715: On Becoming: The Art and Craft of Personal Storytelling (Ep 12: The Translator) with Lavon Robinson

Tom Campbell (00:08)
Hello, friends, and welcome back to our series on becoming the art and craft of personal storytelling. I'm Tom Campbell, former Pomona and Holy Cross Admission Officer, and one of the CEG podcast co-hosts, alongside my lovely colleagues, Tillie and Ethan. And in this series, we take a close look at personal essays written by real students, talking about why we love them, what makes them work, and how they came to be. In this episode, I break down an essay that we're calling the Translator.

And the student who worked with one of our amazing essay coaches, Lavon Robinson, a few years back, wanted to share how he acted as a translator, not just for his brother on the autism spectrum, but for other neurodiversion students in his school and wider community. It's a model for anyone who wants to write an essay about a relationship that's been particularly meaningful to them, but is nervous about making the essay too much about the other person. If you're the kind of person who enjoys seeing how things get made, whether it's a great meal, a film scene, or a piece of writing,

I have a feeling you're gonna enjoy this one. But first, let's meet Lavon. Lavon has always been a coach. For managing fundraising campaigns, teaching swimming, and school counseling, Lavon finds joy in coaching others to find their joy. He earned his BA in business from Illinois Wesleyan University and his master's in education from DePaul University. He also has a college counseling certificate from the UCSD. Currently works as a school counselor at an independent school in Chicago.

After spending eight years as a college counselor at a larger suburban high school, his students have been accepted to colleges including Northwestern, USC, Williams, University of Florida, and so much more. At the core of his work is building connections and unconditional positive regard as he works with students to build trust and reach their potential. He understands that the college admission process is stressful, but he takes the most joy in supporting students to relieve anxiety as they're moving through it. We hope you enjoyed the episode.

All right, Lavon, so awesome to have you on the College of Guy podcast. We have met several times in Zoom and in person, but it's great to kind of have you have you in this in this new journey. How does it feel to be on on record?

Lavon Robinson (02:20)
It is nice try something new in my time with CEG and chat with you from social media videos to like NACE to working with essay students to doing a complete application review. It's nice now to try out the podcast.

Tom Campbell (02:38)
Absolutely. You truly have done it. I feel like it all when it comes to like our offerings at College Essenti Guy. So so glad to have you here.

And we're gonna go segue to the reason that we're here today, which is to dive into on this series of On Becoming here at College Sigai, the art of storytelling through the personal statement process. So we're gonna zero in on a student that Livon worked with a couple seasons ago.

But before we get into that, Loan, it would be great to just kind of more formally introduce you to our listeners, our audience, and you know, tell us a little bit about kind of your history working with students as a counselor and what brought you to this wonderful world of college admissions and counseling.

Lavon Robinson (03:15)
Yeah,

so I like did undergrad, was working in sports and working in like nonprofit and fundraising and I wanted to have something with more like impact directly. And I enjoyed working with students because their friends are going through the same stuff and they're often not like vibing with their parents. So a school counseling role would be who I thought would be really good for me. And then as I got into the school, I was really fascinated by the college process of

Finding that mix between colleges being a place of like higher learning and growth, but also a business, and then getting really interested in the missions process and how politics play into it. So from there, I maybe three years into my work as a college counselor, I was working part-time for a nonprofit, helping low-income first-generation students with the college process. And it's something that I really enjoyed. And at the same time, I was getting my college counseling certificate.

And we had to like do a book report for like an assignment. I was like, okay, let me just find a book to skim. And I was like, college essay guys book wasn't very long. I was read this, I was read this. And I was just fascinated by like how the essay can help a student showcase all their values and what's cool about them. And at a time when students are kind of insecure and unsure, the essay was a way to really help them like develop their voice. So then from there,

My time wrapped up with the nonprofit and I was looking for other things. And every once in a while I would go to the College SA God website to see what openings there were. And I saw this job as an essay coach. So now I've been doing that for four seasons. I'm diving into my fifth season now as an essay coach. And I was a college counselor for eight years. And now I'm a school counselor at an independent school and continuing to do the work with CEG and helping students find their voice and feel more confident and less anxious about.

What is next in the comments process?

Tom Campbell (05:14)
my God. So many things I loved about that intro. First of all, you know you're speaking by language and you're talking about that balancing, you know, act of the college admission process being places for personal growth and development. And I'm big on yes, and and the business side too. And we have so much content, you know, around that's that's a big part of my work is like, you know, bringing the behind the scenes windows into admissions to the public to help them better understand how these decisions really are made in real time. But I like that this series that we're doing right now is kind of

really focusing more so on that personal growth, personal development side because yeah, I feel like it's it's easy to yeah, get like really you can get caught up with like some of the transactional pieces of how this process can go. And there's a lot of it's a lot, that's the way that a lot of people frame it, but it is great to reflect back on kind of like students you've worked with and like takeaways that they share with you in terms of like the impact that you had in being a guide and a resource and a thought partner. And yeah, I'm so glad that you're here at college as a guy doing this work.

with us and yeah and also doing it in the school setting too because I feel like that has a total different, you know, energy and cadence as well when you're like in it real time with the students in that brick and mortar setting. So love that. You mentioned you worked in sports before coming to college. What was your what was your role in sports?

Lavon Robinson (06:32)
I worked at a team. I was not I mean, I am an athlete, but I was not like an athlete on the field. So the team essentially has a nonprofit arm. So we were like doing fundraising and player appearances and like going to the zoo and doing outreach. So very much like the nonprofit side of sports.

Tom Campbell (06:52)
I love that. And you were saying to me that, you know, in terms of, hey, you know, lots of you've you've been with College S guy for the, you know, this is now your fifth year. You were saying that kind of you tend to have students you get paired with students who maybe have more of like a sports background, or tell me a little bit maybe about the types of students that you feel like you find yourself really vibing with or that you feel like you get, you know, Calvin, shout out to Calvin, our head of coaching with his wiz wizarding skills. He's such a great, you know, part of the work at College S guy is when

We have in our team of essay coaches, you get paired with students and it's kind of like you know, matchmaking a little bit, right? Cause they share information about things that they're looking for in a coach, whether it's I really want someone who's gonna like keep me on with deadlines or I want someone who's gonna be like help me tap into my creativity. And it's nice when yeah, you you you oftentimes we'll get students who are like, I I know why they're here. Like I know where they're they're coming to me. And I love that. So maybe tell us a little bit about just like, yeah, the types of students that you find yourself working with.

Lavon Robinson (07:51)
Yeah, I at some point I need to ask Calvin like how this works out because kinda like you said, I am a sports fan and I like I can use my school counseling skills to pull out the interesting and best aspects of them. But it just seems like every time I'm not every time, but often when I go through their brainstorming activities and like fantasy football and basketball and football and like all these other sports related things often are what I see in my students.

