610: Admission Nutrients (Part 4 of 6: Consistent Engagement): Important Ingredients for a Well-Balanced College Admission Process—And Life with Dysean Alexander

The College Essay Guy - Episode 610 - Dysean_otter_ai

The College Essay Guy - Episode 610 - Dysean Mon, Jun 02, 2025 3:13PM 1:30:56

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

College admissions, consistent engagement, intellectual curiosity, service to others, collaboration, leadership, community impact, high school experience, college application, extracurricular activities, student involvement, school community, personal development, college fit, institutional priorities., College essay, one-off activities, passion, downtime, consistent engagement, change of heart, leadership, intellectual curiosity, managing ambiguity, transferring schools, demonstrated interest, supplemental recommendations, college counseling, extracurricular activities, application strategy.

SPEAKERS

Tom Campbell, Dysean Alexander

Tom Campbell 00:00

T

Tom, welcome back to the college sa guy Podcast. I'm Tom Campbell, former Pomona and Holy Cross admission officer, an independent school college counselor, current Community Manager and podcast co host at college sai Today I had the pleasure of connecting with Deshaun Alexander, Assistant Director for West Coast admissions at Lafayette College, to discuss consistent engagement, an important admission nutrient that students should consider folding into their high school experience in some way, shape or form. This episode is part of a multi part series where we explain the concept of admission nutrients in detail and invite admission officers to share context, examples, advice and ways that these nutrients can show up in students processes. Now, what are these admission nutrients? Well, there are a handful of qualities that appear frequently in mission vision and value statements from a range of colleges and universities. Another way to think of admission nutrients are positive character attributes that college admission officers often look for when they're reviewing files. But these nutrients aren't just a means to an end. They help students develop valuable life skills and frameworks to live a fulfilling and purposeful life. Well beyond college, we cover lots of ground in our conversation, including how it's talked about in an admissions office, and how admission readers like Deshaun and his team at Lafayette measure it, how it connects with the other four admission nutrients. So intellectual curiosity, service to others, slash community impact, collaboration and leadership, slash initiative. Tips on translating your own examples of a consistent engagement to an admission officer, audience, inspiring examples of ways that you can explore this nutrient, whether that's through whether that's through your school community, at home, online, or anywhere in between, a series of quote, unquote, but what ifs that? Deshaun and I commonly get asked around consistent engagement, such as navigating school transfers or pivots in your extracurricular interests, and advice for counselors on how to explain the value of this nutrient to students and families. We also get into Beyonce, Bollywood burgers and body positivity, so it'll be consistently a good time see what I did there. But first, let's meet Deshaun, counselor by day and stand comedian by night. Deshaun Alexander is a first generation college graduate of her sinus College where he earned a BA in media and communications while being an all Conference football player. After his first year as an admissions counselor at Albright College, he served as the Assistant Director for middle school engagement at Moravian Academy in Pennsylvania, allowing him to gain additional knowledge on high level high school curriculum and communities. After six years of working at Lafayette College, he's been able to work with Army ROTC recruitment, posse selection, and has covered territories from all over the globe, spanning from Long Island New York to Southern California, where he now serves as the Assistant Director of West Coast admissions. We hope you enjoy the conversation. You

T

Tom Campbell 03:03

all right. Daishon, so good to be with you today, this Monday morning. How are you

D

Dysean Alexander 03:07

doing? Well, Tom, thanks for thanks for having me on. Excited to be here. Oh, absolutely.

T

Tom Campbell 03:11

After, after. We met through NACAC, the GWI conference. Just for those of you tuning in, it's a diversity, equity and inclusion and admissions conference where the two of us connected and loved your energy, loved your vibe, and also love your wisdom that you have to share with our audience. And I know I think they're going to love what you have to share as well. Thank

D

Dysean Alexander 03:30

you. Thank you. Now that was a great, great connection. GWI, I think is a great conference. So anybody listening out there, if you want to attend it, make sure you go to it. We went. It was in New Orleans, so we were double spoiled with then having not only good informational sessions, but great food afterwards. But yeah, being able to get connected with you Tom, and being able to hop on this podcast to share some of my wisdom, I was also excited about,

T

Tom Campbell 03:51

yeah, New Orleans, great, great place too. I'm actually considering going for Mardi Gras this year again. So I've definitely caught the itch. So great to meet you at DWI. And yeah, why don't you tell the folks who are tuning in a little bit about who you are and how you got to how you started to work at Lafayette, and just a little bit about Lafayette as well, for those who are tuning in who haven't heard of it before, yeah, yeah.

Dysean Alexander 04:12

D

So hello everybody out there. Dyson Alexander, I am currently the Associate Director for West Coast admissions and ROTC liaison. Wow. And it's cool to understand that at Lafayette I've been here go back and redo it, because I'm thinking of my intro, and I'm like, I know this intro by heart. Hello, everybody out there? Yeah. So Dyson Alexander, associate director of West Coast enrollment here at Lafayette College, taking on this new role of being a regional rep. This is the eighth year that I've been in college admissions as a whole, a sixth year that I've been at Lafayette. So it's really cool to have transitioned in a lot of roles at Lafayette. It's also great. I always like to share that I'm actually from the Lehigh Valley, born and raised, so it was always kind of cool to be able to work for a school that's in my community that I always knew about growing up. Maybe. Out of school that I wanted to attend because, you know, I wanted to get a little bit away from home when I graduated high school, but a school that I always appreciated for, you know, it's liberal arts approach, but always when I got involved, as far as being a part of the staff, it was cool to learn a lot more about how Lafayette, I think, truly is this best of both worlds, kind of place and a school that I think, as a student, as a professional, as a person, it really speaks to me. So I know we gonna talk about this consistent engagement, but it's always cool. As far as at Lafayette knowing that collaboration is a big thing that we're a part of, and I've always been somebody that loves to collaborate, we're a smaller size school that's liberal arts focused, but has a bit accredited engineering. You know, we're 10 to one student teacher ratio, with about 2700 students, but have division one athletics. So we pride ourselves on kind of be in this, this best of both worlds. So a school where, you know, students can get involved with multiple things, they can do what we call, discover the power of and a lot of other schools out there may take you or this or that. We're like, nope, do it all. Do it all, which is awesome. But with my time here, I've definitely been able to get super involved in the community.
 And not only working in the admissions office, being our Army ROTC liaison for the students that go through our steel battalion program, I was able to help out with being an advisor to ABC, which is our Association of Black collegiates. And just as a little fun fact for y'all out there before I transition to the west coast and as a regional representative, I was the Lafayette mascot for two seasons. So if y'all go and watch some clips of Rory at the Lafayette versus Lehigh 2021 football game, you might recognize some of the moves in there. You might recognize some of the moves in there. But I, but I very much. Enjoyed being a part of this community. I've definitely appreciated the knowledge that I've learned in that process. And you know, from from East Coast to West Coast, I've always enjoyed talking about Lafayette, and I think the value that we have so so I'm excited to be here today.

T

Tom Campbell 06:52

Well, I'm really glad that you shared that factoid, because I too have that in common with you, of being a mascot for No way. Yeah. So when I was so I went to Holy Cross, which, you know, it's funny, when you were describing a school that has so many of those best of both worlds elements, I was like Holy Cross, very similar in many ways, because it's a Patriot League school, and athletically we play, actually, I think against Lafayette Division One athletics, but similar size. I think Holy Cross right now is around 2900 students, maybe 3000 and when I was there as a student, I actually my senior year was, I don't even know how I was. I stumbled into this gig, but I was featured. They were doing a news profile for like, the local news in the Boston area of different colleges and universities of different kind of sizes and types. And so they had us in the in the news studio, in the mascot outfits, and so I was the Holy Cross Seder. Yeah? Crusaders, very hot, yes, but very fun, yeah.

So, you know, we're here today to talk about one of our admission nutrients. You know that we at College Essay Guy through our very intensive study of many different colleges and universities, mission statements, but also qualities and values and nutrients, I guess you could say that we feel are really influential in terms of building a healthier life, more broadly beyond college, you know, not just as a means to getting into college, but setting you up for success, no matter what your future path is. And so these nutrients, you know, are in no order or ranking, intellectual curiosity, service to others, leadership and or initiative, collaboration and drum roll, consistent engagement. So,

T

Tom Campbell 09:12

thank you. Thank you. So, kind of thinking about that nutrient, consistent engagement. And you know, when you first heard about this series that we're doing on the podcast and this this term, was just curious to kind of hear how what your immediate thought was when you heard consistent engagement, and how it connects to Lafayette and the college and their your admission process. Yeah,

Dysean Alexander 09:35

D

yeah. I mean, first of all, all these nutrients and sharing this information and breaking it down. I think it was really cool how y'all did that, and given more, you know, fluff to the whole process. I love any way that we can use, you know, food examples and food puns. But I think the biggest thing with consistent engagement that appealed to me is, like, I think this has always kind of been me, even before I got into admissions or work, you know, I was always the student that was well rounded trying to do. Multiple things, staying connected with different clubs, different people, different community initiatives. And that hasn't changed. Even as a professional, you know, right now, I'm consistently engaged with these applications. I'm dedicated to reading and finding the best and the brightest that are out there. But then, as the spring, you know, starts to come up, here, travel picks back up. So I'm in the middle of, you know, reading applications and starting to recruit some of these rising seniors talk with families that are about to approach the college admissions process. But like I said, All my life I've been a doer. So then even outside of that, I'm looking for ways to still change my own individual passions. You know, I do have a lot of wisdom that I share within college admissions, but then I also have a lot of creativity that I share on stages as a stand up comic. So balancing those three things and not just balancing them, but consistently putting in that time towards I know I got to read my app, so I got to make the time for that. I know I got to go to this event because it's my job and I'd like to get paid, but I also want to have this outlet that you know just allows me to always chase and prioritize my own passion so consistently engaging, you know, it's a work, it's a process, but I think for students that are able to find that balance, it definitely there's a lot of value and positives in the college admissions process for that.

