214: Resources for LGBTQ+ Students from Campus Pride

Ethan Sawyer  0:09  
This is Ethan Sawyer, aka College Essay Guy, and my goal is to bring more ease, joy and purpose into the college application process. And while I do that through the blog and through my courses and stuff, one of the main ways I do that is through this podcast, the college si guy podcast, where I interview some of the most brilliant minds in the college admissions world, analyze their genius and break it down for you into practical, actionable steps that you can take if you're applying to college or if you're helping somebody else apply. Campus pride is the go to resource for LGBTQ students and their families. And my guest on this episode, civil rights champion, Shane winmeier, is the one to thank for its very existence. On this episode, we discuss, how did Shane get involved in this work in the first place? How is the college search process different for LGBTQ students? What are some great questions to ask when visiting campuses, what are some common mistakes that students make in the process? How can LGBTQ students find scholarships, and should students come out in their essays? And if so, how thanks for tuning in. My guest today is Shane winmeier. Shane is a best selling author LGBTQ campus pioneer and civil rights champion. He's founder and executive director of Campus pride, the leading national LGBTQ organization for student leaders and campus organizations working to build future leaders and create safer campus communities. Shane is also the creator of the campus pride index, which we'll put a link to in the show notes. It's the premier National LGBTQ benchmarking tool for colleges and universities. More on that shortly, released fall 2006 by Allison books. She's the author of the advocate college guide for LGBT students, the first ever college guide profiling the 100 best LGBT friendly campuses. He's also the editor of brotherhood gay life and college fraternities, and CO editor of the book's inspiration for LGBT students and allies out on Fraternity Row, personal accounts of being gay in a college fraternity and secret sisters, stories of being lesbian and bisexual in a college sorority. Shane, welcome to the podcast. Well, thank you. It's good to be here. Thanks. So I'd love to just hear a little bit more about your story, your background, and how you got into thinking about and writing about college admissions. Sure.


Shane Windmeyer  2:28  
Well, I am a first generation college student. I grew up in the Midwest, in Kansas, in a very small town, and neither my mom or my dad, you know, went to college, and my mother was actually, you know, raised me as a single mom for the first year that my dad adopted me. But, you know, we grew up on a, you know, near reservation, and I am part American Indian, and, you know, have a very mixed ancestry. And you know, being a first generation college student, and somebody who, you know, comes from a family that, you know, even my grandmother had six, you know, girls and six boys, so about 12 kids, and, you know, not, none of the grandchildren had ever went to college. So there was a kind of this immense pressure to that I put on myself, really, to kind of be the first to go to college. And, you know, I think that experience has really changed my life for the better. And, you know, it's been able to, you know, help me, help other students. So I think the, you know, the whole aspect of college admissions, getting into college, has always been important to me, because it's what, you know, my family particularly wanted me to go into college. And you know, I was the first generation student to do so in my family. So it kind of holds something very special to me. And I believe that college admissions is kind of the first impression that students get of a college campus. And you know, especially for somebody who might be out and LGBTQ or, you know, might be closeted. You know that the college admission process is the way that they go about learning about whether or not they really want to be part of that community,


Ethan Sawyer  4:12  
right? So when it comes to finding a grade school, how might the college search process be different for LGBTQ students?


Shane Windmeyer  4:20  
Well, I think it can be very challenging, because we are not always transparent, and what we offer LGBTQ students, or we don't have much to offer them, and it just depends on, you know, the region of the country, the state, whether it's public or private, or it's your college experience, or possibly even, you know, historically historically black college, there's a lot of differences out there currently in what services there are for LGBTQ students. So in many ways, a you know, a family member, a parent and LGBTQ young person has to be able to know what questions to ask. Uh, to find out the commitment and the the institutional support that a college campus has to its LGBTQ students. And so that's the difficulty. It's it's not as easy, really, to find LGBT campuses as it is maybe to find campuses that are inclusive, you know, for other purposes related to, like sports or athletics, you know, or you know, for international students, you can kind of see that, and it's more traditional to have that information available, and it's still slowly coming out on the admission side, you know, this information for LGBTQ students is equally as important as you know, for students of color or for, you know, other aspects of diversity on campus with


Ethan Sawyer  5:43  
you, and one of the things that I love, so I'll be mentioning campus pride a bunch, and you know, there will be links to the to everything we mentioned in the show show notes. One of the resources that I really love is this personal inventory quiz for LGBTQ youth that's on the website Shane. What are some of those questions that you think are really great for LGBTQ students to be thinking about and asking as they're looking for colleges?


