Show Notes
On this week’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) sits down with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) for Part 4 in our What Colleges Want series to talk about the personal statement. According to the latest State of College Admission report – after grades, course rigor, and positive character traits (see previous episodes), the college essay is what colleges care about most. Tom and Ethan get into:
What is the purpose of the personal statement?
How do you find a topic, especially if you’re not writing about challenges?
Why do I recommend students NOT choose a common extracurricular activity as their main college essay topic?
How do you stand out?
And how do you know when you’re done?
Fun fact: You’ll find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the College Essay Guy YouTube channel.
Play-by-Play
1:38 – What is the purpose of the personal statement in the college admission process?
2:53 – How might students use this statement for multiple schools?
3:48 – Should students talk about challenges they’ve faced in a personal statement?
6:47 – Should students talk about their major or career goals?
8:33 – Where is the best place to discuss extracurricular activities?
10:20 – Should students explain red flags in their personal statement?
11:26 – How can students brainstorm potential topics for their personal statement?
17:56 – What is the structure of a personal statement?
21:11 – How can students stand out?
28:57 – Case Study: What does the process look like from brainstorming to final draft?
35:39 – How does a student know when their essay is done?
38:27 – Is there a place for artificial intelligence in the college essay?
41:47 – have personal statements shifted since the Supreme Court ruling on Race-Conscious Admissions?
44:04 – Why does the personal statement process matter?
49:14 – Closing thoughts
ResourceS
CEG Podcast Episode 404: Race-Conscious Admission Was Struck Down—What Does This Mean and What Can Students and College Counselors Do? w/ Jay Rosner
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:08
Hey Friends and welcome back to the podcast. This is part four in our what colleges want series. And we're talking about my favorite thing, the personal statement. So according to the latest state of college admission report, after grades course rigor and positive character traits, which we talked about last time, the college essay is what colleges care about most. But on today's episode we get into what even is its purpose? How do you find a topic, especially if you're not writing about challenges? Why do I tell students to maybe not write about a common extracurricular activity as their main college essay topic? And how do you stand out? Stay tuned, and I'll tell you get this, we're trying a new thing. And you can find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the college essay Guy YouTube channel, just search, college essay guy personal statement podcast. This one's hosted by Tom Campbell, and our guest this week is me, the college essay guy.
One of the things we talked about is like, what does success look like for you in this process? And for me, there's so much more, it's not about the college application, per se. Sure, that's the presenting thing. But this is really much more about who he was discovering himself to be and how his experiences have led him to this moment. And it's, you know, this is just sort of a sliver a snapshot in time before he goes off to college and beyond. But what is the tumbling forward? Sort of like, this is the latest version of me represented? And then, you know, let that speak.
Tom Campbell 1:38
Why don't we give the folks who are tuning into this podcast today, just a little bit of a high level, zoomed out overview about what a personal statement even is, and kind of what its purpose is in the college admission process? So totally, yes,
Ethan Sawyer 1:50
let's do a pro level. So macro level, the 92nd. For those who've never encountered the personal statement, basically, the purpose of this is to demonstrate the skills, qualities, values and interests that you're gonna bring to a college campus. You know this because you read an admissions but the way I see it as there are four qualities that students are looking to bring in one is their values or core values. Another I think it's really important to bring insight, which is to say, so what, so what are you gonna bring to the campus? So what do you think about this particular idea that you shared about? And then vulnerability is something that I feel like, there's a lot of different ways to talk about it, we can get into it. But it's basically is the personal statement actually personal? Does it go beyond the numbers? And then, in terms of craft, it's like, have you clearly revises over several drafts? I think sometimes students think this is going to be an English essay. It's not that it's a usually 650 word. One page, I say that Susan tree, our colleague likes to say that it brings life to the application and it gives the soul the heart of who you are. So and that's it, just just the the heart of who you are.
Tom Campbell 2:53
Yeah. So with this personal statement, is this something that people can use for multiple schools? Is it kind of like, how, how much is it the one statements for rule them all along? Loc, I
Ethan Sawyer 3:05
looked at my regs. So you know, typically, when you're applying to private schools, you'll be applying via the common app or the coalition app. And oftentimes, it's this one essay that you'll probably spend the most time on, that will work for multiple schools. I know not every school requires a personal statement. But for those who do know that investing time in this one essay is going to pay off down the line, there are supplemental essays, which we'll get into in part two. But this is one that for many of the selective schools, it's going to be important. And according to the state of college admission report, it's like after grades and after these positive character attributes, this is the thing that colleges care about next. Yeah,
Tom Campbell 3:41
maybe we can just start off with some of the most frequently asked questions that people often get. So hang around personal statements. Yeah. So the first one is going to be Can I include? Can I include our talk about personal challenges or stumbles? weaknesses in a personal statement? I think sometimes there's a conflation of, gee, I really want to appear like this like amazing, perfect person to someone on the other end, because I want to impress them. So how much space is there to talk about some of these formative moments in my life that have not been this sunshine and rainbows? Kondo narrow? Totally,
Ethan Sawyer 4:15
I mean, I think there is a, I want to say like a cultural bias in the college admission process, from students perspective, to writing about challenges. And I want to like reassure students listening that you do not have to write about challenges when it comes to your personal statement. And we can get into in a little bit, some other options. But for students who do want to write about challenges, for sure, you can and you can use a simple structure that we talked about a lot. It's like, what were the challenges that you faced and the effects on your life? That's really important. But then, you know, colleges, I think, only care about that in so much as how did you metabolize those experiences, like what did you do about it? And then what did you learn from the experience and that's that insight part. So if you are a student listening, and you're like, Oh, I'd love to write about challenges that simple story through challenges effects, what I did about it, what I learned, could really work. Having said that, there's also like other parts of the application that you can use to talk about big experiences, you've had challenges that your family has faced, in some cases, mental health experiences or challenges. And there's an additional information section where you can put that information so that you don't feel like you're defined by a single story. It
Tom Campbell 5:23
does seem, at least in recent years that you know, with things like Angela Duckworth, and the grit narrative and kind of resilience being kind of like seen as this, like, you know, one value to Trump them all. It's something that I think there's a whole you know, with college essay guy, we have the values exercise, it's like one of the, you know, college essay guy one on one fundamental steps to putting out a personal statement. And there's so many more values beyond resilience, that people in college admissions and college campuses can benefit from your kids. It's all a bunch of kids who are coming in like, Oh, I'm gonna out resilient you in all these discussions in my classes and in the dining hall and the resilience Yeah, Olympic resiliency Olympics, right? That's, it's it's one of many, many values that we all possess and connect with based on our life experiences. So
Ethan Sawyer 6:10
so to say it's not important, but like, there's just other stuff that colleges care about, you know, and if your show if you've shown resilience someone your application, if you've shown, for example, that you're a really hard worker, based on your grades, your extracurriculars, you don't also then need to, in your personal statement be like, Hey, by the way, I work super hard, and I'm resilient. You know, it, I'll say, for some students, yes, they do need to show resilience their application because their grades might be not demonstrating that as much
Tom Campbell 6:33
totally yet to cope Yonsei. This reminder, I am still hard working from that transcript, and those reps who does read, still just want you to know that. Okay, so challenges doesn't necessarily have to be the dominating, you know, part of a student's personal state. Right. Another common question we get around is, okay, so I'm a high school student, and I, I have a sense that colleges want to see that I'm going places, and I have a plan. And I have things that I have in line when it comes to my academic goals or my career goals. So the personal statement can feel like a really natural place to talk about some of those goals, especially if students have that vision or they've had formative experiences that have solidified Yes, I do indeed want to be a doctor. It's not just, you know, I think I science therefore I medicine, you know, like, there's a little more some people do kind of come in with those defined interests. So can the personal statement be a good place to flush that out and show colleges like, yes, these rolls are like, legit goals
Ethan Sawyer 7:28
throw totally. And I think that that can be an important use of the personal statement to kind of tie things together and be like, now that you've read all this other stuff? Well, in some cases, the personal statements read first, depending on the reader, but looking at all this, how does this all tie together? You can be this sort of like, and here's why I want to go into, you know, data analytics, or here's why I want to go into computer science, whatever that is. But I think students sometimes feel, especially if they come from like, overseas, and they're used to like, let's say they're from Europe, they're used to the, the UCaaS essay, which is more of a Y. Major, why do you want to study what you want to study? Yep. They think it has to be that it definitely doesn't have to be that and in fact, there's some schools that are going to ask you straight up, like, why do you want to major in what you want to major? And if you've already written about that, in your personal statement, you've kind of taken away the what do you call it taking not the fire, but taking the you basically taken away what you aren't going to say that essay, and that'll be super redundant. So I think that it can be useful to contextualize, especially for students who are going for like a very particular major. And maybe they don't have an essay for that school that talks about that major, then, yeah, that could potentially be a good place. No,
Tom Campbell 8:33
that's great advice. And another area to that commonly feels like the go to like when you immediately hear Okay, write about myself in my life experience or whatnot. A lot of students do associate their extracurricular activities told accomplishments as a go to initial topic idea for a personal statement. What do you think about that? Yeah. Okay.
Ethan Sawyer 8:53
So you'll often hear me say, like, students don't write about an extracurricular activity, because I just think it's, it's really hard to do well, if it's a common activity. So we've read the big game essay, we've read the if it's a, you know, service project, the community service project essay, where a student goes to another country, and they learn a valuable lesson. Usually, it's related to their privilege. And in some way they've got, you know, they realized, oh, I have so much to be grateful for. When it comes to extracurriculars, the football, the violin, I say the Boy Scouts, I say the Girl Scouts essay, the gold award. And I think these are valuable things. But the question that I ask students is like, Could this be a paragraph is a could this be, you know, a chapter in the story as opposed to the whole story just because it's going to be so hard you've read, I'm sure dozens and dozens if not hundreds of these, like learning confidence through debate. Exactly. Right. And I see that so much that it's like, okay, well, is how his debate helped form some particular aspect of your identity. And what other identities have been formed by different experiences where they see the common oh gosh, it's another basketball essay and get into that sort of I glazed mode. Yeah,
Tom Campbell 10:00
you know, no, sort of like, it's not that that those experiences were not worthwhile, or they didn't shape you in some way. But it's just that it's a story that's hard to tell it and keep popping, right with the way that the system was designed. And
Ethan Sawyer 10:14
it's gonna be in the application. It's just not to be your main store. actly. Yeah. So another area that sometimes
Tom Campbell 10:20
we get questions about is whether or not the personal statement makes sense as a place for kind of like, defending yourself in a way. So maybe like, if I got a load I write about getting a C in physics. Yeah, low grades, it'd be you missed a lot of school or, you know, you had difficult things in your life related to Yeah, it could be about academics or otherwise. But sometimes there's a tendency to want to use the space to like, defend and be like, Oh, no, but wait, this is why it happened. Right? Is the personal statement. The ideal place for that? Yeah, I love this closure, this beautifully leading
Ethan Sawyer 10:53
question. It's not additional info go additionally, why that stuff? No, go go Additional Info section with those things. Because, yes, schools may wonder why you got that particular grade, or why there was a, you know, this gap and your transcript, but then the additional info section, and then, again, show up in your best, brilliant, most beautiful South in, you know, Shining, shimmering and splendid ways, like and find topics that can like, you know, actually, they can help you do that, because there are so many others so much more to you than that bad grade that you got, or that particular circumstance and rest assure that there's a place in the application to put that, yeah,
Tom Campbell 11:26
absolutely. A whole new world. And so we actually just say that a karaoke not not too long ago. As
Ethan Sawyer 11:33
far as brainstorming goes, I've thought about this a ton over the years, and I've my whole approach to this has really evolved. So it used to be that like, I was like values, exercise and essence objects exercise. That's it, and you'll, you're gonna get some stuff there. That's true, you're gonna get some stuff. But over the pandemic, really, I looked at 300 essays from our clerk from past students. And I was like, What are these students doing? Like, how are they arriving at topics, ultimately, for what I would call successful essays successful in the sense that either they had a great result in terms or they got in or they just had values, they had insights, they had vulnerability, that craft and I felt like the student was really demonstrating skills, qualities and values they're going to show to the college campus, what I found is that a lot of times students were arriving at, for the most part, there were seven different types of essay that they were writing. And I thought, well, rather than sort of, like, do these exercises, and hope they get to these, eventually, let's just do exercises that are much more directly connected to where they're going to end up eventually, anyway. So we'll link to a video on this. But the short version of this is, number one, students writing about something that they love or know a lot about. So there's a little exercise you can do with us. But basically, it's like, make a list of things that you could nerd out, you can geek out on, you know, I've got like, books on my bookshelf, or I've got like, you know, games board games? Yeah, there's board games, you can see on the background there. And I know a lot about those. The second thing is yes, there are in some cases, certain essence objects, which is to say concrete things that represent different parts of who you are different moments, different memories. It could be a bracelet that someone gave you at one point it could be, it could be actually board games, because that is an essence object, like a concrete thing. It could be plants, you know, for me, it's like each plant that I have in my house represents some different side of me.