T

Tom Campbell 11:13

Yeah, I mean the fact that you still make time for stand up comedy, you know, in in the midst of a very, you know, I can say this from experience as a former admission officer, reading season is definitely can be very draining. So, you know, some people might say like, oh, I'm consistently engaged with, like, my Netflix queue and, like, binge eating when I'm done with reading. Because, like, that's all I have been with for, I think, making time for something that fills your cup, you know, like stand up comedy, and still staying consistently engaged with that as a working professional is a great, you know, kind of really aligns with, kind of our approach at College Essay Guy of building out skills for life that are going to keep filling your cup long after you've graduated from college, or whatever your next path is. So love that you I think,

D

Dysean Alexander 12:02

I think it might actually become easier during application reading season. You know, reading these apps just gives me a whole lot of new material. You know, the jokes kind of, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. These are great applications. They're strong things. But there are definitely, I think, some funny points that come out of applications, some things that lead to me being like, you know what? There's, there's a joke premise there.

T

Tom Campbell 12:21

Oh, the world is your oyster when it comes to source material, you know, I have to say I do think college applications, they do have an element of that at times. I've talked on previous presentations, and I don't know if I mentioned it in a podcast, but about the account memes of admissions, I don't know if you've seen this before, but I do, yeah, for people who work in college admissions and college counseling, it just kind of brings up some of the common points of, I guess, solidarity for people who are kind of working in those roles, and some of the common things that you see, do's, but also definitely some don'ts in applications. I know there's been lots of memes recently about, you know, chat, GPT, ified essay responses with the brackets still in place where it's like insert name of program or something. So you know, it's good to be aware of the common growth that people see, and whether it's told through the lens of humor or in directives through this podcast. I think no matter how you get the message that's valuable for you as an applicant Agreed, agreed any particular recent themes in your stand up comedy that you feel like are.

Dysean Alexander 13:28

D

Dysean Alexander 13:28

So, I mean, travel a lot, so I think it's cool that I've transitioned to being a regional rep now on the west coast. So obviously, you know, working with different students different schools, it allows me to have this opportunity to travel to new areas. So, you know, going between Southern California in Washington, but specifically Seattle in Oregon, but specifically Portland, and then some parts of Vegas, you know, these are new communities that I really haven't spent a lot of time in. So it allows for me to learn a lot new things, hear a lot more stories, but definitely, definitely gives me a lot more material and a lot more things to reflect with when I get on stage. And also just, you know, funny stories that happen myself. I know us as admissions counselors. We try to be cool, we try to be smooth. But there's a lot of things that happen on the road that nobody will know about, but they also make great joke material. You know, I've told many jokes on stage about, you know, the crazy experiences I've had with rental cars, or the times that I forgot these pair of pants, or the times that I've spilled coffee on myself two minutes before I was about to go into a presentation. So like, you know, sometimes my own shortcomings can be the perfect joke as well.

T

Tom Campbell 14:33

That spilled coffee is ty i die Sean, yeah, yes, you kind of actually set me up for that joke earlier. So Ty dot charm, you're here with us today.

D

Dysean Alexander 14:44

Yeah? Tell him I bought the shirt this way. Yeah.

Tom Campbell 14:49

T

So with consistent engagement, we go back to our topic at hand, something that I think is a way that we try to phrase what this means in terms of your high school experience for students. Are tuning in, or parents who are nudging their child to, you know, certain ways of spending their time in high school. Or maybe a counselor looking to equip students in their communities with best practices on how to live a fully balanced, nutritious high school life, consistent engagement. The whole idea behind it is staying the course right and demonstrating somewhere in your application that you're able to stick something out for the long haul, you know, whether that is a particular extracurricular activity or a particularly demanding academic endeavor that you have committed, you know, multiple months, maybe years, to and the value that comes along with being involved in something, some communities, some some initiative for a longer period of time than a short duration.
 You know the idea of, like, tinkering with something, if you're like a serial dabbler, for example, there are people who are like this, and it's not a bad thing by any means. But if you're just, like, hopping from one thing to the next to the next every week, every month or so, there definitely can be some some skills relationships that don't go as developed or cultivated, or moments of collaboration that maybe now aren't as full force as as would benefit you as a person. So thinking about this term and this idea of being involved in things, you know, staying the course with things, how would you say that this translates to Lafayette, particular admission process, and some of the things that you look for in applications when you're reading for that lens of Lafayette fit,

D

Dysean Alexander 16:22

yes, I think specifically with the Lafayette fit, you know, we look for students that you know are going to be engaged on our campus, are going to be active, members of our campus are going to be getting involved. And there's, there's no right or wrong way to do that, just getting involved in the things that are important to you, that you have passion, that you have interest for, is really what we want our students to come to campus and do, because that's, that's what college is about. It's about exploring your interests. But we are a smaller size school, so we pride ourselves on, you know, having these environments where students can collaborate, where, you know, the student teacher ratio is 10 to one. So you know, you're not just going to be a number in the classroom, like you don't have to participate and be involved with what's going on. So I think you know when students are going about their activities and what they're choosing to do in high school, you know that consistent engagement is something that we're specifically looking at. Because if you have that longevity of being a part of a club, or you have this dedication, whether it's, you know, just showing up consistently for these events, or even doing more to seek, you know, leadership and being more than just a member, those are traits that we hope will carry along here at Lafayette. So I think it's always important. And you know, like you said, students that are maybe starting this college process, mostly, mostly, most of them are probably juniors, but I know there's some early birds that start thinking about the cause process earlier than that. So if there's any younger underclassmen, freshmen, sophomores that are listening. I also think the biggest thing to always start with is having the questions early. You know, I mean, what is it that I have an interest for? What is it that I want to be doing? You know, you don't want to get to your junior year and start asking yourself these questions, and then now you've got these only two years of activities, or two years of involvement, you know, ask those questions earlier, so that you can start locking in that longevity, you know, early in your freshman year. But also just that's how you start, you know, I mean, you start with those things that you're passionate about, you start with those things that you know that you have interest for, and then you you allow them to build. You know, you don't have to have all the answers figured out right from the get go, but that longevity piece will allow you to hopefully, either build the answers or at least just allow you to get a lot of backing. Where this may not be the activity that I continue doing in college, but this activity has given me this trait, this skill, which will translate to whatever I start doing in college.

T

Tom Campbell 18:34

Yeah, I love that. I mean, so many colleges and universities can really, I think, connect with this idea of, you know, hey, we're a residential community, and we're looking for students, of course, you know, first and foremost, to have the academic preparation and background to be successful here. That's, you know, a huge priority for us. But also students who are demonstrating that when they get here, they'll be involved in some capacity beyond their classes exclusively and going home. You know, there are institutions out there that are like that, you know, there's, you know, institutions that are primarily commuter schools. I know internationally, it's really common too. So for, you know, international applicants who tune in, the idea of, what do you mean, like show I have, you know, demonstrating fit to non academic areas of involvement, it can be kind of a different cultural journey as well. Yeah,

Dysean Alexander 19:21

D

and that and that fit can, can translate anywhere you go, like, like, specifically here with Lafayette, you know, one of the things that I always tell families and students is, like, know, the schools you're applying to, you know, I mean, know what maybe their institutional priorities are, the things that they're evaluating, the things that they're maybe looking for, you know, in this, this cycle, this time frame, you know, schools, when they set up their international priorities, these are things that are like, you know, on a five year plan or a six year plan. So what are they really focusing on for these next couple years, which will ultimately be your four years of college? So, you know, specifically here at Lafayette, two of our biggest ones that we've kind of laid out is we have this institutional priority of trying to reach carbon. Neutrality, big word there by

T

Tom Campbell 20:03

nutritionality. Neutrality.

Dysean Alexander 20:05

D

Nutritionality, just try to do new stuff, you know. But ultimately, by 2035, you know, we have really put a lot of efforts towards our sustainability initiatives. As far as you know, how we can reduce our carbon footprint, how we can be more green friendly. You know, our Environmental Science and Environmental Studies programs, you know, allow students to talk about environmental issues from two different lenses, you know, one, a very scientific lens, and one a very social lens. So we've done a lot of things to kind of, I think, develop that program. So I've been telling students, hey, if you're interested in environmental science, you know, Lafayette may not have all the classes or, you know, the top tech, but it is a priority for us for the next 10 years, so you will have the opportunity to engage with it. You have the opportunity to be involved in those conversations. And the same thing goes for, you know, some of the athletic advancements that we've been making, we've had our campus priorities, as far as our athletic departments, to make sure that we're growing our students in terms of academic success, obviously, somewhat championships and hardware would be great, but also, you know, focusing on funding our athletics and, you know, making sure that our student athletes have this opportunity to shine on bigger stages. You know, we pride ourselves on being a small school that offers Division One athletics, but at the end of the day, we are still a small school with division one athletics. So as great as our teams are, you know, there's still ways to try to get our students, to hire platforms, to try to have them be more celebrated, especially in a day and age where things have shifted. You know, these students with nil deals and being able to, you know, get some revenue off their names is is a big thing that even at our smaller level of division one, athletics is still a big part of the conversation. So, you know, we have students jerseys who are able to be sold online now, and you can buy them directly, which is pretty cool. So I think just, just knowing what the school's priorities are and knowing, Hey, did they align with the things that I have interest for? Do they align with the things that I'm that I'm doing? Because, like, maybe you didn't think about the school, but if you are president of your recycling club and you are a beekeeper, and you're doing these things that you know are involved in the environment, your application is going look pretty decent over here at Lafayette because it aligns with some of our priorities. So knowing, if there's a school that like, you know you're just going to be a match for and have that fit, like you were talking about earlier, I think those are things where it's like knowing, knowing the school and knowing how you fit with it is very important, as far as knowing that how your application is going to be reviewed.

