210: The Being Not-Rich Guide

Ethan Sawyer  0:08  
Howdy friends. This is Ethan Sawyer, aka College Essay Guy. My goal is to bring more ease, joy and purpose into the college application process. Welcome to the podcast, where it's my job to interview the most brilliant minds in the college admissions world analyze their genius and then break it down for you into a series of practical, actionable steps you can take, whether you're applying to college or helping somebody else apply. So this is episode two in a three part series on paying for college. My guest for this episode is Lauren Chandel. She's a fourth year public policy student at the University of Michigan, and creator of the being not rich Guide, which I'll tell you more about in just a few minutes. On this episode, we discuss where did the inspiration for the being not rich guide come from in the first place? How are higher ed institutions sometimes unsympathetic to the needs of low income students, and how can this, in some cases, widen the gap between them and their wealthier peers. What's in the guide that Lauren created? What's been the impact of the guide? How can you access it, and even some tips for creating your own not rich guide if you feel inspired without further ado, here we go. My guest today is Lauren Chandel. Lauren is a fourth year public policy student at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor in january 2018 she crowdsourced a document titled The being not rich at U M Guide, which offers practical advice to students from low and middle income backgrounds. A low income student herself, Lauren believes inequities in the American education system served a disadvantaged low income students of color. As a result, higher ed institutions are often unsympathetic to the needs of those students, further widening the gap between them and their wealthier peers. Lauren is originally from Warren, Michigan, and will likely remain in the area to pursue a career in community organizing and public policy upon graduating, Lauren, welcome to the podcast. Hi.


Lauren Schandevel  1:59  
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad you're


Ethan Sawyer  2:01  
here. So tell me, like, how did this whole thing start that the being not rich guide?


Lauren Schandevel  2:06  
Yeah, that's that's the question. So back in January 2018 the central student government the University of Michigan created an affordability guide of their own, which was pretty thoroughly researched, and from what I can tell, it took them a couple years to get it together, but the first 10 pages or so were devoted to budgeting, and in particular, low income students were sort of frustrated with some of the advice that was in there, which included like, fire your maid, or, you know, do your own laundry and any low income student on campus knows that, you know they're that's not the issue. The issue is that they often don't have enough money to buy stuff like food or pay rent. It's not that they're sort of frivolously spending their money. So my guide is a crowdsourced document done on Google Docs, and it was meant to sort of offer practical advice from the perspective of low income students.


Ethan Sawyer  3:08  
Yeah, talk to me about, like, how did this conversation go? And, you know, did you, I'm just curious, did you reach out to did you? Did you identify other low income students? And you're like, Hey, we should do this thing. Or, like, how did that go?


Lauren Schandevel  3:21  
Yeah, so actually, the process of starting the guide just happened with like me, by myself, sort of on social media, reading people's comments about the student government guide, and realizing that if we channeled this energy into something more productive and useful, that we could probably accomplish a lot. And so my initial idea was like, you know, maybe let's make some sort of pamphlet or static document that we could distribute to students. So I looped in some initial students, just friends who I knew, or other activists on campus, and as more and more people started entering the document, the more I realized that having these different perspectives would be really useful, and so I just sort of let it go, and it's a living, breathing document now, and it's being updated every day. Yeah, this


Ethan Sawyer  4:11  
is meaningful to me, especially Lauren, because I remember as a as an EFC zero kid coming onto Northwestern campus in whenever it was 1998 and noticing the North Face jackets, and looking around, and folks were like, hey, it's important to buy books. And seeing the price of books and being like, What, I can't pay $100 for a book. That's crazy. So like making sure that I, you know, went to the library as soon as the book list was released, and like, you know, figuring out, like, places that had jackets that, you know, like where the thrift stores were and, and I imagine, I know that some of this is in the guide, but like, this is personally meaningful to me, because I remember having that feeling of, of less than, of not enoughness, yeah,


Lauren Schandevel  4:57  
and that's huge. I love, I love that. Are EFC zero. I've never heard that before, really? Yeah, I don't


Ethan Sawyer  5:04  
know what that means, by the way, you know, that's the estimated family contribution based on how much money your parents make. That's how much money your parents are expected to pay, you know, at at school. So mine was zero based on the money that my dad had made the previous year. I'm gonna


Lauren Schandevel  5:18  
start using that title. I'm reclaiming that I like it.