Tom Campbell 13:22
Yeah, one of mine is a colada, which is an Irish symbol means I love loyalty and friendship, it's suddenly his hands with a heart and a crown. It's a really big, like, Irish culture was like a really big thing for me growing up. So when I did that exercise, that was like, a very, very immediate one.
Ethan Sawyer 13:36
Yeah, I love that. The third one is like your skills or superpowers? Like what are the things that you're really good at, or that people consistently tell you that you're good at? It could be that you're really good at, for example, you know, listening, or, and that was somewhat common when it could be that you're really good at recognizing patterns in different situations, it could be patterns, with your friends with how a certain, you know, things have happened in history. And that is your skill or superpower. And you talk about how that has shaped, you know, different sides of you. It could be that you can, as one student once could juggle while jogging, and that was his superpower. Do you have others? In your head?
Tom Campbell 14:12
I'm thinking of I mean, another one would be kind of like that student who they're not the loudest voice in the room. But like when they say something, it's like really Mike trop profound, right? Like, and students can write multiple instances of where that showed up and write what the end result was or, you know, when they chose to speak up, because oftentimes, it's based on like, moments when their values were being tested, maybe like someone was being bullied or harassed, and they stepped in and even though that's not of character for them as the quiet one, right, that would be an example of his superpower, lighting up intellectual conversations in a classroom setting. You know, breaking up fights in the hallways and saving the day one, what little utterance at a time
Ethan Sawyer 14:50
and what I'm hearing that is like, if we were if we were brainstorming a personal statement, it's something like, yeah, it's not always what to say, but it's like when to say it, and it's finding that context. But that would be the
Tom Campbell 15:00
insight. Yeah, like, yeah, that
Ethan Sawyer 15:02
insight could go later on. Or you could go like at the start right to just draw some and what what I often think times I do think it is what to say? What do you mean when to say it and hear all these different scenarios and different areas of my life? So that's the third one skills and superpowers. A fourth one is the one that we talked about earlier, which is like, what do you want to study? What's your future career? Major? And what are the instances the moments in your life that have led you to realize that this is the thing that you want to do? So that's for you. The fifth one is something like, what is your home or Where's where the different places where you feel like you find that you're in your zone. So it could be if I was writing this as my high school self, I'm at home, and I'm on the stage, when I'm performing, I'm at home when I'm writing poems, because that, you know, speaks to my reflective side, and I'm at home when I'm so it's all these different areas that are homes for me, when students could write about one particular home, like, I'm at home, when I'm editing videos, and that's their whole essay is about how that's shaped them in different ways. Or it could be that they jump around, and they're like, oh, or there's all these different places that I find that I'm at home. Another one is, and this is one of my favorites is an identity, your identities. So the student's identity could be something connected to something that they do so like I am a dancer, and but that's not the only identity, because that's the way people know me, I'm also a nerd in this particular way. And I'm also the oldest sibling, and here's how that identity manifests itself. And I love when students kind of share, you know, different identities. And then the last one is the uncommon extracurricular activity. So not football, not basketball, not you know, tennis or debate. But what's that thing that you do that is maybe a little bit unusual? You know, students in the past have heard about Dungeons and Dragons, or Magic the Gathering or, you know, beekeeping. Now, this is not for students listening, you know, you need to write about beekeeping in order to have an interesting essay, but some students do write about things that they are interested in. And it is, it's, there's something that's like, it's it's technically kind of an extracurricular activity, but it's like those unusual ones, those those strange ones, I think, can make for an interesting personal statement. And these different types, like they can totally overlap. So the essence object that you mentioned, for example, that not only represents a symbol that's important to you, but it represents an identity. And that connects to certain values. And so a question to explore would be okay, well, based on this, do we want to just like, free right on that identity? Or continue to brainstorm like, Okay, well, what are other different ways that you identify, and how has each one of those become an important part of who you are? So my point like big picture, and these can overlap. By that, I mean, you know, it could be that several essence objects represent different identities. But big picture, there's so many different ways that you can write a personal statement, so many different ways to generate interesting content that don't necessarily have to be connected to your greatest challenge, as it were.
Tom Campbell 17:56
And a lot so the essays that you are the buckets that you kind of describe the paths that you described are often ones where the montage essay, that structure is now not we talk a lot about having a lot of merits, because it allows you to be that multi dimensional person that you are, allows you to kind of maximize I guess those 650 words, and not have it necessarily be about a single part of who you are. So I don't know, if you want to maybe yeah, just anything, you know, make that distinction between that montage style that you just described with those seven different pas, and then that narrative style, which, you know, talking earlier about the students who do want to write about those challenges they've overcome. Oftentimes, that path is preferred for that particular topic. Idea. Yeah.
Ethan Sawyer 18:36
So when it comes to writing a personal statement, in terms of the structure of it, we talk about montage, and we talk about narrative. So a narrative is that challenges based, you know, movie essay that we're used to, from all the personal statements where the students like, here's the challenge, here's what I did about it, here's what I learned. Everything that I just talked about, is essentially taking a theme, and connecting it to different moments, memories, experiences, or values. And so what I when we say, montage, what we're talking about is just like a movie, a series of moments, or images that are connected by a common thread or theme. So anything in either things I just mentioned, something that you love, or know a lot about could be that connective thread or theme. And identity could be that connective theme or thread, essentially, you just need something that you can one, say a lot about in my a lot, I mean, at least a page, you can read a page on it. And two, I think it's really important for it to be elastic, which is to say stretchy enough to talk about different sides of you. Because if you just got that job at that summer ice cream shop, it may not be the most elastic topic and may not connect to as many sides of you as something that you've maybe been experiencing for longer or something that you're just way into. So that something to think about. And then the third quality that I think is I think could be really important for students. Is that uncommon ness and I don't I don't think it's like there are common topics and uncommon topics. I think it's kind of all on a spectrum, and we can take something like football or basketball and be like, clearly on the common side of the spectrum using but his students are assessing, for example, how do I stand out? What I think we're looking for is like, is there something that's slightly more uncommon, it doesn't have to be as wild as beekeeping or like blacksmithing, as the student wrote about once, or parkour, because they're like, why? It doesn't have to be on that far, far end of the spectrum. But we're looking for something that on this sort of like, are more students can be reading about or fewer, we're looking for something that's a little bit more uncommon,
Tom Campbell 20:33
right? So like, a football and faith essay, like football is the thing that got me, you know, church, wasn't it? It was football, like, I mean, that could be like the opening line or something. Right. And it's, it's that kind of like, unexpected,
Ethan Sawyer 20:44
I find God and football
Tom Campbell 20:46
and football. You know, I don't know if I would exactly approach it that way. But I definitely think that yeah, connecting those kind of, quote, unquote, common topics with those uncommon values, or qualities, or, or connections is definitely something that, you know, as someone who read applications, it does catch your eye. And it does like make you want to keep reading total as he how that connection is fully flushed out. Yeah.
Ethan Sawyer 21:11
And there are a couple of ways to do that one of them that you're pointing to, I just want to like name for folks. So on a meta level, you can take that common topic, like football and connect it with something that you wouldn't think you would go with. So one student, for example, was writing about business, and I've read so many why I want to get into business essays. But she also really loved plants. And so planted business, those don't go together. Or do they? Like that's where I start to get excited? And I'm like, Okay, how do plants business can because that's going to make for a much more interesting who's
Tom Campbell 21:39
gonna say, tell, tell, that's all the SE entrepreneurs who are designing their terrarium, and God knows what, right.
Ethan Sawyer 21:45
And the other thing about the common topics is that you can actually stand out with a common topic, potentially. So here's what like my sort of framework for this is like, the difference between a boring personal statement and a standout one, I think starts with the topic. And is it a common topic or a more uncommon topic? Right? So is it football? Or is it something that is less football? The second thing is sort of like the connections that you're making. And you just pointed to this with values. So if I'm making common connections, so for football, that might be like, discipline, hard work, perseverance, maybe gonna blend in. But if I'm making more uncommon connections, like football taught me about faith football, told me about community in football. Tell me about social justice. Yeah, I want to read that essay like that starts to get that and it shows a critical and creative mind. Yep. And then for the last one, I think those common or uncommon insights, so the common insights for football might sound something like this are the sowhat moments that I mentioned, might sound like, teamwork makes the dream work, or and I realized that all of my experiences have shaped who I am, right. And anything that tells you it's anything that you could put on a Hallmark card is probably gonna say, what are we writing? But you know, and that's how football taught me once during the past, you know, football made him a better reader. And he went into like, the details about how football helped him analyze the defense, and you know, sort of be able to critically think about what was going to happen next and predict. And he connected that to how he became a critical thinker. And in the classroom. Yeah, that starts to get a little bit more interesting. And it leads to things that we wouldn't expect you to say. And that's what I think we're talking about insights that we're looking for. It's like, what are those pathways to saying things that the reader goes? Oh, as opposed to? You know,
Tom Campbell 23:30
it's so Hana. So shout out to Donna. Yeah, everyone who'd be like, who's on oh, we need to know where I'm like truck. You do need to know her. She's all over our channel, different webinars, search Hatha colleges. I got workshops galore. Yes, just she's a mastermind. And I think you know, when putting together that kind of like perfect montage essay, you know, that kind of just feels like the ratios are all working you know, and there's the right amount of words allocated to fully flush out and insight that's another area where I think just like some practical tips like that, I like to give out our you know, it's not like you want to pics for so for example, like the uncommon extracurricular activity and be like, I need to have like seven different mini paragraphs about wall the different moments where I've juggled in what was it juggling juggling while jogging while juggling, I'm gonna give seven different instances of all these different things. That's it, that gives you like 20 words per paragraph, quote, unquote, which doesn't really allow you to actually make those connections as fully realized. So haven't those students that you know, getting that common theme that you want to kind of have like multiple body paragraphs be connected through and maybe stick inside say three or four different vignettes fun yeas, totally whatever.