Shane Windmeyer  6:08  
Well, I think for every LGBTQ student, it's a bit different based on where they grew up or what they're looking for in college. Ultimately, you know, students go to school to get a, you know, a degree in a sort of certain area that they want to spend their life, you know, as a career, you know, be able to create change in the world. And that could be an English teacher, that could be, you know, a bio med student who goes on to be a doctor, you know, whatever it is. And so you have to think about it from a standpoint of where you want to go to get your degree. But you also have to think about it from, you know, do you want to have, you know, a lot of out students around you? Do you want to have a, you know, access to clubs and activities that are LGBTQ specific? So I think one of the things that we approach in kind of the idea of the search process for students and and kind of taking a personal inventory of what is important to you as a gay, a lesbian, bi, trans, queer person, in the experience that you have for some of us who maybe grew up in the Midwest, you know, we are already accustomed to not having a lot of maybe visibility or out LGBTQ folks, but when I go to college, maybe I do want that as Part of my experience. And so it's really about digging deep and trying to figure out what you need to be successful, what you need to have your personal experiences met along with your academic experiences. Yeah.


Ethan Sawyer  7:34  
And what about when visiting campuses? What are some great questions to be asking or things to be looking for as students are seeing if this is a fit for them. Well,


Shane Windmeyer  7:43  
first of all, there's no bad question to ask. I think that's important. And you know, the more questions you ask, I think the better you will feel about the campus visit. So, you know, I encourage students to ask about especially from current out students. So if you are out and you're going to a campus visit, you know, try to meet some of the other LGBTQ students on campus who are out and ask them, don't always rely on the admissions professional or the student who's giving you the tour. You know, try to get to know some people on campus and ask them directly some of those questions could be, you know, what is it like to to be out. Are there, you know, activities. You know, educational events. Can you openly ask LGBT questions in the classroom? Are the professors inclusive in how they treat students? You know, if I'm a trans student, you know, you know, asking other trans students. You know, how often have they been misgendered? Or maybe, you know, our professors respectful of pronouns and what name you want used in the classroom. There's just, you know, I think the questions ultimately have to come from what you're most concerned about. But also, I mean, campus pride provides a whole list of questions to ask on your your your campus visit, or you know of the admissions office or others on campus?


Ethan Sawyer  9:06  
Yeah, it's called the campus visit scorecard. So for students who are getting ready to visit campuses and are trying to figure out what questions to ask, there's a amazing, huge list. One of the things, and other things you know that students maybe don't often considered as college fairs. I know that campus pride has a National LGBTQ friendly college fair program. Will you tell us a little bit about


Shane Windmeyer  9:26  
that? Yeah, our college fair program happens in anywhere from four to eight cities every year. It just depends on which cities we have interest. But we definitely do fairs that are LGBT centered and focused. So what that means is that if you show up there, the admissions folks that are there are going to be prepared to answer any question you have about LGBTQ live. So you know, at a traditional admissions fair, there might be some concern or fear about asking, you know, certain questions. Or, you know, the admissions person may not be prepared to answer them. So, you know, we have created a national college fair program where the whole focus and the experience is centered around LGBTQ life. And so those fairs have become very popular. And you know, the colleges that come there want to recruit and have openly LGBT students, so the parents, family members and the students you know are going to a fair where you know they ultimately are the ones that you know. The Campus wants to help, you know, expand this diversity, but also just have a commitment to you know, LGBT students and making sure that they are part of the student population. So it's been, it's been going on for now over a decade, and we are very happy to be able to host these types of fairs. Our goal is to host them in more, you know, in more of the Midwest and the South. Traditionally, you find that the fairs are in the West Coast or in the Northeast.


Ethan Sawyer  11:02  
So one of the resources I love is the P's and Q's to choosing the perfect campus. Shane, will you share a little bit about what it means to mind your P's and Q's when it comes to this college search process?


