Show Notes
Welcome back to the podcast! I’m Tillie Gottlieb, a senior college counselor and content specialist here at CEG. This season, we’re sitting down with admission officers to hear their real stories. I spent years on that side of the desk myself, and one thing I want listeners to walk away with is this: these aren’t gatekeepers deciding your fate. They’re people trying to build a class and a community, often inside a system that feels chaotic from every angle. So over the next few weeks, we’re getting to know some of them as people, hearing what actually drives them, and along the way, getting a clearer picture of what they’re looking for.
Today’s guest is someone I’ve known since my earliest days in admission. He’s also doing something I wish more colleges would do: making the actual cost of college something a family can understand before they ever apply.
Let’s get into it.
Adam Miller serves as Vice President for Admission and Financial Aid at Whitman College, located at the foot of the Blue Mountains in Walla Walla, Washington. Over his 13 years at Whitman, Adam has led efforts to build a more equitable and transparent admission process, including removing unnecessary barriers in the application and developing financial aid practices that give families a clear understanding of the true cost of attendance. Adam is a frequent speaker for high school audiences, where he helps students and families navigate college admission and financial aid, and he’s regularly cited in national media as an expert on these topics. Whitman’s approach to paying for college has been featured in The New York Times, and Adam’s recent work on the college’s “10% Promise” has been covered all over the news. He’s particularly interested in expanding access to selective colleges and demystifying the admission process for families. Before Whitman, Adam spent six years in the admission office at his alma mater, Claremont McKenna College, where he oversaw international admission, coordinated leadership scholarship selection, and served as the admissions liaison for athletic recruitment.
We hope you enjoy.
Play-by-Play
- 2:32 – How did Adam go from playing baseball in France to falling into admissions at Claremont McKenna?
- 6:07 – What makes Adam sit up and pay closer attention to an application?
- 7:28 – What’s the one piece of advice Adam gives students most often about their essays?
- 8:41 – When did Adam first realize college cost was something he wanted to help fix?
- 11:17 – Why is the price of college so confusing, and why don’t families find out the real cost until it’s too late?
- 13:42 – What is the high tuition, high aid model, and why has it become a problem?
- 16:53 – What is Whitman’s early financial aid guarantee, and what did Adam learn from launching it?
- 20:05 – What is the Whitman 10% Promise?
- 27:45 – How do merit and talent scholarships factor into the 10% Promise?
- 30:09 – How does the 10% Promise apply to undocumented and international students?
- 33:57 – Does Adam think transparent, fixed-cost pricing models will become the norm?
- 42:08 – What’s Adam’s advice for a family just starting to navigate college costs?
- 44:06 – What questions should families be asking colleges about financial aid?
- 45:50 – What does Adam want families to keep in mind about affordability and fit?
Resources
- How to Pay for College in 4 Steps Crash Course on How to Pay for College
- Colleges That Offer Complete Financial Aid
- Podcast: Which Schools Are the Most Generous With Financial Aid?
- What is Financial Aid?