Ethan Sawyer 24:43
Reminds us rhymes with bad yeah. Is that
Tom Campbell 24:47
been yes and no, I want some chicory coffee and Cafe Du Monde. I'm like we need a little little pick me up here. But I'd say that's kind of that sweet spot right where you are allowing for that multi dimensional part of you to come through but not say analyzing or watering things down. So that is just bullet points, right? Like you don't want it to be, you know, I caution students, when you get more than five different examples of something within the theme totally, that can start to just with the words that you have that you're working with, it can prevent each paragraph from being its own standalone insight that's being put forward to the reader. And
Ethan Sawyer 25:19
that's just by nature of the the word limit, like you start to get familiar with this after doing this a while where it's like, you kind of know, you can go pretty solid on three or four. If you've got 11 different things, it's hard to go in depth. So yeah, totally with her. My
Tom Campbell 25:35
favorite montage essays that I read, or I was working with a student on last year was, is basically it's pretty, pretty common topic on the outside, right? When you zoom out, it's like, it's about kind of the town he comes from and what how he spends his time like, that's like the thesis statement, basically. So you're like, not sound that that's gonna crush, just like everyone in ever who's ever lived in a place. But the like kind of an opening, I lived in a place. First, I'd like to do things in that place. There are some things I do with that. And the reason we kind of that his topic, the theme ended up actually being outlaw like that was kind of like the actual theme of kind of how all the different body paragraphs were woven together. And it came from different brainstorming exercises across the board. So kind of you described those seven different paths, the home essay, the uncommon extracurricular essay, the career or major interest essay, these there were exercises that the student did that kind of, you know, we noticed that so many of them had some somewhat of like an outlier, or outlaw theme to them. And he talked about actually this Josey Wales poster that was from his grandpa well, and how it like they used to connect over old westerns. Yeah. And then I was like, Well, this is kind of like an outlaw example. And this is an outlaw example. And that kind of became a thing that wove through the different paragraphs together, it was, oh, I'm an outlaw, in my family, because we breakfast for dinner. Yeah. And that's like, not that typical. And we do have these different traditions and whatnot that are, you know, both really commonly southern where I'm from, but also not at the same time.
Ethan Sawyer 27:05
That's so good. It's because it points to that on commonality that like, sort of like, there is a way that other people do things. But we do it this other way. And it sets up in a great way that expectation for the year.
Tom Campbell 27:15
And the next, the next paragraph is like, Oh, I'm also really into history, and I'm in the historical society, and everyone else around me is like, you know, 60 plus. And here I am, like teaching them how to, like, log on to a computer. And like, you know, what, here's what's the password, right? Like, that was kind of like the theme of this kind of like compassionate, you know, kind of bridge building side across generations, that's cool inside of who he was. Yeah. And there was no two other ones in there as well. But I guess the point of bringing this up is like, you can kind of take things from your quote unquote, typical life, and using that kind of artistry, and that that craft ability to make connections between these different things, and what the commonality is, really helps the reader kind of finish reading the essay and feel like okay, everything flowed. Yeah, everything was cohesive. But it wasn't the same paragraph over and over, right. And I think when you can really do that, that's the sweet spot.
Ethan Sawyer 28:05
Totally. And it's important, you talked about, like some of those, because that sounds like an essay that's gonna go in a lot of different places. It's so important for students. This is like a practical tip to make sure that you set up that theme clearly at the start. And I think it's in the first paragraph, a second paragraph, the latest, because you don't want to leave the reader wondering, what is this? What are we doing here? Yeah, so there needs to be that I call it the college essay sentence that lets us know what that theme or thread is, because if we're four paragraphs, and we've seen the word outlaw appear a lot of different times, but we're like, we're kind of all over the map here. Like there needs to be something that anchors us because otherwise, the readers brain is going to be sort of like away, think of it as like RAM, it's going to be kind of caught up in trying to figure out what the topic is and like Orient, essentially, and you don't want them distracted. You want them to know, like, this is an essay about that my identity is an outlaw. Yeah. And then here's some different examples of that. It doesn't have to walk us through
Tom Campbell 28:57
something that arose at a time when you worked with the student from kind of point A to point B. Yeah. And kind of what it took to get to that final essay product. Yeah. And going to those brainstorming exercises and themes.
Ethan Sawyer 29:09
Yeah, totally. So before I even meet with a student, I'd love to see a ton of brainstorming work. And, you know, some of the exercises that I mentioned are there. And when we meet, I'm also looking at like, parent homework, you know, questions that they would ask and sometimes a parents gonna say something that's like, really like, Oh, great. And the thing that you wouldn't even like learn about until like, the fifth time that you've seen a student. So I'll give an example. A student that I worked with a few years ago, in his brainstorming work, the common theme, it was pretty clear it because he had, you know, projects that he'd worked on around it was food. And I was like, it was pretty obvious and he joked about it. He's like, I'm probably gonna end up writing something about food. I'm like, okay, cool. I was like, so how do you make something like food stand out? That was sort of the question and one of the early things and one of the things that I'm will kind of do and an early Session is like, is there some way that I can get a student sort of lit up to start writing about the thing. And so one of the ways that I'll do that, practically speaking is like helping them look at values that connect to their particular topic. So this case food. So what I asked them was like, Alright, when you think about food, what are the different values that come up for you? And there's like, a list of values will link to in the shout outs, and a student can look and be like, Okay, there's this value, and there's this value, and there's this value. Great. Are there examples of these? And so the homework that I send me away with was like, I want you to just write a bunch of examples of food stories, we're going to call them. Calvin, on our team calls with a pile of stuff. And what is the diff? What are the different food moments, memories, experiences? So we came back, and the next week we met and we looked at it, and it seems like within each of these, there was some kind of like, little lesson that he was learning. And the next homework assignment was okay, could you hone in on what the lessons were like food lessons. And so from that emerged, the theme of like, okay, lessons that I've learned from food. And for really a few weeks, he was writing an essay about like, food has taught me lots of lessons, it was very direct and straightforward. And then what started to emerge is, some of the food lessons were a little bit more uncommon than others. So there was the lesson on how food and working around working in food shelter taught them about discipline and hard work and perseverance. And oftentimes, when I see a common one, I'll ask students, okay, what's the opposite of that? In? And he's like, What do you mean, the opposite of like, discipline, hard work, perseverance? What's the opposite? He's like, being lazy? And I was like, Yeah, you know? And I was like, Well, what else is important in it? Like, what's the positive version of it? He's like, okay, not being disciplined, like being creative, being new, you know, self care, resting. And I'm like, Yeah, this starts to sound interesting. So it's like, rather than go without hard driving thing, that maybe somebody else is gonna say, what's the opposite of this? And can Are there examples where food has helped you connect with creativity, or help you learn about self care, etc. So essentially, we're kind of poking and prodding to try and find uncommon connections, especially because it's a common topic, because with a common topic, like food, there gonna be other students writing about food, I've now seen a dozen food essays, you know, so finding those uncommon connections. And then the student was really hard worker, he just spent, you know, draft after draft, like revising. So that this was an essay that he felt like, Okay, this really represents different sides of me, that aren't going to be in my activities listed aren't going to be in my Additional Information section. He was really interesting, highly selective schools. So it was important, his personal statement wasn't also overlapping with, for example, you know, his involvement. He was also like, competing for the starting quarterback position, but he didn't want to write the football essay. And I said, Great, that can be in another essay. But long story longer, essentially, he was able to find these uncommon connections and write a series of vignettes, he was set up the beginning, this is going to be a food. So he basically showed different sides of himself. And what sets that food essay apart from another students is the uncommon connections. And I think those those values that we wouldn't necessarily expect. And one of the things I'll say is like, better ingredients better. Yep. Papa John's, sponsored by Papa John's now, better college essay and ingredients. To me, are those values, like, what are those different sides of you that you're connecting with in the food essay, or the football essay? And that's gonna make for more interesting pizza essay. And then the other thing that I think helped set it apart is those those insights, those moments where he says a thing in a way that I didn't expect, or he points to something that I, you know, that surprises me. And so, ultimately, you know, yeah, he had a great process, it turned out really well. But the the main thing for me is not, you know, he ended up getting into grad school, etc. But the main thing for me was like, for me, what I want students to feel that they have a process in terms of their personal statement is like, did I feel like, this is the best I could do? Do I feel like my skills, qualities, values and interests are represented this application? And there's like, a kind of sense of ease that I'm hoping for, and again, a sense of like, letting go, where it's not about like, God, I hope I get it. Yeah, sure. We, you know, try hard and hope for a great result. But I want a student to feel when they see their application. I feel like this was me. And if they don't want me, that's, that's all I could do. And there's not much more that I could control because there's so much that students can't control, you know, but that's, that's the hope. And I think that's how we ended up feeling ultimately, and this is a special kid. But ultimately, he was able to sort of let go and feel that the process itself was gratifying. And not that it wasn't that his success wasn't necessarily only dependent on where he got in or didn't get ahead. If he got into like this school versus the school. He was sort of like I think along the way, one of the things we talked about is like, what does success look like for you in this process? And for me, there's so much more. It's not about the college application, per se. Sure, that's the presenting thing. But this is really much more about who he was discovering himself to be and how his experiences have led him to this moment and and it's you know, this is just sort of a sliver a snapshot in time before he goes off to college and beyond. But what is the tumbling forward? Sort of like, this is the latest version of me represented? And then, you know, let that let that speak as I'm
Tom Campbell 35:15
going on. Now I'm hungry, and I actually live I think that's a big closing line of that. So I actually like it is now yeah, I'm just gonna say, Yeah, well, no one before we'll link it in the show notes specifically hungry for garlic sauce, Allah, Papa John's, oh my gosh, again, here for it. It's literally oil and oil. Oh, my
Ethan Sawyer 35:31
gosh, that was me in college was just the breadsticks and just goof off, did I get four more of these for that will be $6? How does the student know when it's done? Some of the qualities that we talk about, number one, do your core values come through? And can you point to specific moments of the essay? When it's like, oh, yes, this is revealing this side of me This is revealing this side of me, etc? And can you find at least four or five moments where your values are clearly coming through? Part one? Number two, do I have some insights? Do I have two or three moments where I say something that the reader may not expect? Third, is this personal statement? Actually personal. And we'll kind of give it a vulnerability test sometimes of like, it doesn't need to be level 10 vulnerable. But we're kind of looking for that five to seven range. Maybe some students, it's just all about activities and driving, it kind of stays on the surface. Are there moments where you let the reader in a little bit and show him your heart? I think that's really important. And it doesn't have to be your deepest, darkest secrets, you can be vulnerable by describing something that you just love. And then that that craft and by craft, it's a really loaded term. But it's something like is it clear that this has been revised over several drafts? You know, do we see that, you know, there's a clear structure in place. And that's something that just comes comes with, with doing a few drafts.