But also students who are really driven, really focused, really want to like do the work and put together like a strong product are students that I o am often paired with and students that I enjoy working with.

Tom Campbell (08:34)
Yeah, I love that. And and something that you mentioned to, you know, as well is that part of this process, you know, is very unfamiliar to students because most students I mean, shout out to like the Waldorf schools out there and like, you know, some educational environments that really build in very consistently. You know, for example, I went to a Jesu Jesuit college and university, you know, so there's a big emphasis on self-reflection and discernment and understanding your calling, but a lot of people don't really get that.

In their educational journey. So you're you're kind of talking about, yeah, maybe some of the students that you work with, like that reflect reflection piece being like a real challenge or like new landscape to step into. Can you talk talk maybe a little bit more about how that unfolds with students and yeah, how how you feel like you help make it maybe like an open place for them to kind of go to that place of inner work?

Lavon Robinson (09:29)
One of my favorite parts of this role are the first few sessions when we're going through the brainstorming exercises and just starting with the values exercise to help them like tell me stories about their values and where they come up and like what excites them and like the why. And even in my role as a school counselor, sometimes when students are stuck and anxious, I try to help them point back to their values and their identities and or helping to remind them that like you're unsure you're stuck, but these are your cool values. So

You don't know what's decision to make. Let's key in on these core values and that's how you can make a decision. So even outside of my essay work, I still use these college essay guy exercises to help students feel more confident, more sure in themselves, like less anxious, and in some ways use it as a counseling technique to get them back on like flat footing, equal ground, ready to go to continue their day.

Tom Campbell (10:26)
Yeah. And actually I'm gonna turn the tables on you. So speaking of helping students reflect, why don't you reflect for me a little bit on thinking about now having worked in school settings, having worked, you know, with students through college essay guy, what are maybe some of the things that have like surprised you about being an essay coach and like doing this work and maybe some of the areas where you feel like you've grown the most or your awareness or you know, perspective has shifted after after doing this?

Lavon Robinson (10:49)
Yeah. Coming into this work, I thought it was gonna be a lot of like commas and sentence structure. And what I realized is that like 17 and 18 year olds need to sound like 17 and 18 year olds. So it's less of that. It's a lot of just helping students find that voice and like keying in details and asking them questions and giving them a space to reflect to figure out like what are they passionate about? What are the details that need to come out? And I love at the end of sessions when I'm working with students and I'm like, remember that ridiculous.

That really small detail we were talking about for 20 minutes and brainstorming, this is going to be the perfect way to end your sentence. So I like that. And over the time, I've like built more confidence in that an essay doesn't have to be about like one thing. We can write an essay about anything. And if you're confident about it, if it tells your story, if people can connect with it. One of the one of my favorite all-time essays that I have helped the student with is just like,

her experience with going to concerts and getting her nose peers and how she had built a level of confidence over her years. And I feel so like a sense of pride that I can help her like on one hand, write this essay, but really just become more confident and sure about what matters to her as she goes into adulthood.

Tom Campbell (12:06)
I love it so much. And I I've read that essay. You sent that along. And yeah, it's that's one of those essays where like you read it and you feel just like so happy for the student when you get to the end of like, I love that you got to this point in your life, like when you're getting to it, because it takes some people really long time to like get to that place of self love and self acceptance. And so yeah, to know that you help facilitate that in some way is yeah, it's really rewarding. So yeah. Thanks for sharing that.

Yeah, thanks for all right. Well my pleasure. Well, zeroing in on the student that we're, you know, the the star of today's podcast is funny enough, like not here. but we're gonna be talking a lot about him and his process and your work with him. So yeah, so this this student, I don't know, we haven't officially picked the title for this essay because you know, just for all of you who are tuning into the podcast, sometimes people will ask me, like, do I need to have a title for my essay? No, you don't. Oftentimes we have titles for essays that we like

shoes and make up because we need to have something to refer to when we're saying like, the laptop sticker essay or, you know, whatever it is. So this one I'm like, should we call it like the Alvin and the Chipmunk essay? Like what do you what do you think we would we would call this one?

Lavon Robinson (13:19)
Maybe like the translator or like the advocator? I don't know. Maybe afterwards I'll text him to see like what he thinks would be Yeah.

Tom Campbell (13:31)
Great. Yeah. Write that down. Let's dive into the star of today's podcast who is not here, but we're gonna we're calling him the translator for now. This is a nice little pseudonym. But yeah, tell us a little bit about this student, you know, and your introduction to him when you first met. You know, of course, when we're paired with students, we get a little bit of information about them, but then it's really through that brainstorming document, that multi-page glorious masterpiece that students work on that we really start to get to know who they are beyond.

you know, what house will they go to and stats and their, you know, major interests and all that.

Lavon Robinson (14:06)
Yeah, so he came to CEG a little bit later, I want to say in August, and he was already working with an essay coach. But I don't exactly know why he came to us, but I'm happy that he did. And he already had multiple drafts related to his brother. And he was such a good writer and a storyteller that we had to be really intentional about cutting out some of that in imagery and making sure we're finding a way to focus on him and less on his brother and making it more of like this less of a beautiful story and more to make sure we were getting to know him.

What I loved about him is he came ready from the start to do the work and to get started. One of the things I like to work with students early in the process is because Fall gets just so busy and like senior writers are gonna hit and people are gonna get tired. So I appreciate that he came in like ready to go. From the initial brainstorming work, he was so thoughtful. He put in so much detail into the brainstorming work and it played like incredible dividends as we were going through the process. It made it a lot much easier to figure out like.

small details and stories and make connections. And one of the key things that came out for him was how he was a translator for his brother. And there's like key things from the essay that we'll notice later. You want me to tell you about the exercises that particularly worked well, like the

Tom Campbell (15:20)
I definitely yes. But I think even before that, you know, just introducing like listeners to who this student is a little bit, you know, the his brother and the relationship there and how that emerged as kind of like a central part of his identity and yeah, just a real formative connection that you know really stood out from those those initial conversations.

Lavon Robinson (15:39)
So this student's brother is on the autism spectrum. And the student just found a way pretty much his entire life to navigate how to protect his brother, be there for his brother, like stop his brother from getting bullied. And at a certain point, he realized like I can't always be his protector. I can't always be his translator. And really started to take some of his frustration and turn into advocacy.

and take some of his like gr guilt and turn it into action. And he does a really beautiful job in talking through how this came about and what he particularly did. And the cool thing about this essay is just we had to narrow it down to a few examples, but there's so many more he could have dove into included in the essay. And some of that showed up in his supplemental essays.