T

Tom Campbell 22:23

I think, I mean, that's such a gold point to hit on. And no, we're really big at College Essay Guy about being transparent with students and families about the role that institutional priorities play in college admissions. You know, being a nature of how many colleges and universities review files, what they're looking for, what's a particular high priority in this current historical moment of their growth as an institution. And I think really being mindful of that. And you know, when it comes to consistent engagement, it's not as if, like, right, you can turn back the clock and be like, All right, well, now I gotta pick up lacrosse, because something that loves bad needs or like, I, you know, I don't have any demonstration of, you know, sustainability, but I'm gonna, you know, get real late to recycling club less. It's not saying that. And I want to kind of underscore that it should be your values and passions and things that you want to spend your time doing that really excites you, that you really want to be engaged with, that should be driving the bus when it comes to your high school experience, but reaching out to college admissions offices, looking at their websites, where, in your case, I think you've mentioned that both you know this initiative of growth in your lacrosse program, as well as Your sustainability initiatives are public knowledge. They're things that are available, you know, through Lafayette's website, but also through you as a contact, you as an admissions rep who's there to answer questions and help students get a better sense of whether or not this is a school that fits in line with their growth and they're headed as a person. And if there's that mutuality in that match, it's a great idea to apply to places that you know, from firsthand testimonial or from a website, from from a college, that there is going to be recognition and validation of that consistent engagement, that you've been a part of.
 That distinction there is really important to underscore is you can't carve out a high school path with a college's institutional priorities in mind, because they are shifting. They're fluid. They're not going to stay the same every year, but to have a college list, you know, where the things you consistently engage with are things that they happen to be. You know, the things that you're selling are things that they're buying, and this, in this moment in their history, that's a very smart application process in my eyes. Yeah,

Dysean Alexander 24:40

D

yeah. It's just, it's just trying to set yourself up for success. And I think one of the things that we were chatting about, you know, before we got on here, we had a little behind the scenes conversation everybody, but it was cool to understand, you know, reflecting back on my journey before I got into college admissions, when I was back in high school, you know, these were a lot of same questions that I asked myself, and I think it's, you. Time has changed in a lot of big ways where, you know, I think the way that I was doing things earlier on, or the way that I went about my college process, you know, if I can go back and do it with the knowledge that I have now, or if I could be in this day and age as a high school student, there's, there's a lot of different ways that I would approach it. I've told students, you know, if you don't know what you want to do, or even if you do know what you want to do, always lead with your interests, and then always lead at what you're good at. So, so I made the unfortunate choice of trying to lead with what I was not so good at. And, you know, attending a school that was well known for their sciences, even though I was not a strong science student, but I had this desire to, you know, go and do physical therapy, you know, stay close to athletes, all those things. And ended up, you know, going to a school as it had strong STEM programs. But then when I realized that's not the career field or the major that I wanted to be in anymore, and I switched to the media and communications department, this school was no longer a stronger school for me. And it's this thing of if I would have led with my interests, and even if I would have went to a school that was still strong in STEM but I led with, you know, I also have this interest for videography, which I was doing in high school. I have this interest for public speaking and performing, which I was also doing in high school. You know, I might have also learned about schools that had those stronger programs, so that if there was that opportunity for me to switch, I knew I wasn't switching the type of experience I was getting fully or, you know, I wasn't switching then the type of resources I was able to have access to. So so knowing a lot about that school and knowing a lot about yourself can allow you to just be in that good fit, in that good situation, but also understanding the value of how activities have changed. You know, me in high school, I was a big gamer. If anybody out there is on the Overwatch, feel free to add me. We can squat up. But it was this thing where, you know, that's something I had a big passion for, that I enjoyed, that I felt as though, allowed me to build a lot of community. You know, through the gaming community, you're still getting connected with people. You're still able to show a lot of creativity through how you express yourself, but it is something that I think, when you are a gamer and you're involved in it, you know, you still are able to learn a lot of skills that are transferable. And when I was in high school, it wasn't looked at that way, but now we've definitely segued into this day and age where students can really do a lot of personal activities or things that are just interest to you, and they can translate or be read in a different way. So I think always trying to lead with those interests, and just understanding how they're going to translate to the college admissions world or just translate to college in general, is important for students to know, like the game, the game has literally shifted, absolutely,

Tom Campbell 27:25

T

I mean, that's such a great point. And I think the concept of translation, you know, translating things that you've been consistently engaged with to an audience that is coming to this application process from a different place, right? Like, obviously there's, you know, just the difference of age, right? So when I was thinking about video games, you know, and I think we're actually kind of similar, similarly aged, I would say guessing. So when I was, you know, growing up, video games were definitely seen as kind of like, more of like, a supplementary hobby, thing that you do outside of more formal, quote, unquote, engagements or areas of involvement. And I think you know something that both of us have, I think, come to understand from having worked in admissions, you currently and me, you know, in the past five years or so, is this idea of students being involved in these very layered gaming communities that involve multiple skills, qualities, values and interests and help students, give students an outlet and a space to build those out over a sustained period of time. So, yeah, I'd love for you to talk just a little bit more about kind of, this idea of translating, you know, things that in your world that you're living in, and the water you're swimming in, feels so natural and so intuitive. But to this audience member that you don't really know who is reading your application, I don't know if they're an audience member, but this, this audience you know, who is coming to try to get to understand you and how you spend your time better. It may not be this immediately, you know, this immediate click or this immediate resonating area they may not, might not be as lucky and get shot as their reader for what was the game that you mentioned? Overwatch. Overwatch, Overwatch day. I'm like, I don't even know what that is, right? So you know, and I'm an AO at another an admission officer at another school. I don't know if I would be able to understand the scope of what Overwatch entails, or what you gained in terms of how it's helped you develop, unless you frame it to me in a way that's digestible. Let's see. I'm trying to keep the food puns going. I love it. I love you say it on brand. Yeah. So what are maybe some what are some examples, maybe, of game, game oriented students who have been able to demonstrate this, this nutrient of consistent engagement through their applications, and have done so in a way that resonates with, you know, people on that other side of the desk the reading end,

Dysean Alexander 29:50

D

yeah, yeah. So, I mean, perfect example, you know, when I came to Lafayette and I was doing my interview process for the job, one of the things that they do in the high. Hiring Process is you have to do a presentation. And the presentation could either be about Lafayette or college admissions related, or it could just be anything you want to do a presentation on. And I actually did my presentation on on video games, and I had talked about the importance that, you know they have to me, the skills that I've learned from them, not only being able to express myself creatively, but also building community. The game was a big thing that kept me and my best friend in touch. You know, when he moved from Pennsylvania to California and we were now state coast to coast apart, you know, we played the games to keep in touch. So I think there's a lot of value that I've always seen from video games. But, yeah, if somebody is not familiar with the video games, and they go and they read your application, you know, it's still important to convey, you know, these are the skills that I'm actually learning when I do these games.
 Now, this is also, let's I want everything to understand that students y'all have to understand, really, the level of dedication, and be honest with yourself about, is this a priority? Is this having the transfer? Because if you just playing some games, leisure, in your downtime, this is not what we talking about. This is for if you have put in, you know, that same level of dedication that you could put into something that's a personal activity that like gaming, something that's a little bit more solo, or even like, you know, the influencer scope, the YouTube channels, these Instagram, Tiktok pages that now come up, like, there's a lot of time and dedication that comes to growing and building that frame. That can also be the same thing as far as if you're president of a club or involved in something that's a school activity. So showing us how you've put in more than just the average like this. This is not just a game to me. This is something that is an important part of how I learn and how I grow and how I develop in this way or that way. Any other ways of that, any other ways like that. I think specifically, you know, we'll talk about gaming, but then I'll give another example for a student that did kind of the influencer route. I think this is where I said understanding the day and age. So when I when I did games, they were very much of a solo activity. But now any game that you play has an online function to it. There's a lot of communities, like for Overwatch or even bigger name games, like League of Legends, World of Warcraft. There's now discord pages where you can join and connect with people that are even further out. So there's ways that, you know these games can now just not be a hobby that you're doing, but they're ways that you can really build community where you can really get deeper involved. There's, there's comic cons that are dedicated to video games now. There's, there's eSports programs that colleges have created where they're funding students that play games. So there's ways that you know, if this is something that really is important to you, you can put more time and dedication into it to show those additional skills that are going to be transferable and still beneficial for a college. And one student that I think did a very good job of that, that I recruited as about three years ago now, maybe before, because right, right before the pandemic, and he was a influencer, not for himself. He had actually started an Instagram page for a Bollywood actress that he was a big, big fan of. And he had started, you know, a page, a fan page for them, had grown followers, I think by the time he was in the admissions process, it maybe had like 80k followers, something like that. And then by the time he came to Lafayette, spoiler alert, he had actually grown it over to 100k followers. But this was something that, you know, when he was telling me about it, when he was detailing it to me, I was able to see, like, you know, this is not just an Instagram fan page. Like, first of all, this is a Bollywood actress, so you have never been able to go see this. And I'm not sure maybe they did see him one time, but this is somebody that you know you're not seeing on the regular. So this is research. You have to research what they're doing, what's going on across seas. This is something that you have to think about. The posts that you're making. You have to engage with the people that are now on your post, because you are, you are the manager of this fan page, and now that it's gotten to this growth, people are looking to you to keep them engaged and keep them in touch with the information. And then you know, once you get to that higher level where you know, maybe it gets you to an influencer status, where now business has reached out to you, or these other things. So there is value that comes from building these online platforms. But just understand that it's still important to show how much work you've put into these online platforms, just like you would put work into a in real life activity. Is that the way you say it in real life? I, I R, L, that's how the kids say it, yeah.