Tom Campbell 36:43
So ideally, after you finish that great college essay test, you feel you feel good about things, I think something that can be tempting is for students to keep going back and being like, How can I change like one or two, right? Or it's to like, make it perfect. And something that I often say to students is like, really kind of having a really good sense in your mind of like, what's a substantive move, if a paragraph doesn't have its own site connected to it, that's a substantive move that I think I need to invest some time on before I feel like this is complete. Yeah, this is a lateral move, swap, swapping from using, you know, benevolent to generous, is not gonna make any difference in your process. From a mathematical standpoint, you're not tilting the needle in any way. So I think that's another thing that I'd say when students approach those final stages. And they, it can be tempting to want to just keep going over and over and over and questioning a particular sentence or phrase, or should this be a semicolon or a dash, to who cares? Right, literally, right? At that point, the person reading through it again, they're going through quickly, they want those insights, they want those key, those core values that you're bringing to their campus, and they're not sitting there, you know, doing a ton of like, judging of like, oh, this should have been a compound sentence and minus 10. Or this, you know, there's not this like red ink that's being spilled across your page, right? They're usually highlighting things that stand out to them, right, they're not crossing out or pointing out things that they didn't like, as much they have, they don't have time for that, quite frankly, they need to give themselves material to advocate for you. And when you have that, and at the very least like run your essay through Grammarly brave like, give it a kind of like once over from, you know, some we have great tools at our disposal to help make sure that things you have are polished and clean, and they're not riddled with typos or errors. And speaking of tools at our disposal, we're living in a time right, where artificial intelligence is constantly on a daily basis. Yeah, advancing and, you know, Chat GPT and tools like it, you know, the the 1.0 to the 2.0, big leaps when it comes to sophistication and the capacity of tools to be able to write full blown articles or reports. So for students and families wondering, is there a place for artificial intelligence in the college essay, particularly the personal statement writing process? What would you say to those families?
Ethan Sawyer 38:57
So what I'll say is like, I think at this point of as of this recording, colleges are still kind of figuring out what is this thing? And how do we look for it like plagiarism detectors is in some of them work, some of them don't. So what we're telling students, what I'm telling students is like, tread carefully, you know, be careful if you're using Chat GPT. Because there could be questions that ask, Hey, how did you use it the process? What did you use in the process? And just you really want to be prepared to answer that, but tread carefully. But the main thing that I think if Chat GPT becomes widely used, and is I think, what I think Chat GPT can help students think more critically or come up with ideas, if used correctly, but I think that what for some students might go away is that the process the sort of what I would call like, nutritional process of going through thinking through figuring out what your thoughts are, and putting them on a page. I think that can actually teach us a ton about how our brains work about who we are. And I think automating that I I think we would miss out on something really important. No? Sure, maybe we can get some of that in other ways, but I feel like that would be my biggest concern with, you know, if Chat GPT just became incredibly widespread. Yeah,
Tom Campbell 40:12
yeah, I like to help students like thinking of Chat GPT kind of as your sounding board, especially if you don't have one, right, we have students who are coming from environments where, you know, some students work with an essay coach, they work with a, you know, college counselor, to really kind of help them through the things that we described, right? Those those brainstorming processes and having that person to be that sounding board of like, Hey, me working on the food shelter? You know, and having that connected to hard work. And perseverance is that like a basic connection? Like, you know, your student had a sounding where my student had a sounding board, and really not everyone has that, right. So I think, when you can use artificial intelligence to be that presence, especially if you don't have someone, if you're the first in your family to go to college, you go to a high school where your college counselor isn't able to meet and sit down with you to kind of brainstorm some of some of these ideas of his questions that you have for yourself, Chat. GPT can be you know, to some degree, that figure right and, and that human connection is obviously ideal if you can, if you can have your essay be you know, you don't want this just have chat to be TV that maybe the only sounding word may be like a friend or someone who knows your tone of voice or the way that you typically speak and can kind of be that like, this sounds like you like as sounds like kind of the person that I know and who I love. So check to be doesn't, isn't able to know that quite as much really excited,
Ethan Sawyer 41:25
though. And quick plug for match letters. So students are listening to this. And you're like, I'm a low income students, I'd love essay hop, we have a program, we work with hundreds of students each year, we'll link to it in the show notes where we will pair you with a counselor for one on one support. So, you know, if you if you're listening to this, and you're like, that sounds awesome. We'll link to in the show notes. We'd love for you to apply.
Tom Campbell 41:45
Yeah. And so actually on top of equity, that's another big change. That's kind of common in the recent admission landscape. Is Supreme Court putting a ban on race conscious admission? Or how would you say that this Supreme Court decision and kind of the way that essays have now kind of become an increased presence in helping being a place for students to kind of talk about their identities and where they're coming from? How has that kind of evolved this past year in particular? Yeah,
Ethan Sawyer 42:10
so this is something in see previous podcast episodes on this for those who are interested in this. But you know, essentially what happened is, the Supreme Court said, Okay, you can't check a box for race the application. And so what happened is a lot of colleges, and we'll talk about this on part two of the podcast changed their supplemental essay prompts, where they're now asking about identity, and they're asking students like, in different ways, hey, is there anything else about you, we should know, you know, and they're creating these opportunities. And from conversations with different admission officers, they're like, yeah, the essays really matter. Especially Yes, for this for we're talking about in terms of student's identity, because colleges want to let's be really real colleges want to enroll a diverse class. And they're interested in diversity in many different ways, racial diversity being one of them. But the essay is an important way that students do that. But the other thing that's shifted in a big way was, you know, testing kind of going away, essentially. And so as colleges are looking for, what are some of the differentiators? You know, and they don't have test scores, they're looking to essays more. So essays have become, in some ways, more important than they were, you know, a few years ago. But yeah, in particular, as it relates to the Supreme Court decision, I want to talk let's talk more about that. In the supplemental essays, one, because it's, that's where it's showing up. I think a lot more, I think, I'll say that there's a whole guide on this, by the way that we wrote on, like, how to write about if you do decide that you want to write about race in your application, should you or should you not? And how do you decide? It's connected to, I think identities and we can think about identities in the broad sense. There are also students who are listening to this and going well, I'm not a student of color. And I'm interested in, you know, talking about my identities. Great, there's still a place for you to do that. And there are ways for you to do that. And there are exercises that you can, you know, again, see previous podcasts and do that. So, but I think that, yeah, we've definitely seen a shift in terms of essays in the state of college admissions report that you mentioned, you know, reflects that.
Tom Campbell 44:04
Yeah. So I feel like fully voiced listening have a clearer sense of why essays are important, particularly, you know, at this current era of applying to college. But I want to kind of close out with just asking you, Ethan, like, why are essays important to you? Like, what do you think they have the capacity to do for students? Why do you think it's, it's a worthwhile rite of passage for students?
Ethan Sawyer 44:25
So a couple things. One is like, I am a writer, so I'm biased, and I like writing in my life has, I forget who said this, but it was like I write, to learn how I think, and I think it's helped me personally figure out what's going on in here. And also like, what I feel it has helped me figure out who I am in many ways. And so I think that I am super biased. I just bias alert on that regard. I think that for students going through this process, there aren't you mentioned rites of passage. There aren't too many rites of passage in our culture, then I'm just speaking about like, American culture and I feel like this is one that students are incentivized to do that deep personal growth work. And that's what I'm here for, you know, is that, who am I? What am I? What do I care about? Why do I care about these things? And to have to say that to someone, in essentially, read aloud, it's about three minutes is like, yeah, it's some work. But it feels like really worthwhile work. Because I think on the other side of it, students end up becoming a lot more confident, they become a lot more self assured, you know, their ability to speak about themselves in the world, when they eventually universe students who don't end up going to college, who are doing job interviews, like having gone through the process of like, writing about themselves, to me feels like so, so valuable, I'm super biased. And I think another big part of it, too, is like, growing up, we'll maybe we'll do a separate podcast on like, why college doesn't even started. But like, I think I was looking for psychological safety, because I grew up moving around a lot. And I think I was looking for ways to essentially connect with others. And I found that when I was working with twins, on their personal statements, they were connecting much more deeply with themselves. And there were interesting connections that were happening with the people who are in their lives, like their parents, or siblings, or mentor or counselor. And there were interesting connections that were happening, as a result of this thing, this process this thing that they were writing. And so I think that like, for me, when I think about like, a healthy world, a happy world, it's one where people are a little bit more connected, a little bit more connected to one another, what we care about what we need, understanding our own needs better. I think college essays can help with that. Yeah. And ultimately building more empathy, empathy for ourselves and empathy for one another. So it's deep work. And like I said, it's, it's about so the college just is about so much more than just a college essay. Yeah.
Tom Campbell 46:44
The personal statement process, obviously, we've touched on is very subjective in many ways. Because actually, for me, it's funny, I'm kind of, you know, I sometimes provide a contrast, like, as someone who like, doesn't identify as a writer, like that hasn't been a way historically, that I felt connected to myself or have been able to realize parts of my identity or the person I want to be in this world, I've definitely really come to value reflection, and a lot of that has come from my own experience going to judge a particularly a Jesuit College, doing a Jesuit postgraduate service program. So my, I guess, my kind of take out the light, like the why behind college essays is that, like, I love helping people reach their goals, right. And the personal statement process, at least currently, right now is a part of a process to be able to gain access to doors and opportunities and things you want to do with your life that really are going to fill your cup and make you feel purposeful. Yeah, you know, and for that reason, like that is kind of something that motivates me to help students with this process. So it can be really deep it can be there can be students who really do go deeper than what they expect. But I also have other students where I want to tell them to like, take that pressure, I guess, on their shoulders to be like, it has to be this like incredibly profound, like, I'm going to have this in a frame. And like, you know, if I deathbed, I'm going to be like, look at that story that I wrote that perfectly encapsulated my life at 17, or 18. We're fluid people, we're always constantly growing and improving. But I think that this, this phase, this ability to self reflect, and this ability to invest time and energy, like really substantially into something that really is important to you, which are these amazing options for higher education that we have in the US, that's a worthwhile cause. And if you commit to it and fully fully commit, you're building out habits and a precedent for a long life and career of like really going all in for the things that you want to have in your life. So I think the personal statement can be for many students, of course, many of them come with areas where they've worked hard, and areas of life where they've gone all in. But in going all in with something that sometimes isn't always as comfortable, especially if you're not that student who loves writing, they think you can actually be really empowering to be like, I'm not a writer, and look what happened in the end, like I was able to go to the school that I feel really meets my needs, or is really going to help me be the person I want to be. That can be really empowering to be like, yeah, it wasn't my thing, quote, unquote, I still did it. And it wasn't always easy. But like, in the end, it was worth it. Because I got to that I'm at the endpoint. Yeah.