Tom Campbell (16:30)
Yeah. I mean, that's like a blessing and a curse, right? Of because so there are some students on the other end of the of the spectrum in terms of specificity where like they'll say, like, this is you know my values and this is how how I live it out. But then trying to get them to give an example. I'm like, we need something here. But when you have too many, it's you know, it's the curse of the 650 word limit and kind of like what's that sweet spot of you know, which examples are going to show.

Different sides of you, or maybe different admission nutrients. You know, we I know we talked a little bit about that. But yeah, I think the reason that one of the reasons I was really excited that you brought this essay and shared, you know, the story about the student with me is that, you know, there's a lot of misinformation and like misguided advice out there in the college admission world. And one common, you know, refrain that you're gonna hear a lot from people or see online is like, your your essay has to be about you. Like, don't write about anyone else.

And a lot of times, like I feel like admission officers, they always default to grandma. I don't know why that is. You know what I mean? Like I've like sat in on so many webinars or things were like, your grandma sounds great, but I'm not admitting your grandma. I'm admitting

Lavon Robinson (17:36)
Yeah, like yeah.

Tom Campbell (17:37)
it's always grandma. Why it's not grandpa?

Lavon Robinson (17:41)
I like

Tom Campbell (17:43)
Anyway, the reason I really was excited about this essay is because I think it does such a great job and like it gives that green light to students to you can still

write about a relationship and a person who has has had a significant impact on your personal growth and identity. And yes, you have to anchor this the essay in how this person changed you, how this person helped shape you, but they still can be in the essay. You know, like so I think but I think it's tough, right? Cause you would hear there's a lot of people worried about getting it wrong and like, this is gonna immediately disqualify me. And you know, these extreme notions that can

really come into the process. So I'm so glad that you were able to help this student like navigate something like this that for some students can be intimidating and, you know, they might feel like, I'm not sure how much I'm talking about me versus someone else. And like that ratio and those that balance is can be hard for people to think through.

Lavon Robinson (18:41)
Yeah. And kind of going back to your question about one the most surprising things is with this student, we did lots of drafts. So probably between five and ten drafts to get it right and like find that balance of, yeah, the brother is the star, but we really need to make sure we're learning about like I told him like learning about you and your values. And he did it really well. And he he had a good amount of success in the application process is and is going to a school that he's really excited about.

Tom Campbell (19:10)
well, that's that's the dream, right? Yeah. And it's nice when that there's that reassurance of like, you know, we're not just saying like this is a great essay for our own personal opinion and just take it or leave it. It's nice when that can also be connected to, you know, a a successful admission to process with lots of different great, exciting options that he was able to choose from. And that I think always that reassurance is definitely important. All right. Well, zeroing in on like the process piece, you know, and

Obviously, this relationship with his brother, it emerged, you know, pretty quickly early on, it seems like in your conversations and that initial brainstorming. But, you know, for those who are not aware, when we first work with students at College Essay Guy one-on-one, the brainstorming document that they fill out is quite significant. And I love what you said, Levon, about you really get out what you put in from that initial brainstorming. I think back to the students that I've worked with. And by far, the ones where the process has been, I'd say,

The smoothest where we had the most material to work from. I loved your anecdote about like, remember that diet tribe we talked about for 20 minutes? Like that's gonna be a great thing to add into your final sentence or you know, specific image. So, so true. And I so I guess just, you know, PSA to all of you tuning in that like, yes, you may think that the brainstorming and some of the exercises like don't really feel like all that college y, for lack of a better word, right? But they really do end up, I'd say, help they.

It's that stockpile of like raw material to tap into that. Without that, it can really just make it even longer. Cause you're just, it requires you as a coach to be, I feel like, asking more clarifying questions rather than having like at least something to like spark that.

Lavon Robinson (20:51)
Curiosity. Yeah. Especially when students are like two weeks from deadline and they're so tired and they're tired of writing, they can't think. It's like we have this whole pile of stuff. Let's just go back to the document and comb through what are going to be the other stories and how we're going to conclude this. And what are like some small tweaks that we need to make? But like in some ways, you already did the stuff. You already wrote a lot of things. Let's just figure out what we can pull.

Tom Campbell (21:16)
yeah, for sure. And and I think there's something that's really neat about the brainstorming process and work. And I think it's just one of college essay guys like real signature staples is the variety of the exercises, right? And what sticks with what student and where like where the material ends up coming from. Because so in the packet, there is the values exercise, you know, tried and true college essay guy, like, you know, always that's one that I always go back to, I would say, in case like a student's like veering off course or like they don't know.

They're like, what am I even saying? Like, what was the point of me saying this? I'm like, let's go back to values. Like, you know, what you really want to, you know, communicate centrally. But there's also essence objects for those like tangible things that manifest to represent parts of you and 21 details and 10 things I want colleges to know about me and roles and identities and da-da-da-da-da-da. Right. So with this student, were there some particular exercises where it really unlocked, you know, some of that concrete anchoring or kind of helped.

This process move along from idea to actual execution.

Lavon Robinson (22:18)
The rows and identities exercise really clicked. And I actually had him do it a couple of times because I can't remember exactly, but I think it came down to like, yeah, you're a translator, but like as a translator, now what are your rows? And I had him write a few sentences with that. And one of the cool things about like this exercise is sometimes the actual sentences that they're writing are sentences that we copy and paste into the actual essay. So

For him, the Rose Identity Exercise was good. The 10 Things I Want College to Know About Me was good. And the 21 details. While it didn't come up in his personal statement for his Stanford roommate essay, we pretty much just took the 21 details and made it details that his roommate needs to work learn him. And it made it like super easy to like share random facts about like his shoes and his favorite books and different things. The essence objects.

were good as well. Thinking about some of the things that are like are gonna be memorable to him, that was maybe our second choice for the essay that we didn't end up going with. So one of the things that's also hard sometimes is that when students put so much time in the brainstorming exercises, we might have four really good ideas and we need to narrow down to the best that isn't gonna likely come up somewhere else in the application or isn't going to be a good topic for some supplementals.

Tom Campbell (23:43)
Yeah. It's nice when you have like a couple different like options of like this is like definitely worth exploring and could really result in something. And figuring out like what could go where is it's a great little like puzzle kind of exercise in a way mentally to to do that. Yeah. And when going through the exercises, like actually like going through and doing them, you know, most of the time students are doing these on their own. When you mentioned that you had them do the roles and identities a couple of times, can you just a little explain?

Elaborate a little bit more what you meant by that. Was the first go around like, here are the roles and then maybe did you ask for like a little more, like, give me some of more examples or elaborate on some of these roles, like translator, for example.