Shane Windmeyer  11:13  
Yeah. So, you know, that's something that we could come up with in just understanding, you know, what really goes into finding a perfect campus. Now, a perfect campus is really what's in your mind as far as what your needs are and what's important to you, but the P's are trying to picture yourself, for instance, on the campus and envisioning yourself, and I truly mean envisioning yourself. So once you've visited, once you've asked the questions. Kind of think about, do you fit? How do you picture yourself on the campus? You know, what's your passion? Is your is your passion going to be supported there? You know, asking yourself plenty of questions around the campus, allowing yourself to be, you know, patient with the process and with, you know, trying to figure out where you best fit. You know, preparing yourself for the experience and for, you know, college, you know, learning about the environment, really probing the environment to understand what it offers. What resources, you know, the LGBT work on the campus. Do they have a resource center that is fully funded. I mean, that that is real important. But sadly, you know, roughly about 250 colleges in the country have a resource center. So there's a number of colleges out there that don't have resource centers or fully staffed offices that support LGBTQ students. So really probing that, you know, have a sense of humor in the process, be quirky and fun, as I listed here, and then know your priorities. Don't forget the reason for going to college is to get an education. And then lastly, we talk about the P of pride. Be proud of who you are, celebrate who you are. And if it's going to be a campus that isn't going to celebrate or recognize you for who you are, then you don't need to be there. People tell me all the time, you know, should I be concerned about going to this campus? And, you know, talking about, you know, being gay. And I'm I asked him, I said, is that the type of campus you want to go to if you have to be fearful of that? And the ultimate answer is, well, no, I want to be out. Well, if you want to be out, then maybe all these questions you're asking yourself are telling you that you need to maybe pick, pick somewhere else, right? And so I think the campus truly has to be where you are in your in your process. And my New York P's and Q's helps you kind of dig deep and analyze that,


Ethan Sawyer  13:38  
are there any chain like misconceptions or common mistakes that you see LGBTQ students making throughout this process.


Shane Windmeyer  13:47  
Well, I do think it's varied for each student, but I do hear a lot of times. You know, young people today are coming into college campuses expecting them to be LGBT inclusive and to already be there on maybe gender inclusive housing and gender inclusive restrooms and and the fact is, is that there's still many college campuses that aren't there yet, that you know, when it comes to trans inclusion, are still far behind, or even recognizing, you know, LGB inclusion, or understanding what is, you know that there are asexual students, or, you know, a whole spectrum of sexual and gender identities. Some students come to campus thinking that colleges are these bastion of liberal, progressive, you know, very LGBT, inclusive campuses. And while there are some that are definitely more progressive than than some cities in some states, there's a larger number that have a lot of work to be done to even get to a point of being seen as trans inclusive. And so I think that that's one of the big misnomers for for some of the students that maybe are coming from more, you know, maybe progressive cities or urban places they expect College. Colleges to be LGBT friendly, or even students who are coming from more rural areas, they think that going to college are finally going to be able to, you know, be more LGBT out and, you know, have, you know, a better way to express themselves in a more holistic manner and and while I'd like to think that it gets better just by going to college. That's not really the truth. The truth is, you know, it gets better if you find the right college, the right fit for you. And so this, you know, this notion that just going to college, you know, things are better, I think, is a is a disillusionment for for many students, you still have to put the work in to find the right college. Yeah,


Ethan Sawyer  15:39  
speaking of which, tell me about or tell folks about the best of the best college list that campus pride put together. What is it and how did you put it together?


Shane Windmeyer  15:48  
Yeah, so campus pride every year as a way to highlight our programs and our services around LGBTQ benchmarking and higher education. We have our campus pride index, and this index basically rates colleges on how inclusive they are in a number of LGBT policy program and practice areas. And we want to hear out of that list. Pick the top 30. Sometimes we've we've picked, you know, the top 25 it goes back and forth every year, as far as how many we actually recognize as the best of the best, but these are colleges that are really leading the way, the most progressive of the colleges in the country. Many of them are four year public and private institutions. And you know, they're in many times progressive areas. But you know, there are some that are in places like Indiana, you know, Indiana University Bloomington, which is in a state that maybe isn't quite as progressive. But our goal here is to bring attention to these campuses, but also to recognize that we have a whole list of colleges that are part of the campus pride index that maybe for students who have to stay in state might be also better choices for them because they happen to be in Texas. And, you know, I can't afford to go out of state if I'm a Texas student, so I'm going to look within my state. So we do this top, you know, 30 list every year, as a way to bring attention back to the campus pride index, as well as to highlight these campuses who are doing positive work in hopes of getting more campuses to kind of strive and to compete with each other, to do better LGBT inclusive work.


Ethan Sawyer  17:33  
Shane, I'd love to hear a couple examples of what are some of the ways that these schools that are leading the way are being more inclusive. Maybe some things that other schools could learn from?