Ethan Sawyer 49:14
I love what you're saying here. And if I were to like, college essay, this podcast real quick, a theme that I'm saying is, it's something like dichotomies like contrast. So and I don't know if it was who was attributed to this, but like any deep truth, the opposite is also true. So I'm hearing some different, potentially contrasting truths and what we've shared today. So for example, this last one that you brought up, which is like the, it's meaningful, it's deep. And it's also it's not that deep, like a thing you got to do. But this is about getting into college. It's also not about getting into QA. Yeah, it's about showing this particular thing that's going to improve your chances. Also, it's about this process that you're going through, you know, it's Important to anyway, the we could, if we were to replay the tape, we could find a series of, you know, sort of opposites I think and I don't know if that leaves students with a sense of like, awe, or a sense of like, okay, you know, for each of these things, the opposite could also be true. It kind of comes back to that theme of the it depends idea. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's part of what's made this whole process and this whole career really like really gratifying because it's pushing and pulling on me in different and interesting ways. And I'll go, you know, deep on one particular aspect of this process, and then I'll realize, oh, wow, the opposite is also really important. So that's why it's been really, I think, for me, like personally, it's led to a lot of growth and discovery and awesomeness. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the show notes at college essay guy.com/podcast, including our free guide to the personal statement, which walks you through some of the brainstorming exercises I talked about. It's got tips on structuring your essay, example essays, and lots more. on next week's episode, we'll dive into all the other written parts of the application including the activities list, the Additional Information section and the supplemental essays piece.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:08 Hey Friends and welcome back to the podcast. This is part four in our what colleges want series. And we're talking about my favorite thing, the personal statement. So according to the latest state of college admission report, after grades course rigor and positive character traits, which we talked about last time, the college essay is what colleges care about most. But on today's episode we get into what even is its purpose? How do you find a topic, especially if you're not writing about challenges? Why do I tell students to maybe not write about a common extracurricular activity as their main college essay topic? And how do you stand out? Stay tuned, and I'll tell you get this, we're trying a new thing. And you can find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the college essay Guy YouTube channel, just search, college essay guy personal statement podcast. This one's hosted by Tom Campbell, and our guest this week is me, the college essay guy. One of the things we talked about is like, what does success look like for you in this process? And for me, there's so much more, it's not about the college application, per se. Sure, that's the presenting thing. But this is really much more about who he was discovering himself to be and how his experiences have led him to this moment. And it's, you know, this is just sort of a sliver a snapshot in time before he goes off to college and beyond. But what is the tumbling forward? Sort of like, this is the latest version of me represented? And then, you know, let that speak. Tom Campbell 1:38 Why don't we give the folks who are tuning into this podcast today, just a little bit of a high level, zoomed out overview about what a personal statement even is, and kind of what its purpose is in the college admission process? So totally, yes, Ethan Sawyer 1:50 let's do a pro level. So macro level, the 92nd. For those who've never encountered the personal statement, basically, the purpose of this is to demonstrate the skills, qualities, values and interests that you're gonna bring to a college campus. You know this because you read an admissions but the way I see it as there are four qualities that students are looking to bring in one is their values or core values. Another I think it's really important to bring insight, which is to say, so what, so what are you gonna bring to the campus? So what do you think about this particular idea that you shared about? And then vulnerability is something that I feel like, there's a lot of different ways to talk about it, we can get into it. But it's basically is the personal statement actually personal? Does it go beyond the numbers? And then, in terms of craft, it's like, have you clearly revises over several drafts? I think sometimes students think this is going to be an English essay. It's not that it's a usually 650 word. One page, I say that Susan tree, our colleague likes to say that it brings life to the application and it gives the soul the heart of who you are. So and that's it, just just the the heart of who you are. Tom Campbell 2:53 Yeah. So with this personal statement, is this something that people can use for multiple schools? Is it kind of like, how, how much is it the one statements for rule them all along? Loc, I Ethan Sawyer 3:05 looked at my regs. So you know, typically, when you're applying to private schools, you'll be applying via the common app or the coalition app. And oftentimes, it's this one essay that you'll probably spend the most time on, that will work for multiple schools. I know not every school requires a personal statement. But for those who do know that investing time in this one essay is going to pay off down the line, there are supplemental essays, which we'll get into in part two. But this is one that for many of the selective schools, it's going to be important. And according to the state of college admission report, it's like after grades and after these positive character attributes, this is the thing that colleges care about next. Yeah, Tom Campbell 3:41 maybe we can just start off with some of the most frequently asked questions that people often get. So hang around personal statements. Yeah. So the first one is going to be Can I include? Can I include our talk about personal challenges or stumbles? weaknesses in a personal statement? I think sometimes there's a conflation of, gee, I really want to appear like this like amazing, perfect person to someone on the other end, because I want to impress them. So how much space is there to talk about some of these formative moments in my life that have not been this sunshine and rainbows? Kondo narrow? Totally, Ethan Sawyer 4:15 I mean, I think there is a, I want to say like a cultural bias in the college admission process, from students perspective, to writing about challenges. And I want to like reassure students listening that you do not have to write about challenges when it comes to your personal statement. And we can get into in a little bit, some other options. But for students who do want to write about challenges, for sure, you can and you can use a simple structure that we talked about a lot. It's like, what were the challenges that you faced and the effects on your life? That's really important. But then, you know, colleges, I think, only care about that in so much as how did you metabolize those experiences, like what did you do about it? And then what did you learn from the experience and that's that insight part. So if you are a student listening, and you're like, Oh, I'd love to write about challenges that simple story through challenges effects, what I did about it, what I learned, could really work. Having said that, there's also like other parts of the application that you can use to talk about big experiences, you've had challenges that your family has faced, in some cases, mental health experiences or challenges. And there's an additional information section where you can put that information so that you don't feel like you're defined by a single story. It Tom Campbell 5:23 does seem, at least in recent years that you know, with things like Angela Duckworth, and the grit narrative and kind of resilience being kind of like seen as this, like, you know, one value to Trump them all. It's something that I think there's a whole you know, with college essay guy, we have the values exercise, it's like one of the, you know, college essay guy one on one fundamental steps to putting out a personal statement. And there's so many more values beyond resilience, that people in college admissions and college campuses can benefit from your kids. It's all a bunch of kids who are coming in like, Oh, I'm gonna out resilient you in all these discussions in my classes and in the dining hall and the resilience Yeah, Olympic resiliency Olympics, right? That's, it's it's one of many, many values that we all possess and connect with based on our life experiences. So Ethan Sawyer 6:10 so to say it's not important, but like, there's just other stuff that colleges care about, you know, and if your show if you've shown resilience someone your application, if you've shown, for example, that you're a really hard worker, based on your grades, your extracurriculars, you don't also then need to, in your personal statement be like, Hey, by the way, I work super hard, and I'm resilient. You know, it, I'll say, for some students, yes, they do need to show resilience their application because their grades might be not demonstrating that as much Tom Campbell 6:33 totally yet to cope Yonsei. This reminder, I am still hard working from that transcript, and those reps who does read, still just want you to know that. Okay, so challenges doesn't necessarily have to be the dominating, you know, part of a student's personal state. Right. Another common question we get around is, okay, so I'm a high school student, and I, I have a sense that colleges want to see that I'm going places, and I have a plan. And I have things that I have in line when it comes to my academic goals or my career goals. So the personal statement can feel like a really natural place to talk about some of those goals, especially if students have that vision or they've had formative experiences that have solidified Yes, I do indeed want to be a doctor. It's not just, you know, I think I science therefore I medicine, you know, like, there's a little more some people do kind of come in with those defined interests. So can the personal statement be a good place to flush that out and show colleges like, yes, these rolls are like, legit goals Ethan Sawyer 7:28 throw totally. And I think that that can be an important use of the personal statement to kind of tie things together and be like, now that you've read all this other stuff? Well, in some cases, the personal statements read first, depending on the reader, but looking at all this, how does this all tie together? You can be this sort of like, and here's why I want to go into, you know, data analytics, or here's why I want to go into computer science, whatever that is. But I think students sometimes feel, especially if they come from like, overseas, and they're used to like, let's say they're from Europe, they're used to the, the UCaaS essay, which is more of a Y. Major, why do you want to study what you want to study? Yep. They think it has to be that it definitely doesn't have to be that and in fact, there's some schools that are going to ask you straight up, like, why do you want to major in what you want to major? And if you've already written about that, in your personal statement, you've kind of taken away the what do you call it taking not the fire, but taking the you basically taken away what you aren't going to say that essay, and that'll be super redundant. So I think that it can be useful to contextualize, especially for students who are going for like a very particular major. And maybe they don't have an essay for that school that talks about that major, then, yeah, that could potentially be a good place. No, Tom Campbell 8:33 that's great advice. And another area to that commonly feels like the go to like when you immediately hear Okay, write about myself in my life experience or whatnot. A lot of students do associate their extracurricular activities told accomplishments as a go to initial topic idea for a personal statement. What do you think about that? Yeah. Okay. Ethan Sawyer 8:53 So you'll often hear me say, like, students don't write about an extracurricular activity, because I just think it's, it's really hard to do well, if it's a common activity. So we've read the big game essay, we've read the if it's a, you know, service project, the community service project essay, where a student goes to another country, and they learn a valuable lesson. Usually, it's related to their privilege. And in some way they've got, you know, they realized, oh, I have so much to be grateful for. When it comes to extracurriculars, the football, the violin, I say the Boy Scouts, I say the Girl Scouts essay, the gold award. And I think these are valuable things. But the question that I ask students is like, Could this be a paragraph is a could this be, you know, a chapter in the story as opposed to the whole story just because it's going to be so hard you've read, I'm sure dozens and dozens if not hundreds of these, like learning confidence through debate. Exactly. Right. And I see that so much that it's like, okay, well, is how his debate helped form some particular aspect of your identity. And what other identities have been formed by different experiences where they see the common oh gosh, it's another basketball essay and get into that sort of I glazed mode. Yeah, Tom Campbell 10:00 you know, no, sort of like, it's not that that those experiences were not worthwhile, or they didn't shape you in some way. But it's just that it's a story that's hard to tell it and keep popping, right with the way that the system was designed. And Ethan Sawyer 10:14 it's gonna be in the application. It's just not to be your main store. actly. Yeah. So another area that sometimes Tom Campbell 10:20 we get questions about is whether or not the personal statement makes sense as a place for kind of like, defending yourself in a way. So maybe like, if I got a load I write about getting a C in physics. Yeah, low grades, it'd be you missed a lot of school or, you know, you had difficult things in your life related to Yeah, it could be about academics or otherwise. But sometimes there's a tendency to want to use the space to like, defend and be like, Oh, no, but wait, this is why it happened. Right? Is the personal statement. The ideal place for that? Yeah, I love this closure, this beautifully leading Ethan Sawyer 10:53 question. It's not additional info go additionally, why that stuff? No, go go Additional Info section with those things. Because, yes, schools may wonder why you got that particular grade, or why there was a, you know, this gap and your transcript, but then the additional info section, and then, again, show up in your best, brilliant, most beautiful South in, you know, Shining, shimmering and splendid ways, like and find topics that can like, you know, actually, they can help you do that, because there are so many others so much more to you than that bad grade that you got, or that particular circumstance and rest assure that there's a place in the application to put that, yeah, Tom Campbell 11:26 absolutely. A whole new world. And so we actually just say that a karaoke not not too long ago. As Ethan Sawyer 11:33 far as