Ethan Sawyer  5:23  
So give us your backstory. Lauren, yeah,


Lauren Schandevel  5:26  
I had a really unique experience, I think because so I was born and raised in Warren, Michigan, which is a working class community just north of Detroit, and I spent most of my K through 12 career in the Warren Woods School District, which left a lot to be desired in terms of AP classes and extracurriculars. But after my freshman year of high school, I actually transferred to a wealthier school district. It was a public school district is about 15 minutes away from my house, and I commuted there for three years, and that was in large part of feeder school to the University of Michigan. So I ended up following like 30 of my peers here, which made it a lot easier to transition. Because not only was I well prepared in those three years of high school to, you know, academically rise to the challenge, but I also had a support system right out the gate. So I think for me, it took me a while to sort of realize that I was different from the rest of my peers. I think a lot of low income students get to campus and they're like, Oh my gosh. You know, people's backgrounds are so much different from my own, they internalize a lot of that alienation. And I think that sense of belonging is a really huge thing for low income students, because they're often one of the only students from their their high schools that are coming to a wealthier campus. So for me, it took me a while to realize that my background was different from my peers, and as soon as I realized that there was not even like this loneliness, but almost like this frustration, I was like, Why? Why am I one of the only people you know weren't the third largest city in the state of Michigan, and I've never met another person from Warren at the University of Michigan's campus. I've met plenty of people from very wealthy much smaller suburbs, you know? Why is that the case? So that led me to ask all these questions about socioeconomic status and race and who the university is built to serve, which has sort of cascaded into these larger conversations about college affordability and sort of leveling the playing field for for students in the the scholarships and grants that I've applied to since I've been here, not just for tuition and room and board, but also when I've applied for internship scholarships and stuff like that, you're almost made to feel like bad about yourself for needing to ask for money To do things that the rest of your peers can do easily with help from their parents. Like I remember a summer internship, I had to apply for a scholarship in order to get the money. And there's very much like a process of jumping through hoops in order to get that money, and then once you get it, you have to thank the donors and say, Oh, I couldn't have done this without you. Thank you so much. And it's frustrating because you feel like I don't know, like the fact that you're not, I won't say self sufficient, because a lot of these students aren't self sufficient. They're relying on their parents, but the fact that you know you have that EFC of zero almost makes you feel less than


Ethan Sawyer  8:43  
Yeah, I remember finding out from somebody that I forget how it was, like, one in three students or something, was a full pay student paid the full 34,000 or whatever number it was then. And I remember, wow, nice. My best friend and I were like, that's crazy. We started to, like, say to this to people in the dining hall. And like, the first two people that we said it to were like, yeah, that's, that's me, you know, that's my dad. And so my friend Brad, we just started to like, joke that, like, Brad's dad was paying for our dinner, you know, in the dining hall. So we would just be like, Hey, Brad, tell your dad. Thanks. So it became this running thing. So I think what I hear you saying is, like, there was this sense of like isolation that I think I sensed too, or I kind of worried that I would sense. And so my comfort was, well, I can make a joke about it and find, you know, community in that sense, like with my best friend. But so I'd love to just get into the guide I want you to tell us about it give us a sense of what's in there.