Tom Campbell 34:13

T

Well, they, they did for a while. I don't know if it's anymore, but if you knew a relic of the past here, this is a history lesson. No, I mean, I think that I this, what you just described to me, the kind of influence, or idea of consistent engagement and managing an online presence, whether that's a discord, you know, community for games, or these Instagram or Tiktok pages that have a particular interest connected to them. I've, you know, read several applications and work with several students who have a similar form of consistent engagement. That is, you know, quote, unquote, their baby, right? It's the thing where, if you were to ask them to reflect back on their past, past few years of their life, you know, what's taken up the majority of their time? I have one student in particular that I can think of who I was, her college counselor when I worked as a counselor. Were in Seattle and her big area that she spent so much of her time doing, and the more I talked with her about the more I was like, you have gained so many valuable skills from this, like all the ones you listed off the Bollywood page of research and communication skills, of, you know, communicating back and forth with people who sometimes you get DMS, and you're like, I'm not sure what your question is, so I'm trying to get a sense for how I can help you and provide you with information that is obviously really important to you if you follow this. This is someone who you know brings you joy in your life. For my student, it was body positivity and through digital art. You know, she was a digital artist, and she had done art, you know, for many, many years, consistently, yeah, hashtag, consistent engagement in her own, you know, in her own time and through classes, things like that. But the more she started to share out her art publicly on her platform page, the more of a following she started to gain. She started to get requests for commission, you know. So for her, it was actually psoriasis. Was something that was a big, you know, personal pain point and an area of self love that she really, she really needed to work towards. So her art really explored a lot of themes around self love, body positivity, and it started with her own connection to this, you know, medium, and to this, this way that she was expressing herself through her own, you know, kind of hobby, but the more that people resonated with, you know, the intentionality of what she was doing and how meaningful it was to her as a person, the more other people were like, hey, like, do you do commissions? Do you also, do you know, other kind of common challenges that people have with accepting themselves, accepting their physical appearance? So she started to kind of really branch out and expand and produce more art covering more important topics, connected to people feeling confident in their own skin, and that translated to commissions that she started to pick up with, kind of social justice oriented art movements in the local Seattle area, so many connections that kind of she was able to gain and foster when it comes to relationships through this platform that she was consistently engaging with. And, you know, they say sticking, you know, staying the course with something is the way to kind of get, you know, your follower account to keep going up and up. You know, if you talk to anyone who works on social media, it's posting every day. You know, as one of the key metrics of statistically improving your chances of getting that following that you may be aspiring towards.
 So, yeah, that. I think that's awesome story, too. I love that, yeah. I mean, and she's amazing, and now she's actually had a really cool, arts oriented and management class that kind of combines art and technology at USC, and really her, you know, work with digital art that was a big piece of her, I think, communicating that alignment with that very specific program that's out there for her. So, yeah, I think, you know, cultivating these, these skills and relationships through less formal ways, quote, unquote, is definitely something that we see more and more. And I'd say this generation of students on the other side of the coin, you know, I think there's definitely something to be said for the immediate community that you're a part of when it comes to your school. You know, whether you attend an online school or a traditional brick and mortar one, there is a lot to be gained by consistently engaging in some way, shape or form, with the immediate community that you're spending. You know, you know, three or four years, and depending on if you transferred or whatnot. So what can you kind of say about the distinction there of consistently engaging with that community immediately surrounding you and and how maybe you're looking for evidence of that, or what that really communicates to you about students when you see that, you know, some form of consistent engagement in the immediate community that they're a part of. Yeah,

Dysean Alexander 38:43

D

I think one first and foremost, you know, engaging in your school community does not mean being the top dog in your school. I think all students sometimes mean that what they want me to do is be president of my class and captain of this sports team and valedictorian, and if you can be all those things, fantastic, but realistically, you there can only be one for each of those categories. So like, especially if you go to a school where there's, there's a lot of people like that is that is putting pressure on yourself that, yes, shoot for the stars, aim high. But understand that when it comes to engaging with your school and what's available at your school. We just want to see that involvement, and we want to see it consistently, and we want to see it around the things that are important to you, you know. So another good example, I had the school that came and visited one time at Lafayette, and a student in the front row had this really dope jacket. It was colorful, had flowers, all these patches, and I asked about it, and they had actually said that they knitted it themselves, and they were president of their school's yarn club. And I'm like, That is That is great. That is fantastic. You know, that is something where it's like, I'm sure nobody out here is bragging about being President of their yarn club, but what you just showed me is dedication, which you showed me is great creativity. Me, what you showed me is that you're able to not only be a part of your school community, but step up and be more than a member. You know, it doesn't matter if you would have said yarn club or recycling club or whatever. I'm pulling those traits that I need to see from what you are just getting involved with, what you're just doing, the thing that you like to do, and trying to do it on a bigger level. And I think that's, that's the biggest thing too, when it comes to that school engagement, is it's one just getting involved in your school community, you know, those passions that you have, and finding those ways that you can be about it, but then ultimately, also thinking, you know, how can I make impact here? I mean, how can I do something here at the school that is going to impact, that is going to create, is going to change. So there's the other examples of sometimes students are like, well, what if my school community doesn't have what I'm looking for? Maybe, maybe you can start it. You know, there's a lot of ways to start clubs that students can do. There's a lot of ways, when we see that, you know, students have founded a club at their school, that that shows a big chunk of initiative too. You know, there's not going to be a lot of depth, maybe, because when you found that club, you know you still then have to develop all right, what are we going to do? What maybe trips can we do? So there may have not been a lot that came after that, but you taking that initiative to make that impact is still a big thing. So I think you know, when you think about the school, the specific school related activities that students can do, you know, there is that question of consistent engagement, but also the impact that I'm having with these programs, absolutely.

T

Tom Campbell 41:24

And I think something that you touched on that really is a big source of tension, I think for students who feel like they need to do it, all you know, with their high school experience, to be a competitive college applicant. But I think something you really touched on that is a point that I've, you know, seen from my admissions career as well, is this idea of quality versus quantity, you know, and if you talk to people in admissions, they constantly reiterate the importance of engaging more deeply in activities, versus kind of feeling like you need to have this whole portfolio of every color of the rainbow of ways spend your time. And in my, you know, in previous podcast episodes that I've done, I'm just gonna trip on my words there. So in previous podcast episodes that I've done, I've underscored how even the most, I'd say competitive, you know, college applicants who are the biggest leaders in their school community, typically aren't engaging with more than three maybe four activities in a really deep and meaningful way. Maybe they have a few, what we call like one off activities, which I'll get get to. Spoiler alert, we're going to talk about this a little more as the as the episode progresses. But this idea of you just don't have the time to engage with, you know, a handful of activities on one hand, even though there might be, you know, 10 spots on the Common Application for activities when we were kind of doing our little preview or kind of our pregame huddle talking about episode, you let me know that Lafayette's actually part of a pilot program of only evaluating, I think it was six activities on a student's application. So, yeah, it's not that, yeah.

Dysean Alexander 43:01

D

So we actually have made, I'm not sure if other schools do this, but we made the decision to prioritize the top six activities that students put on their common application. So you can always list more than that, but really what you put in most slots, one through six are those things that we're going to take as this is the most important to you, or these are the things that you're looking to continue at college, or these are the things that, hey, I've spent the most time on throughout my high school 10 years. So really prioritizing, what are those top six things that students list and then for the pilot program. So we're actually on the pilot program through the Common Application to have the non traditional activities listed on the Common Application when students apply to us. So what this means is that students can choose from, I think it's about six different categories, but they're highlighting more of the non school related activities that are still important to a student's livelihood engagement. Let me go back into that more so just prioritizing non school related activities that are still important to a student, and maybe, you know, I've taken a lot of time and dedication, but are not necessarily, you know, directly school related. So examples of these could be if you work a part time job or take care of an elderly family member, or even if you are a translator or your family or your parents, like these are things that show a lot of skill, a lot of dedication. Obviously, are going to take a lot of time, but they show that, you know, these are activities that still make you accountable, they still make you a leader, they still allow you to have these traits that you know we're going to look for in the college application process.
 But really, really prioritizing those top six activities allows us to tell students, like you said, it's not important about how much you do. It's more so important about what you're doing and why you're doing it. And if you can convey that to us and tell us, you know, these are the things that are important to you, and these are the things that are going to make me not just a great student, because, you know, we're a selective school, I think I'll quickly just jump back to when we were talking about, you know, knowing the schools you're applying to, you know, if you're applying to these selective schools, academically, we know pretty much everybody's probably going to be on par. So this is why. The activities at these selective schools do become more important, because it's we know you're going to be solid in the classroom. We know you're going to be able to get the work done. All the applications that we have are strong applicants. But now it's that question of, where are you going to make that impact beyond the classroom, you know? Where is that engagement going to happen? Where are you going to be able to get involved in our activities and the spaces that we offer for students to go ahead and collaborate and engage, and I think that's the really important thing, that why we look at those top six activities is because we want to know that. We want to know, regardless if it's Student Government, speech and debate, the yarn club, the pet resource, rescue Foundation, whatever it is, if those things are important to you, and you're prioritizing those. And these are the things that you said, Yep, this is what I plan on continuing to do, and this is what I'm looking for when I come to your school like we want to know those things more so than this is how much I've done, you know? It's really prioritizing, you know what? Why is this important? And how will this translate?