brainstorming goes, I've thought about this a ton over the years, and I've my whole approach to this has really evolved. So it used to be that like, I was like values, exercise and essence objects exercise. That's it, and you'll, you're gonna get some stuff there. That's true, you're gonna get some stuff. But over the pandemic, really, I looked at 300 essays from our clerk from past students. And I was like, What are these students doing? Like, how are they arriving at topics, ultimately, for what I would call successful essays successful in the sense that either they had a great result in terms or they got in or they just had values, they had insights, they had vulnerability, that craft and I felt like the student was really demonstrating skills, qualities and values they're going to show to the college campus, what I found is that a lot of times students were arriving at, for the most part, there were seven different types of essay that they were writing. And I thought, well, rather than sort of, like, do these exercises, and hope they get to these, eventually, let's just do exercises that are much more directly connected to where they're going to end up eventually, anyway. So we'll link to a video on this. But the short version of this is, number one, students writing about something that they love or know a lot about. So there's a little exercise you can do with us. But basically, it's like, make a list of things that you could nerd out, you can geek out on, you know, I've got like, books on my bookshelf, or I've got like, you know, games board games? Yeah, there's board games, you can see on the background there. And I know a lot about those. The second thing is yes, there are in some cases, certain essence objects, which is to say concrete things that represent different parts of who you are different moments, different memories. It could be a bracelet that someone gave you at one point it could be, it could be actually board games, because that is an essence object, like a concrete thing. It could be plants, you know, for me, it's like each plant that I have in my house represents some different side of me. Tom Campbell 13:22 Yeah, one of mine is a colada, which is an Irish symbol means I love loyalty and friendship, it's suddenly his hands with a heart and a crown. It's a really big, like, Irish culture was like a really big thing for me growing up. So when I did that exercise, that was like, a very, very immediate one. Ethan Sawyer 13:36 Yeah, I love that. The third one is like your skills or superpowers? Like what are the things that you're really good at, or that people consistently tell you that you're good at? It could be that you're really good at, for example, you know, listening, or, and that was somewhat common when it could be that you're really good at recognizing patterns in different situations, it could be patterns, with your friends with how a certain, you know, things have happened in history. And that is your skill or superpower. And you talk about how that has shaped, you know, different sides of you. It could be that you can, as one student once could juggle while jogging, and that was his superpower. Do you have others? In your head? Tom Campbell 14:12 I'm thinking of I mean, another one would be kind of like that student who they're not the loudest voice in the room. But like when they say something, it's like really Mike trop profound, right? Like, and students can write multiple instances of where that showed up and write what the end result was or, you know, when they chose to speak up, because oftentimes, it's based on like, moments when their values were being tested, maybe like someone was being bullied or harassed, and they stepped in and even though that's not of character for them as the quiet one, right, that would be an example of his superpower, lighting up intellectual conversations in a classroom setting. You know, breaking up fights in the hallways and saving the day one, what little utterance at a time Ethan Sawyer 14:50 and what I'm hearing that is like, if we were if we were brainstorming a personal statement, it's something like, yeah, it's not always what to say, but it's like when to say it, and it's finding that context. But that would be the Tom Campbell 15:00 insight. Yeah, like, yeah, that Ethan Sawyer 15:02 insight could go later on. Or you could go like at the start right to just draw some and what what I often think times I do think it is what to say? What do you mean when to say it and hear all these different scenarios and different areas of my life? So that's the third one skills and superpowers. A fourth one is the one that we talked about earlier, which is like, what do you want to study? What's your future career? Major? And what are the instances the moments in your life that have led you to realize that this is the thing that you want to do? So that's for you. The fifth one is something like, what is your home or Where's where the different places where you feel like you find that you're in your zone. So it could be if I was writing this as my high school self, I'm at home, and I'm on the stage, when I'm performing, I'm at home when I'm writing poems, because that, you know, speaks to my reflective side, and I'm at home when I'm so it's all these different areas that are homes for me, when students could write about one particular home, like, I'm at home, when I'm editing videos, and that's their whole essay is about how that's shaped them in different ways. Or it could be that they jump around, and they're like, oh, or there's all these different places that I find that I'm at home. Another one is, and this is one of my favorites is an identity, your identities. So the student's identity could be something connected to something that they do so like I am a dancer, and but that's not the only identity, because that's the way people know me, I'm also a nerd in this particular way. And I'm also the oldest sibling, and here's how that identity manifests itself. And I love when students kind of share, you know, different identities. And then the last one is the uncommon extracurricular activity. So not football, not basketball, not you know, tennis or debate. But what's that thing that you do that is maybe a little bit unusual? You know, students in the past have heard about Dungeons and Dragons, or Magic the Gathering or, you know, beekeeping. Now, this is not for students listening, you know, you need to write about beekeeping in order to have an interesting essay, but some students do write about things that they are interested in. And it is, it's, there's something that's like, it's it's technically kind of an extracurricular activity, but it's like those unusual ones, those those strange ones, I think, can make for an interesting personal statement. And these different types, like they can totally overlap. So the essence object that you mentioned, for example, that not only represents a symbol that's important to you, but it represents an identity. And that connects to certain values. And so a question to explore would be okay, well, based on this, do we want to just like, free right on that identity? Or continue to brainstorm like, Okay, well, what are other different ways that you identify, and how has each one of those become an important part of who you are? So my point like big picture, and these can overlap. By that, I mean, you know, it could be that several essence objects represent different identities. But big picture, there's so many different ways that you can write a personal statement, so many different ways to generate interesting content that don't necessarily have to be connected to your greatest challenge, as it were. Tom Campbell 17:56 And a lot so the essays that you are the buckets that you kind of describe the paths that you described are often ones where the montage essay, that structure is now not we talk a lot about having a lot of merits, because it allows you to be that multi dimensional person that you are, allows you to kind of maximize I guess those 650 words, and not have it necessarily be about a single part of who you are. So I don't know, if you want to maybe yeah, just anything, you know, make that distinction between that montage style that you just described with those seven different pas, and then that narrative style, which, you know, talking earlier about the students who do want to write about those challenges they've overcome. Oftentimes, that path is preferred for that particular topic. Idea. Yeah. Ethan Sawyer 18:36 So when it comes to writing a personal statement, in terms of the structure of it, we talk about montage, and we talk about narrative. So a narrative is that challenges based, you know, movie essay that we're used to, from all the personal statements where the students like, here's the challenge, here's what I did about it, here's what I learned. Everything that I just talked about, is essentially taking a theme, and connecting it to different moments, memories, experiences, or values. And so what I when we say, montage, what we're talking about is just like a movie, a series of moments, or images that are connected by a common thread or theme. So anything in either things I just mentioned, something that you love, or know a lot about could be that connective thread or theme. And identity could be that connective theme or thread, essentially, you just need something that you can one, say a lot about in my a lot, I mean, at least a page, you can read a page on it. And two, I think it's really important for it to be elastic, which is to say stretchy enough to talk about different sides of you. Because if you just got that job at that summer ice cream shop, it may not be the most elastic topic and may not connect to as many sides of you as something that you've maybe been experiencing for longer or something that you're just way into. So that something to think about. And then the third quality that I think is I think could be really important for students. Is that uncommon ness and I don't I don't think it's like there are common topics and uncommon topics. I think it's kind of all on a spectrum, and we can take something like football or basketball and be like, clearly on the common side of the spectrum using but his students are assessing, for example, how do I stand out? What I think we're looking for is like, is there something that's slightly more uncommon, it doesn't have to be as wild as beekeeping or like blacksmithing, as the student wrote about once, or parkour, because they're like, why? It doesn't have to be on that far, far end of the spectrum. But we're looking for something that on this sort of like, are more students can be reading about or fewer, we're looking for something that's a little bit more uncommon, Tom Campbell 20:33 right? So like, a football and faith essay, like football is the thing that got me, you know, church, wasn't it? It was football, like, I mean, that could be like the opening line or something. Right. And it's, it's that kind of like, unexpected, Ethan Sawyer 20:44 I find God and football Tom Campbell 20:46 and football. You know, I don't know if I would exactly approach it that way. But I definitely think that yeah, connecting those kind of, quote, unquote, common topics with those uncommon values, or qualities, or, or connections is definitely something that, you know, as someone who read applications, it does catch your eye. And it does like make you want to keep reading total as he how that connection is fully flushed out. Yeah. Ethan Sawyer 21:11 And there are a couple of ways to do that one of them that you're pointing to, I just want to like name for folks. So on a meta level, you can take that common topic, like football and connect it with something that you wouldn't think you would go with. So one student, for example, was writing about business, and I've read so many why I want to get into business essays. But she also really loved plants. And so planted business, those don't go together. Or do they? Like that's where I start to get excited? And I'm like, Okay, how do plants business can because that's going to make for a much more interesting who's Tom Campbell 21:39 gonna say, tell, tell, that's all the SE entrepreneurs who are designing their terrarium, and God knows what, right. Ethan Sawyer 21:45 And the other thing about the common topics is that you can actually stand out with a common topic, potentially. So here's what like my sort of framework for this is like, the difference between a boring personal statement and a standout one, I think starts with the topic. And is it a common topic or a more uncommon topic? Right? So is it football? Or is it something that is less football? The second thing is sort of like the connections that you're making. And you just pointed to this with values. So if I'm making common connections, so for football, that might be like, discipline, hard work, perseverance, maybe gonna blend in. But if I'm making more uncommon connections, like football taught me about faith football, told me about community in football. Tell me about social justice. Yeah, I want to read that essay like that starts to get that and it shows a critical and creative mind. Yep. And then for the last one, I think those common or uncommon insights, so the common insights for football might sound something like this are the sowhat moments that I mentioned, might sound like, teamwork makes the dream work, or and I realized that all of my experiences have shaped who I am, right. And anything that tells you it's anything that you could put on a Hallmark card is probably gonna say, what are we writing? But you know, and that's how football taught me once during the past, you know, football made him a better reader. And he went into like, the details about how football helped him analyze the defense, and you know, sort of be able to critically think about what was going to happen next and predict. And he connected that to how he became a critical thinker. And in the classroom. Yeah, that starts to get a little bit more interesting. And it leads to things that we wouldn't expect you to say. And that's what I think we're talking about insights that we're looking for. It's like, what are those pathways to saying things that the reader goes? Oh, as opposed to? You know, Tom Campbell 23:30 it's so Hana. So shout out to Donna. Yeah, everyone who'd be like, who's on oh, we need to know where I'm like truck. You do need to know her. She's all over our channel, different webinars, search Hatha colleges. I got workshops galore. Yes, just she's a mastermind. And I think you know, when putting together that kind of like perfect montage essay, you know, that kind of just feels like the ratios are all working you know, and there's the right amount of words allocated to fully flush out and insight that's another area where I think just like some practical tips like that, I like to give out our you know, it's not like you want to pics for so for example, like the uncommon extracurricular activity and be like, I need to have like seven different mini paragraphs about wall the different moments where I've juggled in what was it juggling juggling while jogging while juggling, I'm gonna give seven different instances of all these different things. That's it, that gives you like 20 words per paragraph, quote, unquote, which doesn't really allow you to actually make those connections as fully realized. So haven't those students that you know, getting that common theme that you want to kind of have like multiple body paragraphs be connected through and maybe stick inside say three or four different vignettes fun yeas, totally whatever. Ethan Sawyer 24:43 Reminds