Lauren Schandevel  9:47  
We have how to navigate financial aid, because grants versus loans versus scholarships versus you know, what does it mean when my aid disperses? All that stuff is really confusing. Using and low income students are like, you know, aside from middle income students, the only students that really have to worry about all that stuff. So there's a whole section devoted to navigating financial aid. There's a list of healthcare services on and off campus. So a huge thing is that our University Health Services recently started accepting Medicaid. So up until that point, finding a clinic in town that would take your Medicaid was almost impossible, and so there's a whole list of clinics that are very sympathetic to low income people's needs and low income students needs. We have childcare and parenting resources in there, keeping in mind that a lot of students have children, especially non traditional students or low income students, that's an issue. There are places to get free food, so like on campus, events usually have a lot of free food. There are coupons in the guide. There are happy hour deals. We also have a list of first gen and working class faculty that can serve as mentors for students. That's really important we have. I really like this because we don't have a tenants union in Ann Arbor, and so there really isn't a lot of accountability to renters, and especially because students are coming in and out so often, we often don't think to stand up for ourselves against rental companies. And so there's a list in the guide of rental companies in the city, and like, how good or awful they are in terms of serving not only students but the general community. And then lastly, we have some advice for people who might be commuting from nearby cities or from the metro Detroit area, which for people who aren't familiar with where Ann Arbor is situated, it's about 40 minutes out of Detroit. So it's doable to commute from that area, which is where most of the population in Michigan is concentrated, but it's a lot harder, especially because parking on campus is really expensive, so all of that is included in the guide, in addition to just basic food, housing,


Ethan Sawyer  12:09  
employment, stuff. What's been the impact of this guide? So


Lauren Schandevel  12:13  
it surprisingly blew up, which I thought I would have a hard time getting people to contribute to the guide, let alone getting national media outlets to cover it. So I would say around it took off among the student body around January or February of 2018 but around March, it was picked up by Inside Higher Ed and then Chronicle of Higher Ed, NPR, MTV, it was, it was wild. And then I started going on, like this conference press circuit, where I was giving talks about the guide to, you know, higher education research foundations and you know, conferences of practitioners who are working on college affordability. So that personally was really wild. But then other students from other schools started adopting the guide as well, which was incredible. And so we had first students from University of Texas in Austin reached out, and they were like, how can we make our own and myself and one of the first contributors, Griffin st Anj, gave them a bunch of advice for how to start the guide and then publicize it. And then we had University of Nevada, George Washington, University, University of Delaware, all sorts of universities from all over the country began either making their own without necessarily reaching out first, which was totally fine, or they would reach out to us and ask for advice about how to create their own guide. So it it was really cool, and I think those guides have have done a lot of good for those campuses. So


Ethan Sawyer  14:01  
we're going to post a link to the guide in the show notes. But Lauren, say folks are listening to this or feeling inspired. What advice would you give to them if they're thinking of starting their own guide on their own campuses?


Lauren Schandevel  14:14  
Yeah. So when, when I started the guide, it was literally like a skeleton document. It was, I think I wrote the introduction first to sort of set the tone, and then just headings, employment, housing, food security, textbooks, and I included a little bit of information that I pulled from university websites and other resources online, but it was mostly, I would say, if you're you're working on creating your own getting a group of people and working on it together is probably the way to go. It helps you hold yourself accountable. It's more fun to do it with other people, especially if it's a student. Org. There's a little bit more credibility there. And then, once you have, you know, an outline with some information filled in, opening it up to people, post it on social media, you know, reach out to your university's newspaper and publicize it there, and really start to build, build out a document that contains a lot of advice that's specific to your campus.


Ethan Sawyer  15:25  
Are there any particular organizations that you've reached out to, or that you feel like we're really instrumental in getting the word out about the guide, like, for example, on the Michigan campus?


Lauren Schandevel  15:38  
Um, in terms of sourcing it to student orgs. That wasn't initially what I did. So I would say, if you're trying to create the guide on other campuses, that would definitely be useful. So like a first gen group or, you know, an Office of New Student Programs, might be good for lending a little bit of credibility. But when I was starting the guide, it was literally just me and like a group of friends working on it, and whoever I could find from social media. So but yeah, I would definitely say, if you're starting it on other campuses, like using the organization structure as a way to sort of get people working on it initially and lend a little bit of credibility to the project. Is the way to go.


Ethan Sawyer  16:26  
Lauren, why did you create this guide?