Lavon Robinson (24:23)
Yeah, we went through it and the things that he picked out were like not super connected and showed different sides of him. But as we start to find themes throughout all of his brainstorming, connected to his brother and connected to like being an advocate and a translator, I would ha ask him to do it again and say, Okay, you're an advocate, but as an advocate in these different spaces, now what are your roles? And when you're in the classroom tea like as a teacher or mentor, now what are these roles? Just to start to see like

What are some other topics? What are some sentences? What else can come out? So it's like we're going from really big and we're trying to narrow it down to like what's gonna be the key thing and the key theme that's gonna show up to your personal statement.

Tom Campbell (25:06)
Yeah. And something that you mentioned as well was that marriage of like, and this is something it's very fresh in my mind right now because kind of going back to what you said about like college about personal development and your own identity and the business side. I actually think what I'm about we're about to speak to really hits that like intersection because we have these two exercises, right? We have roles and identities, which is really focused on that, like who are you? Right.

What are the roles that you occupy in your daily life with your family, with your friends, with your classmates, with extracurriculars you're involved in, with your pickleball, you know, players, whatever it is, your fellow fashion lovers, you know, for this student at least. And it's great. Those, those, you know, you want those to show up in the application because that's going to be the authentic you that colleges want to get a window into. And at the same time, colleges are also looking explicit for.

really concrete qualities, those admission nutrients, right? So having students think about where are opportunities where you can kind of merge me and who I am and just how I move through the world with what makes for a successful college student. You know, demonstrating intellectual curiosity, service to others, leadership and initiative, consistent engagement, collaborating with people from different backgrounds, different talents, different strengths and gifts. That's, you know,

By and large, we're so big at college guy on these admission nutrients the past couple of years because it's not like an either or, right? It's it's very much, you know, that that intersection. So

Basically, I'm kind of wanting to know when going through the roles and identities exercise, were there times where certain things that he wrote or sentences or elaborations on roles also connected to admission nutrients? that like the intellectual curiosity, service to others to that.

Lavon Robinson (27:01)
Come up. Yeah. Yes. And with other students as they do like these rows and identities, I try to have them identify and like instead of picking out five, they might pick out 10 to 15 and write a sentence with it and then try to connect it back to an emission nutrients. That as I work with students, I try to educate them in the beginning about what it makes a good essay and the mention nutrients and like what a strong essay is. So then as we're going through the brainstorming, they can start to think through like

How can this play into my essay? Because it is a lot easier to come up with a good topic and have that lead to like a good essay than if you have a bad topic, it's gonna be so much harder later on when you're tired and you're trying to come things together. If you just have a topic that does not work or a topic that is not authentic to you, or a topic where your dad says, like, you love cars, you should write about cars, but if that's not like authentic or a good topic, it's not it's not gonna work out.

Tom Campbell (27:57)
Yeah, it's it's really tempting to want to be like, yeah, just write about, you know, something that's really important to you. But sometimes like it it's just not as good of a fit for a personal essay for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's just a matter of like, okay, this is like a cool thing that you really love doing, but like it's not really related as much to like your future goals or plans, or you haven't really done as much like leadership or initiative or service related, you know, activities or charge things that

Generally, colleges kind of want to know about and see evidence of. So yeah, I think that having that kind of like, you know, I don't know if I would necessarily go so far as to call it like a rubric, right? Like you have to be writing about these five things. We're really big at college as a guy about like talking people off that again, extreme notion of like it's this or that. But I do think the nutrients can be very orienting to students and just be like, okay, yes, I love this idea in theory, just as a human being, but like we really need to think about that audience.

Right. That person who's actually reading this application, like and their job and what they need to advocate for you. And that I think just always as a a reminder when you're moving through things is a that great filter to pass things through. Yeah. And an exercise actually that kind of is something that I've been doing a little bit more with my students is I I put together these sentence stems that are basically kind of like a way to like merge your roles and identities with admission nutrients. So one example is like for intellectual curiosity, it's

When I'm curious about something, my blank identity helps me dig deeper and ask more probing questions. So that's kind of way for you to like look through the roles and identities and be like, okay, sure, a role in theory could be intellect or like brainiac or whatever, but like that's one and the same, right? Can you clarify and distinguish a little bit more around, you know, which? So, for example, like, you know, this is when I'm curious.

My question asker identity helps me dig deeper. And AP bio, I keep staying after class to ask why mitochondria from different species behave differently, which became the seed of my summer research project. So that's just one example of that. Another one is service to others. You know, my blank identity fuels my service to others and ways I show up for the community is most important to me. And to fill that in with something like my connector identity fuels my service. At my mosque, I started a weekly tutoring exchange where older students help younger ones, 15 pairs and counting. So just kind of distinguish and

I'd say one of the nutrients where this is the most valuable is leadership and initiative because that's one where people are like, My identity is I'm a leader, right? But we all know there's so many different ways to be a leader. Some are quiet leaders, some are ones who are like really great at like, you know, sparking the untapped potential in your teammates and like really cheering them on and being a cheerleader. Some are taskmasters and are like, I'm the delegator. I'm like so good at like getting people in their lane and you know.

just mapping out as a project manager. Right. So I think, yeah, that's that's really one of the goals of I'd say the process for sure is like equipping students with like things that are going to help them when they're articulating in job interviews and in conversations with people about like what what are their strengths? You know, what is the the way that they execute certain things. Cause it's not we're all doing it the same exact way or have the same exact talent. So

Lavon Robinson (31:15)
Yeah, yeah. And how to do it in a clear, concise manner.

Tom Campbell (31:19)
Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, let's you know, we've been alluding a lot to this essay and translators and the but let's actually go through and just read the the tour de force that it is. So you want do you want to go ahead and just start start from the beginning?

Lavon Robinson (31:33)
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Go for it. My brother never learned to sit still during Alvin and the Chipmunks. At a birthday party, his joy turned kinetic, bouncing and flapping his arms. Most kids giggled, but one didn't. Thud, a single slap. My brother froze, trembling and sensory static, and I froze too. I felt ashamed. I couldn't protect him. This feeling of helplessness planted the guilt I carry and the belief that somehow I had to make the world understand him.

To protect him. I began to believe that if I couldn't explain him, I could keep him safe. Translation became my shield. If others understood him, maybe the world would hurt him less. Ke the sound my brother makes when the word is too loud. Nonsense to others, but to me, it was his way of holding himself together. When he rocked, teachers saw defiance, but I knew it was self-regulation. I became the one who explained his broken phrases, his stems, his silences.

Yet when people dismiss him anyway, only seeing his autism and not his effort, I felt invisible, like my voice wasn't enough. I started searching for ways to steady both of us, finding calmer spaces, writing after hard days, breaking down big problems into smaller steps. These habits helped me to cope, but I also began to realize that the problem wasn't my voice, it was the world around him. In high school, I watched our classrooms often forgot the neurodiverse, instructions too rigid, projects too scripted.