us rhymes with bad yeah. Is that Tom Campbell 24:47 been yes and no, I want some chicory coffee and Cafe Du Monde. I'm like we need a little little pick me up here. But I'd say that's kind of that sweet spot right where you are allowing for that multi dimensional part of you to come through but not say analyzing or watering things down. So that is just bullet points, right? Like you don't want it to be, you know, I caution students, when you get more than five different examples of something within the theme totally, that can start to just with the words that you have that you're working with, it can prevent each paragraph from being its own standalone insight that's being put forward to the reader. And Ethan Sawyer 25:19 that's just by nature of the the word limit, like you start to get familiar with this after doing this a while where it's like, you kind of know, you can go pretty solid on three or four. If you've got 11 different things, it's hard to go in depth. So yeah, totally with her. My Tom Campbell 25:35 favorite montage essays that I read, or I was working with a student on last year was, is basically it's pretty, pretty common topic on the outside, right? When you zoom out, it's like, it's about kind of the town he comes from and what how he spends his time like, that's like the thesis statement, basically. So you're like, not sound that that's gonna crush, just like everyone in ever who's ever lived in a place. But the like kind of an opening, I lived in a place. First, I'd like to do things in that place. There are some things I do with that. And the reason we kind of that his topic, the theme ended up actually being outlaw like that was kind of like the actual theme of kind of how all the different body paragraphs were woven together. And it came from different brainstorming exercises across the board. So kind of you described those seven different paths, the home essay, the uncommon extracurricular essay, the career or major interest essay, these there were exercises that the student did that kind of, you know, we noticed that so many of them had some somewhat of like an outlier, or outlaw theme to them. And he talked about actually this Josey Wales poster that was from his grandpa well, and how it like they used to connect over old westerns. Yeah. And then I was like, Well, this is kind of like an outlaw example. And this is an outlaw example. And that kind of became a thing that wove through the different paragraphs together, it was, oh, I'm an outlaw, in my family, because we breakfast for dinner. Yeah. And that's like, not that typical. And we do have these different traditions and whatnot that are, you know, both really commonly southern where I'm from, but also not at the same time. Ethan Sawyer 27:05 That's so good. It's because it points to that on commonality that like, sort of like, there is a way that other people do things. But we do it this other way. And it sets up in a great way that expectation for the year. Tom Campbell 27:15 And the next, the next paragraph is like, Oh, I'm also really into history, and I'm in the historical society, and everyone else around me is like, you know, 60 plus. And here I am, like teaching them how to, like, log on to a computer. And like, you know, what, here's what's the password, right? Like, that was kind of like the theme of this kind of like compassionate, you know, kind of bridge building side across generations, that's cool inside of who he was. Yeah. And there was no two other ones in there as well. But I guess the point of bringing this up is like, you can kind of take things from your quote unquote, typical life, and using that kind of artistry, and that that craft ability to make connections between these different things, and what the commonality is, really helps the reader kind of finish reading the essay and feel like okay, everything flowed. Yeah, everything was cohesive. But it wasn't the same paragraph over and over, right. And I think when you can really do that, that's the sweet spot. Ethan Sawyer 28:05 Totally. And it's important, you talked about, like some of those, because that sounds like an essay that's gonna go in a lot of different places. It's so important for students. This is like a practical tip to make sure that you set up that theme clearly at the start. And I think it's in the first paragraph, a second paragraph, the latest, because you don't want to leave the reader wondering, what is this? What are we doing here? Yeah, so there needs to be that I call it the college essay sentence that lets us know what that theme or thread is, because if we're four paragraphs, and we've seen the word outlaw appear a lot of different times, but we're like, we're kind of all over the map here. Like there needs to be something that anchors us because otherwise, the readers brain is going to be sort of like away, think of it as like RAM, it's going to be kind of caught up in trying to figure out what the topic is and like Orient, essentially, and you don't want them distracted. You want them to know, like, this is an essay about that my identity is an outlaw. Yeah. And then here's some different examples of that. It doesn't have to walk us through Tom Campbell 28:57 something that arose at a time when you worked with the student from kind of point A to point B. Yeah. And kind of what it took to get to that final essay product. Yeah. And going to those brainstorming exercises and themes. Ethan Sawyer 29:09 Yeah, totally. So before I even meet with a student, I'd love to see a ton of brainstorming work. And, you know, some of the exercises that I mentioned are there. And when we meet, I'm also looking at like, parent homework, you know, questions that they would ask and sometimes a parents gonna say something that's like, really like, Oh, great. And the thing that you wouldn't even like learn about until like, the fifth time that you've seen a student. So I'll give an example. A student that I worked with a few years ago, in his brainstorming work, the common theme, it was pretty clear it because he had, you know, projects that he'd worked on around it was food. And I was like, it was pretty obvious and he joked about it. He's like, I'm probably gonna end up writing something about food. I'm like, okay, cool. I was like, so how do you make something like food stand out? That was sort of the question and one of the early things and one of the things that I'm will kind of do and an early Session is like, is there some way that I can get a student sort of lit up to start writing about the thing. And so one of the ways that I'll do that, practically speaking is like helping them look at values that connect to their particular topic. So this case food. So what I asked them was like, Alright, when you think about food, what are the different values that come up for you? And there's like, a list of values will link to in the shout outs, and a student can look and be like, Okay, there's this value, and there's this value, and there's this value. Great. Are there examples of these? And so the homework that I send me away with was like, I want you to just write a bunch of examples of food stories, we're going to call them. Calvin, on our team calls with a pile of stuff. And what is the diff? What are the different food moments, memories, experiences? So we came back, and the next week we met and we looked at it, and it seems like within each of these, there was some kind of like, little lesson that he was learning. And the next homework assignment was okay, could you hone in on what the lessons were like food lessons. And so from that emerged, the theme of like, okay, lessons that I've learned from food. And for really a few weeks, he was writing an essay about like, food has taught me lots of lessons, it was very direct and straightforward. And then what started to emerge is, some of the food lessons were a little bit more uncommon than others. So there was the lesson on how food and working around working in food shelter taught them about discipline and hard work and perseverance. And oftentimes, when I see a common one, I'll ask students, okay, what's the opposite of that? In? And he's like, What do you mean, the opposite of like, discipline, hard work, perseverance? What's the opposite? He's like, being lazy? And I was like, Yeah, you know? And I was like, Well, what else is important in it? Like, what's the positive version of it? He's like, okay, not being disciplined, like being creative, being new, you know, self care, resting. And I'm like, Yeah, this starts to sound interesting. So it's like, rather than go without hard driving thing, that maybe somebody else is gonna say, what's the opposite of this? And can Are there examples where food has helped you connect with creativity, or help you learn about self care, etc. So essentially, we're kind of poking and prodding to try and find uncommon connections, especially because it's a common topic, because with a common topic, like food, there gonna be other students writing about food, I've now seen a dozen food essays, you know, so finding those uncommon connections. And then the student was really hard worker, he just spent, you know, draft after draft, like revising. So that this was an essay that he felt like, Okay, this really represents different sides of me, that aren't going to be in my activities listed aren't going to be in my Additional Information section. He was really interesting, highly selective schools. So it was important, his personal statement wasn't also overlapping with, for example, you know, his involvement. He was also like, competing for the starting quarterback position, but he didn't want to write the football essay. And I said, Great, that can be in another essay. But long story longer, essentially, he was able to find these uncommon connections and write a series of vignettes, he was set up the beginning, this is going to be a food. So he basically showed different sides of himself. And what sets that food essay apart from another students is the uncommon connections. And I think those those values that we wouldn't necessarily expect. And one of the things I'll say is like, better ingredients better. Yep. Papa John's, sponsored by Papa John's now, better college essay and ingredients. To me, are those values, like, what are those different sides of you that you're connecting with in the food essay, or the football essay? And that's gonna make for more interesting pizza essay. And then the other thing that I think helped set it apart is those those insights, those moments where he says a thing in a way that I didn't expect, or he points to something that I, you know, that surprises me. And so, ultimately, you know, yeah, he had a great process, it turned out really well. But the the main thing for me is not, you know, he ended up getting into grad school, etc. But the main thing for me was like, for me, what I want students to feel that they have a process in terms of their personal statement is like, did I feel like, this is the best I could do? Do I feel like my skills, qualities, values and interests are represented this application? And there's like, a kind of sense of ease that I'm hoping for, and again, a sense of like, letting go, where it's not about like, God, I hope I get it. Yeah, sure. We, you know, try hard and hope for a great result. But I want a student to feel when they see their application. I feel like this was me. And if they don't want me, that's, that's all I could do. And there's not much more that I could control because there's so much that students can't control, you know, but that's, that's the hope. And I think that's how we ended up feeling ultimately, and this is a special kid. But ultimately, he was able to sort of let go and feel that the process itself was gratifying. And not that it wasn't that his success wasn't necessarily only dependent on where he got in or didn't get ahead. If he got into like this school versus the school. He was sort of like I think along the way, one of the things we talked about is like, what does success look like for you in this process? And for me, there's so much more. It's not about the college application, per se. Sure, that's the presenting thing. But this is really much more about who he was discovering himself to be and how his experiences have led him to this moment and and it's you know, this is just sort of a sliver a snapshot in time before he goes off to college and beyond. But what is the tumbling forward? Sort of like, this is the latest version of me represented? And then, you know, let that let that speak as I'm Tom Campbell 35:15 going on. Now I'm hungry, and I actually live I think that's a big closing line of that. So I actually like it is now yeah, I'm just gonna say, Yeah, well, no one before we'll link it in the show notes specifically hungry for garlic sauce, Allah, Papa John's, oh my gosh, again, here for it. It's literally oil and oil. Oh, my Ethan Sawyer 35:31 gosh, that was me in college was just the breadsticks and just goof off, did I get four more of these for that will be $6? How does the student know when it's done? Some of the qualities that we talk about, number one, do your core values come through? And can you point to specific moments of the essay? When it's like, oh, yes, this is revealing this side of me This is revealing this side of me, etc? And can you find at least four or five moments where your values are clearly coming through? Part one? Number two, do I have some insights? Do I have two or three moments where I say something that the reader may not expect? Third, is this personal statement? Actually personal. And we'll kind of give it a vulnerability test sometimes of like, it doesn't need to be level 10 vulnerable. But we're kind of looking for that five to seven range. Maybe some students, it's just all about activities and driving, it kind of stays on the surface. Are there moments where you let the reader in a little bit and show him your heart? I think that's really important. And it doesn't have to be your deepest, darkest secrets, you can be vulnerable by describing something that you just love. And then that that craft and by craft, it's a really loaded term. But it's something like is it clear that this has been revised over several drafts? You know, do we see that, you know, there's a clear structure in place. And that's something that just comes comes with, with doing a few drafts. Tom Campbell 36:43 So ideally, after you finish that great college essay test, you feel you feel good about things, I think something that can be tempting is for students to keep going back and being like, How can I change like one or two, right? Or it's to like, make it perfect. And something that I often say to students is like, really kind of having a really good sense in your mind of like, what's a substantive move, if a paragraph doesn't have its own site connected to it, that's a substantive move that I think I need to invest some time on before I feel like this is complete. Yeah, this is a lateral move, swap, swapping from using, you know, benevolent to generous, is not gonna make any difference in your process. From a mathematical standpoint, you're not tilting the needle in any way. So I think that's another thing that I'd say when students approach those final stages. And they, it can be tempting to want to just keep going over and over and over and questioning a particular sentence or phrase, or should this be a semicolon or a dash, to who cares? Right, literally, right? At that point, the person reading through it again, they're going through quickly, they want those insights, they want those key, those core values that you're bringing to