T

Tom Campbell 45:59

Yeah, that the the knowing your why piece is something that I've really drilled home about in a lot of YouTube videos, webinars, podcasts, content that I've worked on at College Essay Guy. And one kind of signature College Essay Guy exercise that has been around for a while is something that we call BBs. So it's the best extracurricular activity brainstorm I've ever seen. So that's the acronym, squeeze,

D

Dysean Alexander 46:23

quite, quite a mouthful. Bees are definitely better babies.

Tom Campbell 46:27

T

Is it's, it's not for it's not for little kids, even though it sounds like babies, it's, it's the idea of, kind of, so many students will kind of stick with just giving the play by play is what I call it, of like the what, of what they do. But very much, I think, neglect giving the reader, on the other end a window into why it's important to them, what you've learned from it. So it's a quick exercise, but pretty much for any activity that you're involved in, we ask students to put together a chart, and we'll include this in the show notes for the episode, but basically, you put down the name of the activity, and then in five columns in the chart on a Google Doc, you share what you did in that activity, problems I solved, lessons learned or skills I gained, impact I had, and how I applied what I learned to other areas. And it's not to say that every single activity that you're involved in, you know, you have an equal amount of words or things in each of these columns, but ideally, these are, you know, ideas of some of the questions that an admission officer is asking themselves when they're looking at something like an activities list, or when they're learning about how you spent your time through some of your essays in your application or reading about them through recommendation letters. So kind of being really thoughtful about, you know, filling out, kind of these, all these buckets, when you're thinking about how to communicate your most meaningful areas of engagement to admission offices, is something that we've found students to have a lot of success with when they're reflecting back on how they spent their time and why it's important, why it's important to them.

D

Dysean Alexander 47:54

Yeah, and I think, I think the bigger thing too, this is great that you have this, and I'm definitely going to steal it from the show notes afterwards. Please

T

Tom Campbell 48:02

do yes, that's what it's all about. It's awesome.

D

Dysean Alexander 48:04

No, I think. But I think this also allows students to, you know, ask themselves these questions of, you know, if you're reflecting back on your activities and you're feeling as though I don't know how to fill these categories, or maybe I don't feel as though I actually had enough impact, you know, I mean, I was president of this, or I led this, or I was involved in this club, but we maybe really didn't have a big, impactful moment, or we didn't do this, you know, then, then, how can you maybe create those things? Or how can, how can you do them yourself? Sometimes, like students exist, you know, not. We're not going to keep dating ourselves back and forth because we're both still hip in the game. But I think students nowadays have so many resources that they can utilize. You know, there's there's so many ways that students can utilize these tech that's available to them. They can use these online platforms to develop your activities beyond what the school may offer, or beyond what you've been actually able to do in real life or in person with your other peers, or whoever is involved with the club organization, if it's a school or community club, you know, sometimes they're just limited. You know, your school may not have the resources for you to do this, this cool research. Or, you know, there may not be a beekeeping club actually, in your neighborhood or community, because you live in Alaska where bees ain't really popping like that, you know, but this is the passionate thing that you maybe have always wanted to get involved with. And I think students nowadays live in this area where you can always enroll in YouTube University and, you know, get the information on how to put this together, or you can always join a discord community of beekeepers who are always talking about bee related activities or ways that you can even, maybe even build your own Is it a bee farm, or is it bee house? Wait, what's the proper terminology for for a beekeeping space,

Tom Campbell 49:50

T

a beehive, which is behind side note, shout out to the beehive. Beyonce Grammys were just yesterday, so you're now knowing when we recorded this episode. Episode, but shout out to the beehive for for making history there. So a whole lot, whole lot of buzz, whole lot of buzz. But understanding that, you know, there are now new resources that can put these additional communities, or these additional I lost my train of thought there to do understanding that now there are these additional resources available to students, you know, literally in your pocket, that you can just go and get more information on these things that maybe are not available to you or you just had difficulty trying to figure out. So I think students understand that there's opportunity to always add, and there's always opportunity to create. Nowadays is very important. I'm like one of the stories that I'm thinking about, a student who was looking to apply to our engineering program. You know, they had the opportunity to go and do research. They had the opportunity to do some summer summer programs, but their school was limited and, you know, just the hands on pieces that they could do. So, you know, they didn't really have, like a maker space. They didn't have, like, a truly in depth engineering curriculum where they were learning to direct courses. So they decided to, one weekend, turned their regular old bike into a motorized bike. They they went on YouTube, you know, they saw how the steps is done. They got the information because, you know, now YouTubers, they same thing that we gonna do, put the information in the show notes. So they were able to go and figure out, hey, this is the package that I have to buy from Amazon that gives me the whole kit. They ordered that. And then they spent a weekend, you know, turning their bike from a regular bike to a motorized bike, and they added that then to their college application, and that allowed them to have that depth. I mean, that allowed me to say, you know, not only has a student done this research and had these opportunities, but they then took this additional initiative step to develop something that wasn't available to them, you know, to be able to get this research opportunity, to be able to get this hands on engagement, to be able to create this thing that unfortunately, they just wouldn't have had the opportunity to create through their school.
 Yeah,

Tom Campbell 51:50

T

we're, we're really big on college. Jessica guy, on the value of, you know, cultivating being a self directed learner, and not necessarily only sticking to, you know, what's convenient, you know, maybe what's immediately available in your school, because we've all read, you know, applications from students who come from lots of different educational backgrounds, environments, contexts. Some have lots of niche bells and whistles included in the school, and many don't. So I think that idea of, you know, taking advantage of the resources that are available to you, but also knowing that there are lots of options beyond the immediate. You know, what's in front of you is a big tip that we want to, kind of might, as Ethan says, meme out there, to to our audience, and something else that you touched on, you know, it's funny. You were talking about beekeeping, and I brought up this example several times, but I think it's a great segue to, you know, our other admission nutrients and kind of how, just as with, you know, dieting and being when you're a dietitian, you know, you if you talk to someone, they're like, you can't just be all protein all day. You know, maybe you have some bulking goals that you're working on, but you still need, you know, you still need the carbs to keep you fueling and keep you awake and keep you moving. You still need fat. You know, that's still something that you need as well. There's also micronutrients, vitamins, minerals that all fund or all fall under these umbrellas. So, you know, we're also really big on trying to with these episodes. Talk about how these admission nutrients don't exist in vacuums. It's not like, Oh, this is my intellectual curiosity club, and this is my service to others. Example, you know, right? There's overlapping connections that sometimes you know, a good question, for example, to ask yourself is, how has the area that I have demonstrated consistent engagement with how has this form of consistent engagement possibly influenced or helped me cultivate these other nutrients that are also a part of who I am. So with the beekeeping example that you shared, I had a student a couple of years ago who was coming from a high school. He was part of the Alliance school network in LA, which is a network of charter schools predominantly first generation and or low income students who are looking to apply to college post graduation, and his big area of consistent engagement was something that was a little more niche, not really directly sponsored by the school in any way, but it was a podcast that he would put together all about ants. And he loved ants, loved texts, and was like, super into researching them on his own time. And, you know, to go back to the BBS chart, you know, some students might be like, oh, like, dang, column number four is impact I had. And for this student, I remember reading about his aunt podcast in the recommendation letter from his college counselor. And the counselor says something along the lines of, like, you know, he has like, four followers, so we can't necessarily come up here and saying, like, like the Bollywood Instagram you shared. It wasn't necessarily this like rousing quote, unquote success in terms of numbers of people who bought into being a fellow ant nerds, but in terms of these other, you know, columns that are here, problems I solve, lessons learned, skills that I gained, how I applied what I learned, the skills that the student gained through this. Podcast, putting it together, taking the initiative to do that are tenfold. There's so many to list off, and also the idea of like, sticking with something that like isn't necessarily as cool or like, you know, liked by other people. People in college admissions love people who nerd out about what they're into, unashamed and lean into it hard, regardless of how many other people are going to jump on the bandwagon with you, that's not the only metric of success that's out there. So kind of, I think, I think

Dysean Alexander 55:27

D

that's good to know, because it's like, you know, that's the opportunity. That's what college is for. College is that opportunity for you to continue to grow in those things that are important to you know, in high school, you know, you you have to take math, you have to take science, you have to take social studies. You have to take a foreign language, you know, you got to be involved in the school. There's a lot of things that you like just have to do in, you know, your grade school, high school levels. But when you get to college, you know, you'll still have your classes, and you'll still have work. But a lot of the other things that you do between those classes, a lot of the other ways that you engage, a lot of the other ways that you spend your time, is going to be self started. It's going to be based on, hey, what? What do you want to do? What do you want to build here? So it's cool that you know when you develop these things, even if they aren't big in your school community, we're hopeful that you know with those skills that you learn, that passion that you built, you can find it you know in your next four years of college engagement. And I think it's great to understand how that consistent engagement does go into those other nutrients? I know, I know. When you started, you said, you know, that's no particular order, no particular priority. But I'll go on record right now to say that I think, and it's not just because I'm here talking about it, that consistent engagement probably is the number one. And you know, we're not going to give it numericals, actually, let's keep it in the same theme of food. If you redoing the food pyramid with these nutrients, I would say consistent engagement is the base. It's definitely the bottom, because you know, your consistent engagement and being consistent with a program is going to allow you to gain more knowledge, so it's going to go to your intellectual curiosity. You know, if you're involved more consistently with a group, you may, one year, do a fundraiser for an organization, but then be like, Hey, y'all, next year, we can do it this way, and your service to others can grow in a bigger way. You know, obviously you can't just come day one to a group and say, I'm your president. Now this is how we're running things. Like, you have to be a part of things, you know. You have to show, you know, two years of understanding the program, understanding how it runs, and then saying, you know, I'm ready to take on this, this leadership for this club, and take it in the direction I know it needs to go in. And then obviously, I think collaboration just gets better and better the longer you work with people and the more you do it. So I feel as though consistent engagement is definitely that one that can lead to all of the other nutrients being able to grow and get more developed. Because just just the more time you put into something, whether, whether you know which direction you're going with it when you start or not just consistently showing up, consistently putting in that time, will allow it to grow in so many different ways, ways that maybe you did plan for, or ways that you didn't even know it was going to go.