Shane Windmeyer  17:44  
No, that's a great question. You know, campus pride has roughly about 75 benchmarks, and they range from Housing and Residence Life to recruitment and retention work to academic life to student life, where we see most of the work by college campuses is probably not a surprise. We see a lot of work in student life around student organizations, student activities. You know, having a, you know, you know, events and things going on, to even having a resource center or a part time staff person, right? But truly this the campuses that are leading the way being most progressive, not only are they doing that work, but they have been focusing on trans inclusion and making sure that there is ways for students who are transgender to be able to get health insurance as students as inclusive of gender inclusive affirmation surgeries or hormone therapies. You know, they're doing work around gender inclusive housing, making sure that if you're a transgender student, that you can be housed in accordance with your gender identity. You know, restrooms, it seems pretty simple to a lot of people, but still, there's many campuses that have, you know, very binary restrooms of just man and woman, and you know, creating family restrooms or gender inclusive single stall restrooms, not only in academic buildings, but also in recreational sports facilities. So you have single stall showers that are more private for someone who maybe identifies as transgender to have access to. So those are the higher level stuff that many campuses are are doing that are the most progressive and the best of the best. You know, even simple things like changing your name so you can have the name that you go by on your records for a trans student, or making sure the pronouns that you use are already on the class roster, so that way the faculty member doesn't miss gender you. Those are some examples that that might you know that we have seen within the best, the best, the top 30.


Ethan Sawyer  19:55  
And what's the trans policy clearing house?


Shane Windmeyer  19:58  
Yeah, the trans policy. Clearing House is an online clearing house. It's the only one of its kind that looks at higher education, and it's cows on the campus bright site. And what it does is it breaks down the policies, many of which I just mentioned, around trans inclusion and what campuses actually have them. And it provides you with a way to be able to click on the campus go directly to that that policy, for instance, we list all the campuses that have student employee health insurance that is inclusive of, you know, trans, you know, surgeries or trans hormones for therapies. And you can actually click on it, and you can go to that page on the site where it talks about the student health insurance. We also have a number of other questions listed there, where you're able to click on them and go and see such as, you know, the college campuses that ask about gender identity or sexual identity on the admissions app or the post enrollment form. You can click there and you can go directly to those campuses. And what it does is it provides colleges a way to know who else is doing the work, and gives them models or, you know, samples to show their administration, or to call up the campus and say, Hey, I hear you do this. How did you get to that point? And what can we do to, you know, help us get to that point where we have gender inclusive housing on our campus, or whatever the trans policy is that's listed on the site. Let's talk


Ethan Sawyer  21:32  
a little bit about money. So I know that LGBTQ students still need to go through the process of filling out their FAFSA, or in some cases, the CSS Profile. And if y'all don't know what those are, don't worry, there will be a link in the show notes. But how can LGBTQ students find scholarships that are particularly for them?


Shane Windmeyer  21:49  
You know, I think that asking about scholarships should be part of the college search process. Many colleges, actually today are creating scholarships for LGBTQ students, or even LGBTQ and Ally students who have done work in high school or have done work their first year on campus, and it's a way to encourage them to do more work and to, you know, really have pride in that type of diversity on the campus. So asking about scholarships on your admission search is not a bad thing to do. Campus bright also has a campus bright scholarship database for students who are looking for scholarships to go to school. So sometimes the scholarships are school specific. If you go to the school, then you can apply for them. And then sometimes there's scholarships that are just regional or statewide specific, where there's certain foundations, or, you know, certain funders that will fund students to go to college. For instance, down in Florida, there's a wonderful foundation called the MMU Foundation, and they have scholarships, particularly for gay men and bisexual men, to go to school. And they fund anywhere from 500 to, I think, 1000 $2,000 to help with someone's education. Now you don't have to go to a school in Florida to get those scholarships. There's also scholarships out of the pride foundation up in Washington. So sometimes there's private foundations in addition to individual schools that have scholarships. So you should definitely dig around and think about that. You know, the point, Foundation is a wonderful resource. They only have a limited number of scholarships, and they do fully fund in many ways, or, you know, scholarships for LGBT young people, but, you know, those are limited, so you need to get out there, and you need to start that process early and finding scholarships just like you do for anything else, right?


Ethan Sawyer  23:40  
And I love that colleges can actually add scholarships to the database. So if there are any college side folks listening, know that you can add scholarships to this database. Shane, let's talk about essays. My favorite thing in terms of, you know, when an LGBTQ student is trying to figure out their topic and they're going, should I come out? Should I not come out? You know, how do I handle that? What advice do you give them?