their campus, and they're not sitting there, you know, doing a ton of like, judging of like, oh, this should have been a compound sentence and minus 10. Or this, you know, there's not this like red ink that's being spilled across your page, right? They're usually highlighting things that stand out to them, right, they're not crossing out or pointing out things that they didn't like, as much they have, they don't have time for that, quite frankly, they need to give themselves material to advocate for you. And when you have that, and at the very least like run your essay through Grammarly brave like, give it a kind of like once over from, you know, some we have great tools at our disposal to help make sure that things you have are polished and clean, and they're not riddled with typos or errors. And speaking of tools at our disposal, we're living in a time right, where artificial intelligence is constantly on a daily basis. Yeah, advancing and, you know, Chat GPT and tools like it, you know, the the 1.0 to the 2.0, big leaps when it comes to sophistication and the capacity of tools to be able to write full blown articles or reports. So for students and families wondering, is there a place for artificial intelligence in the college essay, particularly the personal statement writing process? What would you say to those families? Ethan Sawyer 38:57 So what I'll say is like, I think at this point of as of this recording, colleges are still kind of figuring out what is this thing? And how do we look for it like plagiarism detectors is in some of them work, some of them don't. So what we're telling students, what I'm telling students is like, tread carefully, you know, be careful if you're using Chat GPT. Because there could be questions that ask, Hey, how did you use it the process? What did you use in the process? And just you really want to be prepared to answer that, but tread carefully. But the main thing that I think if Chat GPT becomes widely used, and is I think, what I think Chat GPT can help students think more critically or come up with ideas, if used correctly, but I think that what for some students might go away is that the process the sort of what I would call like, nutritional process of going through thinking through figuring out what your thoughts are, and putting them on a page. I think that can actually teach us a ton about how our brains work about who we are. And I think automating that I I think we would miss out on something really important. No? Sure, maybe we can get some of that in other ways, but I feel like that would be my biggest concern with, you know, if Chat GPT just became incredibly widespread. Yeah, Tom Campbell 40:12 yeah, I like to help students like thinking of Chat GPT kind of as your sounding board, especially if you don't have one, right, we have students who are coming from environments where, you know, some students work with an essay coach, they work with a, you know, college counselor, to really kind of help them through the things that we described, right? Those those brainstorming processes and having that person to be that sounding board of like, Hey, me working on the food shelter? You know, and having that connected to hard work. And perseverance is that like a basic connection? Like, you know, your student had a sounding where my student had a sounding board, and really not everyone has that, right. So I think, when you can use artificial intelligence to be that presence, especially if you don't have someone, if you're the first in your family to go to college, you go to a high school where your college counselor isn't able to meet and sit down with you to kind of brainstorm some of some of these ideas of his questions that you have for yourself, Chat. GPT can be you know, to some degree, that figure right and, and that human connection is obviously ideal if you can, if you can have your essay be you know, you don't want this just have chat to be TV that maybe the only sounding word may be like a friend or someone who knows your tone of voice or the way that you typically speak and can kind of be that like, this sounds like you like as sounds like kind of the person that I know and who I love. So check to be doesn't, isn't able to know that quite as much really excited, Ethan Sawyer 41:25 though. And quick plug for match letters. So students are listening to this. And you're like, I'm a low income students, I'd love essay hop, we have a program, we work with hundreds of students each year, we'll link to it in the show notes where we will pair you with a counselor for one on one support. So, you know, if you if you're listening to this, and you're like, that sounds awesome. We'll link to in the show notes. We'd love for you to apply. Tom Campbell 41:45 Yeah. And so actually on top of equity, that's another big change. That's kind of common in the recent admission landscape. Is Supreme Court putting a ban on race conscious admission? Or how would you say that this Supreme Court decision and kind of the way that essays have now kind of become an increased presence in helping being a place for students to kind of talk about their identities and where they're coming from? How has that kind of evolved this past year in particular? Yeah, Ethan Sawyer 42:10 so this is something in see previous podcast episodes on this for those who are interested in this. But you know, essentially what happened is, the Supreme Court said, Okay, you can't check a box for race the application. And so what happened is a lot of colleges, and we'll talk about this on part two of the podcast changed their supplemental essay prompts, where they're now asking about identity, and they're asking students like, in different ways, hey, is there anything else about you, we should know, you know, and they're creating these opportunities. And from conversations with different admission officers, they're like, yeah, the essays really matter. Especially Yes, for this for we're talking about in terms of student's identity, because colleges want to let's be really real colleges want to enroll a diverse class. And they're interested in diversity in many different ways, racial diversity being one of them. But the essay is an important way that students do that. But the other thing that's shifted in a big way was, you know, testing kind of going away, essentially. And so as colleges are looking for, what are some of the differentiators? You know, and they don't have test scores, they're looking to essays more. So essays have become, in some ways, more important than they were, you know, a few years ago. But yeah, in particular, as it relates to the Supreme Court decision, I want to talk let's talk more about that. In the supplemental essays, one, because it's, that's where it's showing up. I think a lot more, I think, I'll say that there's a whole guide on this, by the way that we wrote on, like, how to write about if you do decide that you want to write about race in your application, should you or should you not? And how do you decide? It's connected to, I think identities and we can think about identities in the broad sense. There are also students who are listening to this and going well, I'm not a student of color. And I'm interested in, you know, talking about my identities. Great, there's still a place for you to do that. And there are ways for you to do that. And there are exercises that you can, you know, again, see previous podcasts and do that. So, but I think that, yeah, we've definitely seen a shift in terms of essays in the state of college admissions report that you mentioned, you know, reflects that. Tom Campbell 44:04 Yeah. So I feel like fully voiced listening have a clearer sense of why essays are important, particularly, you know, at this current era of applying to college. But I want to kind of close out with just asking you, Ethan, like, why are essays important to you? Like, what do you think they have the capacity to do for students? Why do you think it's, it's a worthwhile rite of passage for students? Ethan Sawyer 44:25 So a couple things. One is like, I am a writer, so I'm biased, and I like writing in my life has, I forget who said this, but it was like I write, to learn how I think, and I think it's helped me personally figure out what's going on in here. And also like, what I feel it has helped me figure out who I am in many ways. And so I think that I am super biased. I just bias alert on that regard. I think that for students going through this process, there aren't you mentioned rites of passage. There aren't too many rites of passage in our culture, then I'm just speaking about like, American culture and I feel like this is one that students are incentivized to do that deep personal growth work. And that's what I'm here for, you know, is that, who am I? What am I? What do I care about? Why do I care about these things? And to have to say that to someone, in essentially, read aloud, it's about three minutes is like, yeah, it's some work. But it feels like really worthwhile work. Because I think on the other side of it, students end up becoming a lot more confident, they become a lot more self assured, you know, their ability to speak about themselves in the world, when they eventually universe students who don't end up going to college, who are doing job interviews, like having gone through the process of like, writing about themselves, to me feels like so, so valuable, I'm super biased. And I think another big part of it, too, is like, growing up, we'll maybe we'll do a separate podcast on like, why college doesn't even started. But like, I think I was looking for psychological safety, because I grew up moving around a lot. And I think I was looking for ways to essentially connect with others. And I found that when I was working with twins, on their personal statements, they were connecting much more deeply with themselves. And there were interesting connections that were happening with the people who are in their lives, like their parents, or siblings, or mentor or counselor. And there were interesting connections that were happening, as a result of this thing, this process this thing that they were writing. And so I think that like, for me, when I think about like, a healthy world, a happy world, it's one where people are a little bit more connected, a little bit more connected to one another, what we care about what we need, understanding our own needs better. I think college essays can help with that. Yeah. And ultimately building more empathy, empathy for ourselves and empathy for one another. So it's deep work. And like I said, it's, it's about so the college just is about so much more than just a college essay. Yeah. Tom Campbell 46:44 The personal statement process, obviously, we've touched on is very subjective in many ways. Because actually, for me, it's funny, I'm kind of, you know, I sometimes provide a contrast, like, as someone who like, doesn't identify as a writer, like that hasn't been a way historically, that I felt connected to myself or have been able to realize parts of my identity or the person I want to be in this world, I've definitely really come to value reflection, and a lot of that has come from my own experience going to judge a particularly a Jesuit College, doing a Jesuit postgraduate service program. So my, I guess, my kind of take out the light, like the why behind college essays is that, like, I love helping people reach their goals, right. And the personal statement process, at least currently, right now is a part of a process to be able to gain access to doors and opportunities and things you want to do with your life that really are going to fill your cup and make you feel purposeful. Yeah, you know, and for that reason, like that is kind of something that motivates me to help students with this process. So it can be really deep it can be there can be students who really do go deeper than what they expect. But I also have other students where I want to tell them to like, take that pressure, I guess, on their shoulders to be like, it has to be this like incredibly profound, like, I'm going to have this in a frame. And like, you know, if I deathbed, I'm going to be like, look at that story that I wrote that perfectly encapsulated my life at 17, or 18. We're fluid people, we're always constantly growing and improving. But I think that this, this phase, this ability to self reflect, and this ability to invest time and energy, like really substantially into something that really is important to you, which are these amazing options for higher education that we have in the US, that's a worthwhile cause. And if you commit to it and fully fully commit, you're building out habits and a precedent for a long life and career of like really going all in for the things that you want to have in your life. So I think the personal statement can be for many students, of course, many of them come with areas where they've worked hard, and areas of life where they've gone all in. But in going all in with something that sometimes isn't always as comfortable, especially if you're not that student who loves writing, they think you can actually be really empowering to be like, I'm not a writer, and look what happened in the end, like I was able to go to the school that I feel really meets my needs, or is really going to help me be the person I want to be. That can be really empowering to be like, yeah, it wasn't my thing, quote, unquote, I still did it. And it wasn't always easy. But like, in the end, it was worth it. Because I got to that I'm at the endpoint. Yeah. Ethan Sawyer 49:14 I love what you're saying here. And if I were to like, college essay, this podcast real quick, a theme that I'm saying is, it's something like dichotomies like contrast. So and I don't know if it was who was attributed to this, but like any deep truth, the opposite is also true. So I'm hearing some different, potentially contrasting truths and what we've shared today. So for example, this last one that you brought up, which is like the, it's meaningful, it's deep. And it's also it's not that deep, like a thing you got to do. But this is about getting into college. It's also not about getting into QA. Yeah, it's about showing this particular thing that's going to improve your chances. Also, it's about this process that you're going through, you know, it's Important to anyway, the we could, if we were to replay the tape, we could find a series of, you know, sort of opposites I think and I don't know if that leaves students with a sense of like, awe, or a sense of like, okay, you know, for each of these things, the opposite could also be true. It kind of comes back to that theme of the it depends idea. Yeah. But yeah, it's, it's part of what's made this whole process and this whole career really like really gratifying because it's pushing and pulling on me in different and interesting ways. And I'll go, you know, deep on one particular aspect of this process, and then I'll realize, oh, wow, the opposite is also really important. So that's why it's been really, I think, for me, like personally, it's led to a lot of growth and discovery and awesomeness. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the show notes at college essay guy.com/podcast, including our free guide to the personal statement, which walks you through some of the brainstorming exercises I talked about. It's got tips on structuring your essay, example essays, and lots more. on next week's episode, we'll dive into all the other written parts of the application including the activities list, the Additional Information section and the supplemental essays piece. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