Patience too thin. So I turned my guilt into empathy by creating STEM Enrich, my nonprofit for neurodiverse students. During our first STEM workshop, one student flapped his hands when the lights blinked. Another nonverbal student used a number line game I designed to communicate. Watching him speak through something I built filled me with pride. For the first time, I began creating channels for connection, transforming my role from explaining for one to building community for all.

I stopped trying to persuade people he fit in and started creating rooms where he already did. In research, my frustration became advocacy. Every data set on disrupted sensory processing reminded me of my brother shrinking from light lights or pulling away from touch. I was frustrated with how medicine reduced lives like his to numbers. The frustration pushed me to help design a tool to detect sensory issues earlier before kids were mislabeled.

It was more than science. It was proof that research could honor live the experience instead of erasing it. When I saw how this work could shift diagnosis and care, the anger gave way to hope that science could eat uplift. Each project began with that old helplessness surfacing when someone slipped through the cracks of a system not designed for them. But instead of feeling stuck, it turned to my guide. Responsibility morphed into purpose. Guilt transformed into empathy.

Frustration evolved into advocacy, and the helplessness that once paralyzed me became the driving force behind my actions. Now, when people slip through the cracks, I focus on what I can fix instead of what I can say. For years, I believed my role was to be my brother's voice, to help others see his perspective, but that left him waiting outside the conversation, hoping someone would explain him into belonging. What he needed wasn't a better translator. He needed a world reimagined in his own.

language. When he insists on curkling popcorn and taquitos for the tenth night, I see the flip side. He translates life for me. When I see obstacles, he points out small joys through his routines. From him, I've learned that every system begins with love. In those moments with him, I've learned to release the guilt I carried. I know I am not able to solve everything, and one day I won't always be there to explain, but I can keep building and shaping a world that accepts him without translation. Yeah.

Tom Campbell (35:29)
So I was gonna say, what does it feel like like reading that back, knowing that the I don't know, you were along for the ride with this and seeing the yeah, the final result.

Lavon Robinson (35:40)
It is like he did so much work and he was such a good writer. So I just help I feel a sense of pride in helping him feel confident about this, just helping him think sim like simple ways to talk about frustration in the beginning and bringing it back in the end to talk through like how he was action oriented, to go back and like put in that super small detail about Kirkland popcorn and taquitos that makes it really come alive and

Just giving him a space to like reflect about how he helped his brother, but also just like how his brother helped him and how this is gonna help guide him and to like his work for the future and guide how he's gonna walk into rooms and wants other rooms to be set up for his brother in the future.

Tom Campbell (36:27)
And people absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I mean, also just like, yeah, we're I mean, we'll we'll we'll dive in a little more, you know, piece by piece from start to finish. like just some things that really stood out to me. But I mean, you just get to the end of this and it's just like admission nutrients calore, right? Like that intellectual curiosity for neuroscience and how people's brains work and how people's are different. That service to others by a stem nonprofit and those specific examples that he was giving about the ways that it actually impacted.

Real deal, real life students, leadership and initiative to go ahead and start that club, right? Being consistent and engaging with this community beyond his brother and collaborating too with people who have a neurodivergent and and mindset and skill set. And and I think anytime that I'm ever reading stories or watching documentaries or just understanding more about yeah, neurodivergence, I think it really is.

Amazing some of the superpowers that people can tap into because of their mind being wired differently than you know you may typically see. And you really, really feel that appreciation or that kind of honoring really this community that he's not personally, you know, part of, but it's so close in proximity to. And, you know, that sense of allyship, I think, is really, really very tangible.

Lavon Robinson (37:49)
Yeah. And that's it feels like so authentic. It doesn't feel like he's like working too hard or trying to impress anyone. It kind of feels like he's writing like in his journal and just like telling a story of how he got to, you know, where how like a motivating factor for him moving forward in his life. And I think and hope that came across to the admissions officers.

Tom Campbell (38:10)
Yeah. All right. Well, starting back to the beginning, that opening line, my brother never learned to sit still during Alvin and the Chidmunks. I want to know how this came to be because it's such a like eye-grabbing and thought-provoking, I feel like specific example to like open things with.

Lavon Robinson (38:26)
Yeah. Initially, pretty close to the end of our time together, he had a different story that he put in there about something that happened in the hot in a hotel room. And I think he landed on this one because it was very relatable and kinda like goes back to an early memory and his life that really stuck with him.

Tom Campbell (38:44)
Yeah, I think that that's a great advice about relatability because it's it's tricky when like students I've read essays where students are referencing things that like I personally don't know. So that can be a little tough, right? Just because you're not a hundred percent sure like is the person reading this gonna know this Marvel character? For example, I've read a lot of essays that reference Marvel and DC and superheroes anyway.

it's nice to have a coach and like the thought partner to be like, okay, if I'm referencing something that is known in pop culture or is like that proper noun, which I do think adds a lot of relatability into essays, how like choosing options can sometimes be a little tricky just because like don't a hundred percent know on the other end, but something like this, Alvin and the Chipmunks, like.

Lavon Robinson (39:28)
Yeah.

Tom Campbell (39:29)
You got like statistically very highly likely that someone's gonna at least be familiar, even if they haven't seen it themselves, the idea behind it. And yeah. And just, you know, rather than opening with like, my brother never learned to sit still at a birthday party, like it just kind of brings in, you know, that this is my experience with my brother. It's different than, you know, someone else who may have a similar relationship of one brother being on the autism spectrum and one not being.

Lavon Robinson (39:56)
Yeah. And very quickly you feel like the emotions and like you feel empathetic and you feel his guilt. And I think that's what really pulls the reader in to want to learn more about this like kid and the story that he's about to tell.

Tom Campbell (40:10)
Yeah. Well yeah, and you also you were also sharing with me too that, you know, when when putting together a personal essay, one of the things you have to think about is like succinct storytelling and which examples are going to cause like you mentioned I think can you share a little bit more about some of the alternate, I guess, examples that you talked about to illustrate this relationship that didn't end up making the cut.

Lavon Robinson (40:32)
Yeah, yeah. So he had a lot of stories that he he can tell. One was about he made a whole essay about his brother, I think taking the bus home and like this was the writer's first time like driving to school and a mishap that happened. And that was a really great story. And there was a story about in a hotel room where someone knocked on the door, slapped his brother and ran away, which were all good. But one of the things that we worked on and I worked on with students isn't like you gotta kind of get to it.

quick and you need this opening, but we have some 650 words. So we gotta like cut this and like get it down to a hundred max, 150 words. And it's a hard thing to do to take a super long story and make it in just a few sentences. And this one worked out well to tell the story in just a few sentences, and then a few sentences to go through the emotions and the feelings.

Tom Campbell (41:24)
Yeah, that's I mean it great. And such a real part of coaching and helping students with this is like, yeah, give having that perspective of like, yeah, is this story gonna be yeah, word count-wise, is it working in your favor? Because yeah, I it's the long ones that take a long time to get to are great in theory, but in the confines, not always as practical. Yeah.