Lauren Schandevel  16:29  
Righteous anger, mostly, but I would say I was, I was tired of low income students not being able to speak for themselves, and I think particularly on a on a wealthier campus, it's really hard for us to find each other and swap stories and share experiences. And so often what happens is people end up speaking for us. And when that happens, you know, you get the assumption that we're just like frivolously spending our money, and that's why we can't afford rent or food, and that's not the case, and so the guide was like a way of coming back and combating that and giving voice to an experience that a lot of students have. And I think the guide was able to forge a sense of community that we didn't really have before.


Ethan Sawyer  17:18  
We're gonna post a few resources on the podcast notes page. But what are some resources that you'd like to just point folks toward?


Lauren Schandevel  17:26  
Yeah, so the first thing that's coming to mind is I know that there's a program called Quest bridge for students who are in high school and are currently in the process of applying to colleges, and so I didn't personally go through the process, so I can't offer first hand advice on it, but I know that it's a program for low income, first generation students that connects them to the Ivy's or University of Michigan, or I don't know what other partner schools are included in there, but it sort of helps them through the application process and gives them a little bit of a leg up, because I remember going through the college application process as a first generation low income college student, and I had no idea what I was doing, and I didn't really ask anyone for help, either. So, for example, I applied to Columbia University, and I applied to their graduate school of journalism because I did not know the difference between undergrad and grad school, and I was promptly rejected. So quest Bridge is a is a great resource for students who don't really know how to approach the process, but know that they want to go to college and have you know an idea about where they want to be,


Ethan Sawyer  18:41  
that's a great one. And I want to just say that, you know, I've worked with a good number of questbridge students. And if there are students who are hearing this and just hearing about questbridge for the first time, you know the match letters program that that I started college, sa guy.com/match letters offers free help to low income students who are applying to college. So if you're filling out quest bridge apps, I recommend apply for match letters. We work along with quest bridge because you'll get great mentorship through that. But you know, I'll pair you with a counselor that can give you free essay help and free list development help, because sometimes students have trouble figuring out which schools to apply for. So just a quick plug for the match letters program.


Lauren Schandevel  19:20  
And another thing is, once Ethan links the being not rich at U of M guide, we also have linked on there a document called being not rich DIY, which will tell you specifically how to start your own guide and then how to publicize it. So if you're looking to do it on your own campus, hopefully that can be a jumping off point, shoot me an email. I don't know, I don't know how much longer I'll be using my University of Michigan email, but as soon as I get another one, I can send it your way, and then people can feel free to DM me or tweet at me. I'm very active on Twitter, so


Ethan Sawyer  19:58  
awesome, and we'll post all of. Was in the show notes as well. Lauren, what would you like to leave folks with? I


Lauren Schandevel  20:04  
want low income students to know how powerful they are and how talented they are, and so we speak a lot about grit. I've heard that term so many times, like low income students have grit. They've worked so hard, and that's really true. I mean, getting to higher education doesn't just require grit, right? There are all of these systemic barriers. Or, you know, if you're a wealthier student, there are systemic forces at play that are that are sort of goading you toward institutions of higher learning, but if you're a low income student, you have likely had to work really hard to get to where you are, and there is so much pride to be found in that. And I know when I started my journey in undergrad, I felt like college wasn't built for me. I felt really alienated. I felt, you know, I heard the big words that people were using and and they were talking about all the extracurriculars that they had done in high school and all of the the fancy AP classes that they had taken. And I automatically assumed that those students were smarter than me. But if you stay around for a little bit, you realize that that's not necessarily the case, right? These people are just more resourced, and so I think the fact that you are in the same place as students who were literally born to go to places like the University of Michigan or Ivy League schools says a lot about how far you've come and how intelligent and resourceful you are, and you deserve to be there as much as any student who has been sort of pushed in that direction their entire life. And you should feel very proud of where you've come from and where you're going and the work that you put into that.


Ethan Sawyer  22:03  
Thanks for coming. Yeah, of course. Thanks for listening. You'll find all the show notes, as always at college. Sa guy.com/podcast Up next is my final episode in this series on money. I connect with Joan Lu of the Nepali Justice League, who helps more than 60 Nepali students find placement at colleges and universities after their scholarships were revoked, she's got tons of experience and will share her advice on financial aid tips for International Students and their counselors catch you next time you


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