Tom Campbell 57:55

T

Yeah. I mean, I love that kind of showing, like the, you know, intersectionality, I guess, of the nutrient, consistent engagement really is the vehicle I is the vehicle, I'd say, to cultivate the other four in really meaningful and lasting ways, right? And something that you know, my colleague Andy, I'm just going to bring this up because he's, he's a big critic of Malcolm Gladwell, and he has lots of receipts as to why he is even though I found his book to be very probing, interesting. Past couple of years, I've read them, but there's this one section of the book, Outliers, that even now, Malcolm Gladwell has come on record and said, like, oh, like, I wouldn't necessarily say this is, like, hard science, like, you know, set in stone rule, but there's this concept of the 10,000 hour rule being the gateway to becoming a master of any skill, if you can commit, you know, 10,000 hours to it, you're well on your way towards becoming an expert. And so even though maybe that's been debunked, Andy will be happy to hear this, I still do think that that premise of time, you know, being the most precious resource that we have, and the way that you spent your time, even though four years of high school may seem long, it goes by pretty quickly. Yeah, the way you spend it really awfully and again, prioritizing quality over quantity is going to give you arguably more of a chance to cultivate these other nutrients in meaningful ways. I do want to talk though about this kind of balance of activities that you consistently engage with with ones that you do on a more quote, unquote, like one off basis. That's kind of something when I worked in admissions at Pomona, we would there was definitely a clear distinction between applicants who were consistently engaged in some way, shape or form with their immediate community, or something like what we've described before, like, you know, robust online communities through discord, or something along those lines, that has been with them for many months and or years. But then we also had some students who the majority of the way that they were positioning themselves in their application was a series of shorter like one off activities. And by that I mean things like, you know, they did a. Summer program that helped them gain skills in business, which was an area that they wanted to study, and their application was a series of kind of these shorter stints, maybe a short internship, or, you know, something that they did over winter break, you know, week long course. So lots of you know, demonstration of intellectual curiosity, you could argue, but not as much of kind of these other areas of you know, any evidence of a collaboration, you know, working with people for an extended period of time, over multiple months, or witnessing problems and challenges that arose in a club or organization as a member, and then being able to move into leadership roles to be like, All right, I've bared witness born witness to some things that I think are not the best way to run things. And now that I'm, you know, I was, I was in that member position early on. Now that I've risen towards a leadership role, I can reflect back on what didn't go great and use that to influence the way that I lead now, kind of doing a lot of one offs, I think, arguably, can limit your ability to build out those other skills that really count time and wisdom.
 So, not sure if you have any examples or, you know, words of wisdom, just focus about this balance of one off activities, things that are a little more consistent, giving people a roadmap for how to navigate that or communicate that to colleges is would be, I think, be really helpful.

Dysean Alexander 1:01:18

D

Yeah, I think, I think there's obviously pros and cons, you know, with one off activities, and, you know, there's, there's a lot of, I think, understanding the story. If you have a lot of one off activities in your activities list, or that are going to be shown on your resume or your application, you know, just making sure that you're communicating the story. So, like, there's, there's clearly an understanding, if you change schools, sophomore year, junior year, and you just didn't have time to get involved. There's totally an understanding of, you know, this is just what I have the availability to do, because I have other responsibilities. And, you know, I really can't do things until the summertime, or this or that. You know, giving that full story is what's very important to keep in touch with your admissions reps. And, you know, keep us in the loop of, really, what is the fullness of your application? Because it allows us to just have more of that additional context. I think the second initial question that's important to look at is asking yourself, you know, personally, there's, there's three different categories that activities can really fall into. You know, there's, like, these solo activities, kind of where students are engaging in more personal things. There's community engagement. So like, where you're engaging with the greater community, or there's, there's a school engagement, you know. So if these are one off activities, you know, what realms are they showing in that? You know, is this a one off activity that is also just a personal activity? Because, if it's a solo and personal activity, now, you know, you've got this layer where you're not collaborating, there's not a lot of big things. And it's it also doesn't have impact beyond just yourself. If it's a community engagement activity, same thing, you know, we would love to see it be more developed. We would love to see it bigger. But if, but if, this is something that is right in your backyard, as far as your community, and something that you just go to because it's right down the street, all right, we need to talk a little bit about that impact. But if this was a program that sent you halfway across the country, or it was a broad trip, or something like that. You know, now there's more impact to that one off. So if it's community engagement angle, you know, know what benefit that's going to give you. And then the last one, same thing with school related you know, I think one of the biggest questions that one of our family, one of my former colleagues, used to always ask was, if a student does have these one off activities, are they student driven, or are they school driven? You know, there's a lot of schools out here that will create events that give students the opportunity to get community service, or, you know, if you just stay after school and help out with the first grader reading program or something like that, you know, you can get credit for that, but that those are school driven activities that you know definitely you went and signed up for and then participated in, but it's very different than a student driven activity, where you had to apply for this internship and you had to write an essay and you had to email the person and do all those things for this, yeah, one off experience, but that's a lot more initiative from yourself to kind of engage with that activity and to draw it so I think looking, you know, When you know, when you have those one off activities, and asking yourself, those three categories, you know, like, how am I hitting these categories potentially, and then, how am I having impact in those categories? Is something that we'll definitely look at. But I think when it comes to, you know, those one time activities, it's the bigger story of just knowing, you know, what are you then doing with your downtime, and it's still important to show us your passions. So, you know, if these one off activities, I think, for the example that you had said, like, you know, if you're working at a camp every summer and that that's kind of like your one off activities, you know, I've seen that where, you know, these students, even though it's a one off activity, you know, they've said, my first year, you know, I was just a camp counselor, but then by my junior year, you know, I was manager of the activities department, so you still are showing that growth through that one off activity. Or even even deeper, like, if it's something where it's like, this is the club that I go to because I actually went this is a camp that I go to because I actually went to. It helped the editor out and do it a little bit slower. This is the camp that I went to which I. Into as a kid, and, you know, it gave me so much impact and so much growth and development that I wanted to be a part of this and give it back to, you know, future kids and future generations like, you know, that is, that is giving us the fuller story of showing, you know, this is very impactful thing to you. So I think there is ways of just understanding, you know, how is it still important to show your passions through these one offs, as opposed to if you're just trying to do these one off internships, because you are saying it's going to look good on my college application, then unfortunately, that's not showing that passion, that's not showing that dedication. That's when they really do become you're just trying to collect these little activities and then put them on your application. You know it's important to make sure that those one offs still show your passion, still connect to your story and all those details. But then, on the contrary, the next question I'm going to ask, if you know, I do see these one off activities, is okay, what were they doing in their downtime? And that's why I said earlier, you know, some students, they might just not have that time to get involved. You know, you may have a lot of home obligations. Or, you know, the things that you want to get involved with just may not be available, or the things that you want to be involved with just don't align with your schedule. And you know, those are all truths to it, but there has to be something that you're doing your downtime is where it goes back to understanding there's a lot of resources that are available. There's a lot of ways to still create even when you're not involved with those things. There's ways to expand. So if students, maybe you do an internship for the summer, and then, you know, you came back and you were like, I took this summer camp where, you know, we worked on developing our own websites, and then after the camp, I've kept developing my website, and I change it every month, or I change it every season. You know, now, that was a one off experience, but it has become, still, a consistent activity that you're doing. So I think showing us, you know, what you're doing in that downtime outside of those activities is also still very important. And like I said, it's as much as it is just, hey, I do these activities, the story behind everything is so much more important.

Tom Campbell 1:06:52

T

Yeah. I mean, great, great segue to our next point, which is about, you know, speaking of telling that story, so much of you know this, the admission process is communicating how your four years of high school has been in a succinct, digestible way to someone on the other end. And it's not always very intuitive, right? It's not unless, I always say, unless you've been an admissions officer and been through the rhythm of reading, you know, at some colleges, you know, 60 applications a day if you're doing team reading, or, you know, it's other colleges, if you're reading individually, maybe it's 20 to 30 a day, regardless reading that volume of students coming from lots of different schools and backgrounds and environments, you you know, start to kind of know how some of the opportunities in an application can be strategically used to fill in those blanks or fill in those question marks that an admission officer might be asking themselves if they haven't had the luxury of getting to know you personally or having a more in depth conversation with you, which many of them don't have that luxury because of the speed and the efficiency that they need to balance, you know, with the nature of their job. So on that vane, a lot of times, you know, I'll talk with students, especially on the college counseling end, and I'll get a series of but what ifs from them. So I'd love to kind of go through a few common but what ifs that usually are common follow up questions from students and families related to consistent engagement. So one, one, big one would be, what if I had a change of heart midway through high school, right? I started off in high school thinking, this is where I really want to spend my time and my energy. But then I had this epiphany, or this class that I took, or light bulb moment, or I did, you know, this summer program that really changed the trajectory for me of how I want to spend my time in the second half of the high school. Is it bad to have a lot of these activities I used to be consistently engaged with no longer, you know, active. They know they're no longer the green bubble on TM or slack or whatever, like they're doormat. Is that bad?