Lavon Robinson (41:48)
Sure. For sure.

Tom Campbell (41:50)
So one of the in the next

Short paragraph that begins, I began to believe that I could explain him. I could keep him safe. Translation became my shield. If others understood him, maybe the world would hurt him less. This really just stuck to stuck out to me as a really like interesting phrasing and insight. Can you just tell me a little bit about kind of like maybe how this sentence or this idea came to be?

Lavon Robinson (42:16)
Yeah, it goes back to the theme of like being a translator and what that means and how my student views the world, but also being vulnerable of like, I don't want him to hurt, and I hurt, and I feel this like this sense of guilt. This sentence really like showcases where the essay is gonna go, but also it helps lead to the end of like, I know I can't change the world, but or I can't change everyone and how they're gonna see him.

But I there are things that I can do and I can hope that things will be different for the future. So this like leads to some some like guiding motivation, but also some growth that the student chooses to do over time.

Tom Campbell (42:57)
Yeah. And I love how it sets up so beautifully the next sentence, which is that key sound that you made, the sound my brother makes when the world is too loud. Nonsense to others, but to me, it was his way of holding himself together. And that I think really just shows that translator role in action. Yeah. You know, just really helping the reader visualize like what this looks like in real time. And I think yeah, I think that that that turned out so strong.

Lavon Robinson (43:21)
We played around with like making this the start of the essay as well. But like, well, this was good and it would work. The Alvin and Chipmunks we thought was a little bit better.

Tom Campbell (43:34)
Yeah, I think it just adds a different kind of like you were saying, like the first example really shows kind of like the emotional arc of these types of s you know, social situations that can sometimes, you know, be just tricky to navigate. And you, you know, on the sidelines, like, you know, show having love in this relationship with someone that like isn't being understood by other people as much and bearing witness to that. The first example I feel like really

helps you build a little bit more empathy and connection to the writer and the student. And yeah, I think that was a really great call. And then it's it's great that you this is here too, right? That, you know, both these examples are showing something slightly different. One is really focused, I think, on like the yeah, like emotions of helplessness, but also guilt and you know, shame. And then this next one is kind of more about like in real time, here's the translation and and what and what it looks like. So it's it's hitting different points. Yeah.

Something I'm noticing is like definitely a high degree of vulnerability that the students like willing to lean into. And not everyone, you know, is as comfortable with this. And I wouldn't say that you absolutely have to be like pouring your heart and soul, you know, in every single piece of your essay. But I definitely think, at least for me, reading through this and hearing, yeah, hearing you read it, it did really stand out to me. And I I did feel more of a connection to this student because of that. So

Yeah. Was this something that you felt like came pretty naturally for him? Or did it take, you know, some time to help build that trust with you for him to open up about some of these things? Or yeah, share a little bit more about that.

Lavon Robinson (45:13)
In the begin, like he's always r super really good at like communicating and talking through some of his vulnerabilities related to his brother. But like with each draft, we see a little bit more in the essay and a little bit less of like the beautiful language. And with each draft, we try to find more ways to add in vulnerability and emotions to be able to connect with the reader and help them understand. And one of the things I told him and I tell students is you have so many examples and they're gonna see that in your activities list, but they won't see like

The vulnerability and your values. So let's really focus on that. And just kind of unrelated, but something you said earlier. Sometimes I'll work with students and they'll say like these just super nerdy phrases and words that I don't even know how to say. And I'll tell them, like, yeah, this nerdy language is good, but you're gonna lose people there. You are people as you like focus on your values and emotions and helping them like understand how you felt and why you did this and how this relates to whatever's in the future for you.

Tom Campbell (46:13)
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, you know, on the topic of writing about someone else, quote unquote, for your personal essay, even though it's about you, I think this sentence in particular, you know, after the key sound, and he goes, yet when people dismiss him anyway, seeing only his autism and not his effort, I felt invisible like my voice wasn't enough. I like that that it it this is, I feel like a great example and a great sentence of showing how you can bring it back to you.

And your proximity and your connection to this relationship and this scenario. And so by getting, by going through the vulnerability piece and really thinking through what was happening in your mind when the scenario was unfolding and literally writing that out for the reader to know that stream of consciousness, what was on and happening in your mind, that's, I mean, so crucial in essays where there's another character, you know, in tandem to you.

Lavon Robinson (47:09)
Yeah. And as I like read this essay and think about my work with students, I feel a sense of pride here because again, I'm not like the grammar police and don't know all the different rules, but I am someone who can like ask questions and make students feel comfortable and make them feel open to being vulnerable and sharing. And I think that's something that CEG coaches do a really good job at of not focusing so much on the like small details and the sentence structure.

but more about making the student feel confident to open up and share and make sure that like he could have easily shared another example, but I wanted him to share like how did how did this affect him and how did this motivate him?

Tom Campbell (47:52)
Yeah. And the it it sets him up really like well for the next part, which I feel like actually, like I don't know if like observer was one of his roles or identities, but the next part actually where he kind of talks about like I started searching for ways to study both of us, finding calmer spaces, writing after hard days, breaking down big problems into small steps. But then he goes on to speak to how he noticed and observed based on how he was able to learn more about neurodivergence from his brother. He started to notice.

How ill-equipped his high school was in supporting other students who had similar learning challenges, neurodivergence, right? So in high school, I watched how classrooms often forgot the neurodiverse, instruction is too rigid, projects too scripted, patients too thin. I thought that this was a really great way to transition to, you know, you having a personal relationship with someone that helps you understand a little more about the challenges that a particular community faces.

But then now switching to, you know, an extracurricular of yours that you started up, this STEM workshop, these STEM enriched neurodiverse workshops that he did, a lot of times like it's it can be a delicate balance in essay writing of like, you know, flexing your activities. Right. And like students are also kind of really like funny about this too. Like some are really like nervous about feeling like they're like try hard or something, or you know. And yeah, I I

I'd love to hear a little bit more from you about kind of this section here. And it can be easy for some s other students to like go really too aggressively as if this is like a business plan or they're like the essay is all about like basically the infrastructure behind their club or organization when, you know, the reality is the admission reader like is wanting to know how this folds into your larger story, but like it's not the essay is not an explanation of like your club.

Lavon Robinson (49:47)
Yeah. As I work with students, I try to tell them like you give one or two sentences to tell the thing about what you're doing because in some ways we don't care about like we care, but that's gonna be in your activities list. So we don't wanna repeat that. We want to like hear about your reflections and like what this meant for you. And I think one the benefits one of the benefits of working with an essay coach with college essay guy is anywhere, is just you have someone who can help you reflect, but also someone who's read

hundreds of essays and can know, like, yeah, that's gonna sound really general or like really, I don't I mean, I care about everything you have to say, but like that's not gonna be the thing that makes you stand apart. You think that you creating a lesson is really like something extraordinary. And it is, but students are doing that all around the country, but not every student will be able to reflect and like feel the sense of pride. So that's where I try to like bring students back into.