Shane Windmeyer  24:05  
You know, I think that that is a question that I hope will get simpler, as you know. I think it has since I was in college, which was a long time ago, still today, there are colleges out there that are just not inclusive or will not accept someone who's LGBT. Those can be found on our website. They actually openly discriminate against LGBT young people. But then those colleges are really in the minority, and ultimately, if I'm gay or trans, I don't want to be stuck on those campuses anyway, right? So then you have campuses in the middle that want to be LGBT friendly, or want to be seen as LGBT friendly. They just haven't quite got there yet. They're still working on their programs and policies. And then you have a number of campuses that is growing, that are LGBT friendly or have a number of programs and services. And. And, you know, they want to have out LGBT students. And so when it comes to the college essay, you know, if I'm out and I'm queer and proud, and I'm going to want to write about what I want to write about, and if it happens to be, you know, a story around coming out as, as, you know, trans or BI in high school, or maybe an experience I had that talks about my sexuality. Then I encourage students to do that. Ultimately, if you don't get into that college because of something you wrote about related to your identity, then in some ways, I think that that is good for you, because then you don't have to deal with the the bias or prejudice or harassment. There are people on the other side of things, who would say, Well, you know, I just want to get into the best college, and so I'm worried that if I write about it, it will keep me from getting in there. Well, typically, those those elite colleges that you're thinking about, they want to have LGBT people. There's, I would say, you know, if we're talking about the Ivy League schools, if we're talking about higher level, you know, research institutions. They are pretty much if you're going to write about being LGBT, most of those campuses, not all of them, want to include LGBT young people. I don't think that you know, for many of them, being LGBT is going to be a plus or a minus. It's just going to be judged based on what you write about in your essay. I also think that young people who are queer shouldn't think that writing about being queer is automatically going to get them in. I think that, you know, the campus is going to look at it on a, you know, a basis of your merit and your scholarship and your essay is just a component to that. So that's kind of where I stand on it, and I think that that has evolved from five years ago. And what I might said, you know, five years ago,


Ethan Sawyer  26:49  
there's so much on the campus pride website, and I can imagine a student getting there and just being overwhelmed, but with where to start? So where would you point folks to start first?


Shane Windmeyer  27:00  
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, one of the things that we did because the campus Park website, it does have a lot of resources and a lot of valuable resources to dig around on and to get through. What we did was we actually created a portal where you can go directly through a URL to learn about, you know, kind of a college guide of sorts, and that college guide, if you go to that page, it basically takes resources that you would need on your college search, from the P's and Q's that we talked about that that worksheet to, you know, the personal inventory quiz, to the scorecard For your campus visit, and it puts it in one, you know, area of the site. So that way you, as a parent, family member or a new student that's looking to go to college, you know, you can actually engage there on that page and makes it real easy for you. So that's where I would go if I'm looking for colleges. Want to start on the process. We have really kind of created this ultimate college guide online at Campus pride org, so you can check it out when students


Ethan Sawyer  28:06  
are writing about gender or sexuality or identity in your experience, what have you seen that works well in the essay, and what have you seen that works less well?


Shane Windmeyer  28:20  
You know, I think what's Well, if you are writing about, you know your your sexual identity or gender identity in your essay is just keeping it very, very real, very authentic. I think you have to come across as genuine and authentic in your essay. You have to share it in a way that is meaningful and and talks about, you know why it's important to you, or why it's part of your passion or your whole self, and I think that's what comes across as as really real and and something that's valuable for the admissions folks, for the people making the decision to understand about you and you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, they want to pick, you know, applicants that will be part of their campus fabric, and they're the dynamics of diversity and the type of students they want to succeed academically.


Ethan Sawyer  29:13  
Shane, what do you want LGBTQ students to know as they go through this process?


Shane Windmeyer  29:20  
I think it's most important for an LGBTQ student to to know throughout the process of finding a college is that their needs matter. Who they are matters at the end of the day, you will be successful because you are being authentic with yourself. You are exploring your needs, and this is a part of your journey colleges, and ultimately, it should make you happy. It should make you feel included and welcome. So you can you know, for some LGBTQ students, you want. Process. And you want to to have college be about exploring your queerness and your identity for other LGBTQ students. You want to have the safety and the inclusion, to feel like you can learn about other things other than your sexual or gender identity. You want to grow in other ways. And so you know at the end of the day, you are what matters, and you do. You do have a an important role to play within whatever college you you find yourself, and for some of those students, that's making the campus better. For some students, it's about, you know, being part of a campus that you know is already pretty LGBT inclusive, and you know that they are able to kind of explore in different ways. So find yourself and realize that it's ultimately up to you and what you choose, you know for you to be part of that journey in in the future for yourself.


Ethan Sawyer  30:59  
Shane, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Hi friends, thanks for listening. No need to rewind to find those resources, because they're all conveniently linked for you on the show notes page, which you can find at college. Sa guy.com/podcast in my next episode, you'll get a sneak peek at what's really like inside admissions office when I interview the great Katie Sweeney, formerly of read College, you'll learn things like, why your admission counselors office is a rental car for several months of the year. How does the reading application process really work? And even one of the kindest questions you can ask them in an interview. Have an awesome week. You


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