Dysean Alexander 1:08:51

D

No, no, I think, I think it's still one. I think it's still great to talk about those things. We have a lot of students who maybe it's like an athletic one. Is one that comes to my mind, first, like students that maybe started doing gymnastics or like a swim program early on. And those are, those are sports that definitely take a lot of time, a lot of commitment. There are sports that also, if you're involved in, like a travel team or something, you know, they can, they can burn, burn you out, you know, you, you can do one too many flips and be like, Yeah, I'm dizzy now. So that is totally understandable, but still letting us know about that time. You know, I mean, is important because it's still showing your dedication. It's still showing you know, how much commitment you did put in, how much time, how much energy. So just because you had that change of heart, don't think that now that dormant activity is isn't something that you can lead with. When you still lead with it, we're still going to pull the traits out of there. But I think if you do have that change of heart. It's important to one, like I said before, communicate that story. So tell us why, because we're obviously going to look at that and be like the students stop then activity junior year and then switch gears. Why was this something personal? Was this something at home, like, like, we always want to know context, but also then just transitioning it into what? What is that new thing? Then I think it's okay if you have a change of heart and you stop one activity and start another one, but I think it's going to be very unfortunate if you stop an activity, and that's it, you know. So if so, if you do have that change of heart, my mama has this saying where she always says, don't jump shit without another boat to jump into. It's very important to know what your next activity is going to be so if you're transitioning, you know, it's still going back to those same things we were talking about, you know, whether it's this activity or that activity, we're looking for that consistent engagement, we're looking for that leadership, we're looking for that intellectual curiosity, you know, all those nutrients and whatnot. So you got to make sure that whatever you transition into, it's still something that you're going to be getting involved with, and something that you're going to have the opportunity to get involved with as well. Because, like I said earlier, transitioning into college, is that opportunity for you to maybe find those communities you didn't have back home, or get more engagement and collaboration with students that also share similar passions. But if you don't have that in your community right now, like, don't stop what you're doing and then just don't do that thing and be like, I'm gonna wait till I get to college to do it. Like, if your community doesn't have that activity, then, you know, you may, unfortunately, just need to stick with the thing that you're doing, just that you can keep that consistency on your record, or at least segue into what is going to be that temporary thing that you're doing right now that still allows you to engage, that still allows you to connect. You know, like I said, if we go back to our beekeeping example, you know, if you're a student in Alaska, and you know your passion is to work with bees or to work more with the environment, and that's why you're only applying to schools in the southeast. So now you've stopped playing hockey, which we're just going to assume, is big in Alaska. You've stopped playing hockey, because that's what all your family did, and everybody that you did. But you you no longer want to be a hockey player. You want to be a beekeeper. Well, don't just quit hockey and then say, I'm going to wait till I get to school in Florida to start working with bees. Think of, okay, what can I actually do here in Alaska that will still give me experience? Like, maybe it's working with some other form of animals. Or maybe it's not working with animals at all. Maybe it's, you know, those bees. I may not know what the place that you hold them in is called, but I know it's made out of wood. So maybe you start getting involved with woodworking or doing something else. Like, there's ways where you can still maybe engage with things that will take you in that direction. But what's more important is still making sure that you have that activities, the engagement the leadership, like, don't give all that up just because you had that change of heart.

T

Tom Campbell 1:12:25

Absolutely, yeah. And I would say just, you know, to normalize for people listening in who are worried about this. I would say, actually, most students have activities that they, you know, put to bed either after their ninth or 10th grade years. It's really common for students to have a moment of reflection and clarity of, you know, I was getting involved in high school. I was looking for ways to build community, and this looked exciting and fun, and it was great while it lasted, built great relationships, but I found myself being more energized, feeling like more galvanized to step into leadership roles or to, you know, kind of work with the momentum of something else that was just pulling my attention more so, and to keep balance in my life, I decided, You know what, I'm gonna step away from this activity that was great while it lasted, to prioritize something that's become more meaningful to me. That's a very normal progression and a very healthy way, I'd say, of having your values and things that you're curious about, things that you're excited by, drive how you spend your time. And that's a great skill set to start to carve out, because even you touch on, you're still making time for a stand up comedy. You know, as a adult, that's a sign of kind of, I think, really knowing the thing that fills your cup, right? That's and, yeah, it's

Dysean Alexander 1:13:36

D

actually cool that you mentioned that, because that was literally a change of heart, how I got into that, so I can share a little personal story to kind of help the students out there too. So actually, what I got involved with before stand up comedy was poetry. My senior year in high school, I took in a poetry class in our English department, and it was a great class. Really, kind of opened my eyes to poetry. And I always, I always like creative writing in general, but that's where I discovered slam poetry and spoken word. So that theatrical more performing, all those aspects of poetry really, really excited me. So I started writing more of that my senior year of high school, and then that's all that I did throughout college. As far as like my creative writing, I was obviously involved in other activities, but I performed spoken word all throughout college, I did it at school events. I did it throughout some of these poetry competitions. I even went to someone like the open mics that were in the Philadelphia area. And, like, was really, really invested. But I got to a point where I did have a big change of heart, and I wasn't feeling as passionate in that field. And then when I transitioned into comedy, you know, it's still in a creative writing lens, but it has just this, this new nuance to it. So understand too, like sometimes changing the activity may not take you out of that whole atmosphere or that realm. It might just be. It might just be a segue to something that's a little different in that field. Like, if you know you love working with animals, but you you're tired of, you know, dogs and cats, because you know that whatever reason that, or maybe you got allergies. Is, maybe it's marine biology. Then how you shift towards, and you got to work more with aquatic animals and things like that. So it's, it's understanding that, you know, the change sometime may not be super major. Maybe it's a little detail that has to change in this. So just understanding that passion, having those conversations, is a big deal,

T

Tom Campbell 1:15:15

absolutely. And I think, I mean that, I think those examples are really aligned with another big what if that we commonly get, which is like, what if, you know, I had to stop doing my activity for insert extraneous reason, right? I had an injury, so I had to step away from my sport, or we lost funding for a certain level organization. So I channeled my you know, interest towards this avenue, instead, at you know, this colleges and actually employers as well. When we did our research on the admission nutrients, we found that something that employers in particular are really wanting to see more in new hires at their companies is this concept of managing ambiguity. So I think, you know, this is becoming less and less, I'd say, of a common thing to see on a lot of applications, because now most of the high school students you're going to be reading applications from weren't in high school during the pandemic, that was middle school, but during the pandemic, we saw a lot of students pivoting how they spent their time because of circumstances outside of their control. You know, it wasn't necessarily an injury. It was, well, the world, the world was injured. And so the world was injured. She was struggling. Yes, and that, I think, is just another area of again, communicating how you pivoted and still were able to cultivate the skills or interests that are, you know, really helped drive you, but through a different lens or in a different frame. So I think that that concept of pivoting is also really great to communicate in your application, if it's relevant to your story, another big what if is transferring schools, right? So, any tips you know students who are worried or anxious about how something like, you know, having to change their environment midway through high school or the last year or so impacts that nutrient of consistent engagement, like, am I? Am I at a huge disadvantage? And the answer is no. But what are maybe some practical tips to offer to someone who's has that big what if around their transfer story, giving them anxiety around their applications?


Dysean Alexander 1:17:07

D

Yeah, yeah. I'll step back real quick to the if you had to stop an activity because of, you know, like longevity, the longevity I stepped back one time to, you know, the other point of, if you have to stop an activity because of some other major factor, you may be outside of your control, happening. And then I'll kind of tie these together, because the first thing also is like understanding that those things you know, maybe out of your control, but always asking yourself, what can you control? You know, I mean, what? What can you maybe do? So another personal example, you know, I actually started doing comedy a year and a half before the world got injured, as you said, and that meant that, you know, there were no open mics to go to, there were no comedy clubs that were really opening, but there were these virtual opportunities that came up. Now, I did not like performing via zoom with comedy. It was very weird to do a stand up comedy performance on Zoom. But what I did do in that time was, all right, well, let me see if there's writing workshops that people are hosting, or, you know, let me see if there's maybe improv, virtually, you know, something different, but it could be something that helps me still develop a skill. So I was able to join, you know, like some online workshop classes and some other things that still allow me to be like, Hey, I can't control the fact that the venues are closed, but I can still control what do I want to learn, what do I want to gain, and how do I how do I find those resources to maybe do that? But another big thing, and this is where I'll tie into kind of the transferring schools, is, do you still have connections from those programs? You know, I mean, if a program ends or you're not a part of it, but you were a part of it for, you know, multiple years, you still had a manager or a director or somebody that was a colleague or a peer that can speak towards, you know, your engagement with that activity, that can speak towards your impact or the value that you had for that program, that organization, that team, that you were a part of, whatever it may have been. So keep those connections strong. You know, there's so many times during COVID where students had applied to a program, and then, unfortunately, they weren't able to do that program. And, you know, they wrote to us and said, I was supposed to go do this program over the summer with research, and unfortunately, got canceled. And I would say, hey, well, reach out to that person that was going to hired you or read your application when you applied, and see if they write a supplemental recommendation for you. Because even though you didn't do the program, there was something that they saw in you that they were like, We need this student. We need them to be a part of our program. So if they can write a quick recommendation for you, those words are going to be impactful, because now you're also in another process where we're trying to be like, Hey, we might want this student. Is there any other insight you can give us onto why they should be picked? And they might be, yeah, we picked them because out of all the people that applied to us, they had this or they did that, so these people can speak towards still how much value you have. And then same thing with transferring schools, you know, those contacts, those teachers, those mentors, your former counselors. These are people that can also still write supplemental recommendations for you. These are people that can still speak towards that impact that you had at your previous school. And sometimes. May be better to speak towards your experiences, because when you transfer schools, you know, especially if you come junior year, your guidance counselor and your teachers, you know they only get to know you really for probably one full year, because that first year, you know you're learning, you're meeting people, you're getting around people don't even who's that kid? Who's that? Oh, okay, cool. Like, that's the learning who you are. So like you know those those last two years after you transfer a school, you may just not have the opportunity to develop those relationships as much as you developed at your previous school. So keeping those connections, keeping those relationships, is still very important, because those people are definitely going to be able to fill in your story and tell some other great things about you and the impact that you were able to have in your past community.