Tom Campbell (50:43)
Yeah. And I I think this paragraph where he talks about the students that he worked with is really effective because he gives a few examples, right? And you I think you mentioned that he had like so many to choose from. The one I really that really stood out to me was another nonverbal student used a number line game I designed to communicate. That's I feel like just like a night I like that example because it just shows like a tangible way that your work impacted someone else and showing like clearly the approaches that you

adopted for STEM and Rich, this nonprofit of yours, are actually working. And you're kind of giving that kind of proof point that you've figured out ways to help people have that light bulb moment. And that's so amazing to be a part of.

Lavon Robinson (51:27)
Yeah. And like this is subtle, but a lot of the time we were talking about his brother. And I said, Can we go bigger and like a little bit wider? Can you tell me about things that how you affected other people and some of the things that other people who aren't your brother, how they had success to show like the far reach of his his efforts.

Tom Campbell (51:48)
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that that it feels so natural too, which is nice, that it doesn't feel like, by the way, I also do this at my school. It just like it organically really flowed to that. And so the ripple effect of kind of like immediate proximity relationship, how it primed me to, you know, want to be an advocate more broadly. Yeah, you you really see that natural progression like really smoothly. And this paragraph, you know, about his high school not SEM STEM nonprofit.

Really, I feel like is very heavy on service to others, leadership and initiative, those two admission nutrients in particular. And then the next paragraph I thought was really like smoothly transitioned to where he talks more about his research and the intellectual curiosity for neuroscience, really. But in a way that kind of to your point, Lavon, like sometimes people can get really jargony when they're describing their intellectual curiosity. So can you speak a little bit more to yeah, how?

how that went about with the student, like, you know, folding in, you know, examples of his research work and doing it in a way that feels accessible, you know, to that person on the other end who may or may not know this subject material as, you know, deeply.

Lavon Robinson (53:00)
Yeah, when we were having a conversation about this, I like referred back to his activities list to make sure it wasn't the same. But like he was telling stories about his brother going into the waiting room and how it wasn't set up for him and how like when he would go in the doctor's office, they would speak to him in a way or just like, you know, touch him in certain ways that just did not work. And

That is like what helped guide at some of this kind of like we don't need to talk about the sciencey things, but let's hear these stories that are super relatable. But like, yeah, why is the doctor's office so like bl no no shame if the doctor's listening? But like, why is the doctor's office so like bland and you know this person is is coming in. Why not do things a little bit different? Or like how can we set up the system so that this neurodivergent person can come in and feel a higher level of comfort? And that's what I like.

I connected with and I'm up to my missions read ahead and said like I reminded him the person who's reading this might have been like a French major who doesn't necessarily know all the sciencey details, nor do I. So let's talk about something that's relatable as you write this. So tell me like we talked with stories that were more relatable.

Tom Campbell (54:11)
Yeah, such great advice. And you used a phrase that I thought was so brilliant, which is strategically general. And I think this is a prime example of where being strategically general is a real win for you as you know a writer. Because there's definitely times where being general is like the like not good. Like I'm thinking about, for example, like

Your activities list description about like your sport and you're like, yeah, dribble balls, go to practices. Like, that's not strategically general. That's the opposite. That's unwisely general. But this is, I think, a great example of where like you can get really in the weeds and jargony and all that. And, you know, it underst it might be understandable because especially if it's something that you geek out about a lot. But it's again kind of like we were talking about with the opening hook and line. It's

Lavon Robinson (55:03)
Yeah.

Tom Campbell (55:03)
thinking through like how many words can I.

afford to sacrifice and dedicate to this thing that I'm explaining.

Lavon Robinson (55:11)
And with his like thinking back to the activities list, you don't necessarily get to tell the why and the motivation behind it. So in some ways, like this sentence sets up other parts of his application to tell the why and the motivation behind like other things that he was doing related to research.

Tom Campbell (55:31)
Yeah. I mean, this section here, I was frustrated with how medicine reduced lives like his to numbers. This frustration pushed me to help design a tool to detect sentry issues early, earlier, before kids were mislabeled. It was more than science. It was proof that research could honor lived experience instead of erasing it. So well phrased. And what I really like about this is it's like it's humanizing science, right? Like it's it's it's moving it away from this like clinical.

thing, even though it is a clinical thing, but like you're you're really artfully and wisely choosing with language, with writing, what beat to hit and what what window to kind of or lens to kind of place on this particular this research project, this this discovery that he made, this tool.

Lavon Robinson (56:21)
And for so many people applying to the colleges that he was applying to, they were gonna be so smart, have the grades, have the test scores. But this was a way that I think like helped the reader connect with him and help him stand out with, like you said, the emotional intelligence and showing like that this felt so authentic because of sentences like this.

Tom Campbell (56:40)
Absolutely. And it's it's sometimes really difficult to some, you know, students and families that I work with are just so achievement driven. And you understand it, right? Because for so many of these students, that's been the feedback loop of praise and being like what they've known to be being good, right? I think back actually to like there's the Taylor Swift documentary, Miss Americana. Have you seen it?

Lavon Robinson (57:06)
Yeah, yeah.

Tom Campbell (57:07)
The opening scene is her talking about like being I've always been like told I was a good girl and like kind of all these examples of like how in her mind, like that was something that she had built up being good, was doing things right or whatnot. And for so many students that I know we've we both have worked with, it's letting them know that like your achievements will be recognized and appreciated. And there's so many spaces, activities, lists, recommendation letters, et cetera, where

They're going to shine, rehashing them over and over again, like just to make sure that someone gets this. It's hard to sometimes reassure students that that it stands on its own in other places and doesn't need to be completely rehashed over and over again, or that you don't need to like prove how smart you are when there's so much other evidence that's communicating that. This is a space to kind of show other forms of intelligence. Like you said, the emotional intelligence. And I think this student.

really use this opportunity to to f flex that so so wonderfully.

Lavon Robinson (58:10)
Yeah, I love everything you said. They're gonna see your grades, they're gonna see your test scores, they're gonna see the classes you take. We don't need to talk about that anymore. Let's find like another aspect of you that we want to have shine.

Tom Campbell (58:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

So, as you know, Suz now, the essay kind of moves from personal relationship with the brother, specific examples of how that helps him develop this translator identity, observing, you know, other barriers, you know, that other neurodivergent individuals face, proactively trying to do things around that through research, through his nonprofit. So then, kind of as we're getting towards the end of the essay, I feel like this paragraph is kind of like an extended outro, really. Like it's it's actually kind of like,

Sometimes you get to an essay and you're like, the conclusion is kind of like really short, which is not bad. You know, there's no right or wrong way to do this. But I kind of like that this one like he really brought it back to like what we would call like an application log line in a way, where he writes, For years, I believed my role was to be my brother's voice to help others see his perspective. But that left him waiting outside the conversation, hoping someone would explain him into belonging. What he needed wasn't a better translator.

He needed a world reimagined in his language. I think that I don't know. This this section to me, I'd love to hear about, you know, the the making of behind this or how how this came to be. Cause I just feel like it really like so what is like the question of like, so what does this all mean? You know, the so what, the insight. I feel like this really gets at the heart of it for me as a reader. Yeah. I don't know if you have more to share here.

Lavon Robinson (59:48)
As he was writing, there were so many different examples to show how he was a translator and how his emotions led to something and action. But as like I think about this sentence, we focus on like how do we like turn it back to you? How do we take it away from your brother and bring it to you? Like, what are the big takeaways? Yeah, you did like these things were very action-oriented and awesome and was awesome. And could have just stopped the essay and had it done with that. But this level of reflection that he has.

And like hope is something that I really appreciate it and it helps us start to go into the conclusion of I did all of these things for my brother, but like here's some of the things that this process did for me and here's some of the reflection that I have done. And one of the things that I think an essay needs to show is that like, yeah, you're smart, but like can you reflect and will you be able to like talk with people in a classroom and take other people's viewpoints and

Like think about how it fits into your lifestyle. This is evidence that shows, yeah, when he comes into a classroom, he's gonna be able to have productive conversations and think about the future and how things can be a little bit better.

Tom Campbell (1:00:58)
Absolutely. Yeah. And that that to me, that really gets at that, that admission nutrient of collaboration. And so I find myself describing collaboration a little differently than I think some other people do. But what when I use that word, I I I really think of it more as like showing evidence to colleges of being able to navigate and interact with difference and to honor it and not just to be like, well, I'm only going to talk with people who have who think the same way that I think.

Who come from the same place that I do. And I think that this section really does, like you said, reassure someone on the other end who's who's reading through this and thinking about is this student going to really be someone on our campus who's going to get along with other people, who's going to see the value in learning from other people. And it you leave, you know, this essay really feeling so confident in that.

Because even though it's it's focusing really s wisely and intelligently on a particular community that he's connected with and learned alongside, it primes you as a reader to think like if that's if this is the way that he's navigating learning from a different community right now, like it's it's it's a green light, essentially, green flag for him to be able to do that with the difference that he's gonna engage with with college. I love that. Yeah. Now I guess

Anything's on kind of like a little lighter note with I love that you and we've we talked you pointed this out earlier, but when he insists on Kirkland popcorn and taquitos for the 10th night, I see the flip side, he translates life for me. I just love it because it's like it's one of those kind of like subtle little things in an essay that like, you know, you could he could have in theory just wrote like when he insists on his favorite snack. Yeah. But like how like less.

Interesting as that to read or to hear. And where did this come from again? Did

Lavon Robinson (1:02:57)
Again, in his brainstorming, he just put in like so many random details and like the student was not super independent and like was a terrible cook and would that could been in a whole essay in himself and talk about how his brother liked to eat the same things and like watch the same movies and then laugh over quoting the same lines of movies. So there was so many things that can go in here. But it kind of got to like, dude, you got eight words, like how can you fit something in? How can you not just say popcorn but make it specific?

And like, okay, let's go back to the brainstorming exercises. Here's this really specific detail of how you connect with your brother and not just have it be like, my brother I am the caregiver for my brother, but more like my brother's my best friend and here's how we connect together and here's how I join his world. And I think like all of that comes out well to show that like their love and their connection for each other.

Tom Campbell (1:03:51)
Yeah. And I feel like this is this is such a great just from like a a craft, you know, craft move, I guess you could call it. Just like we're not up here saying like, the reason the student is admitted is because Alvin of the Chipmarks and Kirkland references and people who are like are gonna like that. I would say that's an extreme assertion, correlation causation moment. But like in terms of kind of like the application as a whole and the feeling and the the

The goal or one of the main goals is distinction, right? You know, standing out in some way from a sea of people who are writing about, you know, impressive experiences, personal growth, your own identity, things you've learned, your values, just these small little things, these few little words that you put in, like you said, eight words, small and mighty, they really do make such a difference as a reader when you're slogging through 60 applications a day for months that are just keeping things, no proper nouns, no.

Distinction. So yeah. Small words but big impact.

Lavon Robinson (1:04:53)
Yeah, and this like those small words is where it takes an essay from like pretty good to great. And these are the type of things where you're like, why would I need to do six drafts? And the sixth draft, this is when these small details are coming in. It's gonna make it like come to life, make people connect with it, make it really relatable. And like thinking back to some like something surprising, just how long it takes to make essay from good to great, but also just what it takes.

for Nancy to go from good to great. Like each draft, you're accomplishing something different and it just takes time to do all of that.

Tom Campbell (1:05:31)
Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of time, thank you so much for your time and investment in this podcast and and sharing this story with our our listeners. And I think, yeah, so many great nuggets and and such great wisdom that you're able to share, Lavon. And I just so appreciate you being here. Any final thoughts or words or reflections to share with folks as they're they're thinking about maybe their own essay drafts or, you know, a counselor thinking about helping the next student who comes into their office?

Lavon Robinson (1:05:59)
Ooh, my message to counselors, you're doing the work. You don't always hear the thank yous. But as a school counselor, reach out to the free resources. Use your s your counseling skills. You don't have to be an expert in all the the nuggets and like what the colleges want. You know the students, find what makes them feel confident and excited, have them write about that and help them craft a essay. And, you know, might not be have the best grammar, but just

Get them something they feel excited about that makes them like showcase who they are. And it'll be great. And to students out there, you're doing it. You're gonna get into a college. You're gonna like find success. You're not gonna find success because you went to the shiniest college, but you're gonna find success because you put in the work and you've been doing it for years and years and take the time to reflect through the essay on who you want to become. The essay is, yes, a part of your college application, but it's also a chance for you to like sit, reflect, and figure out what.

the next couple of years or days and values look like as you're making decisions about what's next.

Tom Campbell (1:07:06)
Hey, who you're who you're trying or who you're working to become on becoming. Look at that full circle. Name of the series. How did you do it? I am so impressed. You did it. Yeah. Yes. Yes. All right, Lavon. Thank you so so much. I now am craving some taquitos and popcorn. my god. Michael pop that in. Yeah. Yes. All right. You

Lavon Robinson (1:07:28)
All right, thanks.

Tom Campbell (1:07:28)
will. Thank you.

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