Tom Campbell 1:20:41

T

Absolutely. And speaking of those, those relationships and counselors, you know, I think a great way to close out this episode is going to be some tips and advice for counselors and educators who are supporting students and families with this process. You know, we like to, I call it Jessica guy. We're very grateful to counselors who are kind of like our biggest cheerleaders and ambassadors who leverage our exercises, our resources within their immediate school community. They are our biggest translators, I guess, to the audience that they're working with. And so for counselors who are wondering, you know, how can I help my school community understand the value of consistent engagement? Or what are some ways that I can help them equip themselves for cultivating this nutrient? What are some of the things that you encourage counselors to trickle out as they're as they're doing when they're doing their thing? Yeah,

Dysean Alexander 1:21:32

D

yeah. I mean, first and foremost, I think just like meeting the students where they're at is a big deal. You know, students can start the college process very, very early, but they may not have everything figured out, or, you know, still have a lot more questions. And I think just meeting them where they're at first with saying, like, well, first of all, what are you interested in? What do you like? What are, what are you good at? You know, these are important questions to ask students, because then you can kind of pull out more information, or know what to give them to kind of help them get to that. A perfect example. My god sister is about to start her college admissions process. She's pretty timid, very shy, but she does a lot. She's very active. She's very engaged. So when I was talking to her about college, and, you know, just starting the initial conversation, what do you think about going, what are you in majoring a whole lot of, I don't knows. A whole lot of, I'm not sure you know. So then I transitioned it to and I'm like, Okay, what you you do a lot of stuff, you know, what do you like that you do? And she was like, Well, you know, Girl Scouts is a big thing that I do, and I've been a part of for a long time, and I like that activity. I'm like, Okay, what do you like about Girl Scouts? Do you like the piking and the camping trips y'all do? And that was also a very quick No. She said, I don't, don't really like the nature elements. I was like, Okay, well, what is a part of Girl Scouts that you have to do, that you enjoy. She's like the girls the selling of the Girl Scout cookies. Okay, so you like entrepreneurial stuff. You like a little bit of that business element. You like being able to engage with the community, with selling these cookies and doing all of that, the whole nature and hiking stuff and making your body hurt, that stuff you don't like. But these are the things that you do like. So okay, how have you shown that in other elements your community engagement? So we start the conversation there. Just like, based off the things you like that you've already done a lot of and the things that you know you're passionate about, how can we spill that into okay, this is the paths that are probably kind of beneficial for you. I think obviously understanding for students that the schools that they're applying to, as we said in the beginning, you know, knowing the schools that are out there is important for students. So I think counselors, you know, it's very important that they're aware of what schools are doing, what schools are positive for this, what schools are maybe not so hot for that, because then you can really put students list together, you know, based on their passions, or based on their activities or or based on things that they didn't even know. You know, if there's a school that out there, you know, is really prioritizing students that are trapeze performers, and you know that you have a student that has done gymnastics forever and can walk a tightrope better than anybody like they may not, may not know about that school, but you knowing about that school will help them get connected to programs that will really benefit them, or allow you know what they've been a part of to Have a lot of impact in their college admissions process. But I think the big thing too, is just understanding, you know, telling students that demonstrated interest is important. You know, connecting and engaging with these schools is important. You know, as far as us as admissions reps, you know, the more that we know about our students, the better job that we can do of trying to find reasons to admit them. Because I want everybody to notice, as admissions counselors, as much as you know, we may have to make the unfortunate decisions of you know, who's admitted, denied, wait list, all those things. We are in the business of admissions. We are not in the business of denial. Our job is to try to look for reasons to admit students. And the more that you engage with us, the more you connect with us, the more you keep us in the loop of, what is your story, what is important to you? You know, the better that we can do of finding those reasons to say, Hey, this is why this student should be here. This is why the student is a great fit all those details. So definitely normalize early on. You know, encouraging students to reach out, to ask those questions, to do the research, but to definitely, always, always lead. With their passions. You know? I mean, you want to go to a school, and you definitely want to say, Hey, this is a school that I'm trying to apply to and I'm trying to get into, but at the end of the day, you still want the school to understand why you should be admitted. So make sure that you're leading with those passions, leading with those things that you know you're good at, leading with those things that you have interests at, because it's a two way street in this decision making process. So always leading with those opportunities. As far as this is what I'm looking for, these are the things that I at least know. That I like will allow you to know if that school is also a fit for you.

T

Tom Campbell 1:25:32

Yeah. So I mean, I can't like, plus one, the point about seeing people in admissions as a resource more than I can can't, plus one, and more than I can't, that doesn't I want to, I want to underscore that point very substantially, because that's something that I've noticed there's, and I think it's, I think it's the idea of like, the fear of like, saying something wrong, or saying something that's Saying something that's going to be like, attached to your file and be a detriment to you. Like, I always used to tell students that you know you don't, as an admission officer, you don't have to have, like, a long laundry list of reasons why you deny a student you know the answer can simply be like, not enough. Adding up here doesn't meet with our priority. That doesn't match our priorities, you know, like So the job of someone who's getting landing on your application is not to come up with a laundry list of reasons why you should be denied. They don't need to have a list like that to do their job. What they what they need is evidence from you of why you're great fit for their school or program based on what they've been told is their job and what they've been told to keep an eye for in an application. So the more you understand the colleges that you're applying to and their process, what they're looking for to other people on the other end, even if it's a school that doesn't measure demonstrated interest, you know, Lafayette is a school where it's looked at, right and it's a part of your process. There are other colleges where it isn't as much of this tipping point in a student's application, but even at a place like Pomona, I always would say we didn't, you know, a factor in demonstrated interest into our admission decisions. But as a human being who met students on the road when I was visiting their schools or emailing emailing with them back and forth, I was more likely to advocate for students who I had positive touch points with. And, you know, they've demonstrated to me that they wanted Pomona. They were really excited about it. They for whatever the reasons were, you're still more likely, I'd say, to make a positive impression and apply with more intentionality and awareness of the place that you're stepping into. If you take that step action step of reaching out to an admission officer or to current students at that school as well. So continuing to message that out counselors is something that I think is a big you'd be doing many admission officers a big favor.

Dysean Alexander 1:27:56

D

And one thing I had to that's a benefit for counselors, and this actually goes back to knowing the schools, is encourage students to, you know, apply for additional programs that are at the school as well. So, you know, here at Lafayette, we don't require an arts portfolio to be submitted, but we still always encourage students to go ahead and submit it if they have that work or they have those things. We have about four different programs that students can apply for when they're also applying for admissions. One is dedicated to the arts. Another one is dedicated to business and entrepreneurship, another one is dedicated to stem and then there's another one that I'm blanking on right now, but it's all good. Y'all understand. What I'm trying to say is that these are different programs that students can also apply for and be considered for, but they're going to have a different review process. So they're going to allow you to highlight if business is very important for you, you can highlight some of these things If art is very important for you, you can highlight some of these things, but those applications are then also reviewed by additional resources on campus, so additional faculty members, staff, maybe even professors, so they allow more people to now be a part of your conversation as well. So these are things that you know, even if a student doesn't want to really do that program, or even if it may not be top of their interest, applying for those programs, whether they get admitted or not, will just have more people be a part of the conversation. Allow us to reflect on more that they're doing and and definitely, definitely, definitely, if schools do the you know, these fly in programs, encourage your students to apply for those as well, because that is the opportunity for them to see these campuses, and that is another opportunity for students applications to be viewed. You know, we do ours or our beloved community, and regardless of students are accepted or denied for that program, whether they're invited to campus or not, we still keep those applications on file. And then when those students apply to us, it's like one you showed us double love by sending two applications to us, but also this application shows up some nuances that maybe this application won't, but when we put them together, we now have an even bigger and complete story of who you are. So those additional applications, I know it might be more time consuming, but especially for the schools that may be higher up on your list, they can still go a long way.

T

Tom Campbell 1:29:58

Yeah, that effort. Is definitely, definitely worth it when, when you can show that you're willing to go the extra mile beyond the standard combat submission for sure. All right. Well, good luck with reading comedy. Thank you, and I'll see you when I see you. All right,

D

Dysean Alexander 1:30:12

thank you very much. Tom, enjoy the rest of your day.

T

Tom Campbell 1:30:15

Bye.

Tom Campbell 1:30:21

T

All right, friends, thank you so much for joining Deshaun and I for this episode about consistent engagement. We hope that you found the tidbits and advice helpful as you start to think about your high school process and how to communicate your experiences as effectively as possible to that admission officer. Audience as always, make sure to like and subscribe to the college sai podcast to continue getting quality, vetted, juicy content around the college admission process from some of the most brilliant minds in the profession. Thank you so much. I consistently enjoyed every minute of our conversation, but I hope you did, too. Have a great day. We'll see you on the next one. You.