- CSS Profile and CSS Profile Schools
- Family Handbook: Discussing Finances + Financial Aid
- Whitman 10% Promise (official page)
- Whitman Early Financial Aid Guarantee
- Forbes (Michael T. Nietzel, June 22, 2026)
- Fortune (June 25, 2026)
- College Worth Your Money (book referenced re: ROI)
- College Essay Guy’s Personal Statement Resources
- College Essay Guy’s College Application Hub
Show transcript
Tillie Gottlieb (00:00) Mm-hmm. Hi there and welcome back to the podcast. I'm Tillie Gottlieb, a senior college counselor and content specialist here at CEG. And this season we are sitting down with admission officers, the people who build the classes that become your college community, to hear their real stories. Because these folks are not gatekeepers deciding your fate. They are thoughtful professionals trying to build communities and honestly bring some sanity to a system that can feel pretty chaotic. And I know this intimately because I've been on that side of the desk. So over the coming weeks, we're going to get to know these fine folks as humans, hear what drives them, and then in the process, demystify what they're actually looking for. Today I'm especially excited because my guest is not only someone I've known since my earliest days in admission, but he and his team are doing something I wish more colleges would do. They're making the price of college something a family can actually understand before they apply. Let's dig in. Adam Miller serves as vice president for admission and financial aid at Whitman College, located at the foot of the Blue Mountains in the one and only Walla Walla of Washington. Over his 13 years at Whitman, Adam has led efforts to build a more equitable and transparent admission process, including removing unnecessary barriers in the application and developing financial aid practices that give families a clear understanding of the true cost of attendance. Adam is a frequent speaker for high school audiences where he helps students and families navigate college admission and financial aid. And he's regularly cited in national media as an expert on these topics. Whitman's approach to paying for college has been featured in the New York Times, and Adams' recent work on the college's 10% promise has been covered all over the news. He's particularly interested in expanding access to selective colleges and demystifying the application process for families. Before Whitman, Adams spent six years in the admission office at his alma mater, Claremont McKenna College, where he oversaw international admission, coordinated leadership. scholarship selection and served as the admission liaison for athletic recruitment. And a fun personal fact, Adam played two seasons for a baseball club in Normandy, France before he started college. And so when he was applying for a job at Whitman, where I happened to be on the hiring committee, he made an epic baseball-themed Prezi presentation. And none of us had seen anything like it, and I'll never forget it. And he was an innovator from the start and I knew it. Adam, welcome to the podcast. Adam Miller (02:32) Thanks so much, Tilly. I can't believe you remember that. Tillie Gottlieb (02:35) I've never forgotten. I really have never forgotten it, Adam. It was so, I don't know. I think Prezi was just coming out at the time, you know, and we all just were stupefied. So that's that's so great. Well, so before we we sort of get into, you know, the number crunching, will you take us back and just, you know, you went from playing baseball in France to the admission office at at Claremont. How did you fall into admissions and then you and what made you stay? Adam Miller (03:01) Yeah, thanks, Tilly. Yeah, falling into it is a good way to describe it. You know, I growing up as a kid, I always wanted to be a professional baseball player. Definitely didn't dream of becoming an admissions officer. And I, you know, kind of got to do a professional like thing in in in France. But came back after a couple seasons and you know, baseball was gonna be over for me. I needed a rotator cuff surgery, and I was kind of ready to propose to my now life. And you know, life was ready to transition and I had that moment of trying to figure out what was gonna be next and applied for a variety of different types of jobs. I'd actually worked as an accountant between baseball seasons and knew that wasn't gonna be my future. And long story short, I ended up going up to Claremont McKenna to meet with some folks from the career services office and have lunch with the guy who was the Dean of Students there when I was a student because I'd been in RA and I was thinking about applying for residence life jobs, like a resident director. And at that lunch, a couple seats down was the dean of admission who was listening in on the conversation. And later that day I got an email from the director of admission at Clarom McKenna, a woman named Victoria Romero, asking if I'd want to read applications part-time while I was in my job search. And I was like, that seems so great. And so I did that and I loved it. A con funny like kind of side note is that Victoria's actually a Whitman alum. So she was the first Whitman alum I ever interacted with. She's now vice president. at Scripps, you know, an amazing colleague and mentor for me. But anyway, so I start reading applications for Cramont McKenna. I get this job at Redlands as a resident director. That was I was there for about two years. They had a program where you could also do a master's degree while you were working there. So I started doing a master's in higher education administration. And as I was doing that, I was learning about how colleges run. And I'm like, you know, like admissions is just so important and it's so much more rich and interesting than I kind of maybe perceived early on. And so after I finished up my masters and we were looking for what was next, I I saw that Claremont McKenna was hiring and reached out to Victoria, got the job and and you know, haven't left in twenty years. Tillie Gottlieb (05:02) And the rest is history. I l I love that it was at a lunch. And this is just a reminder for students that, you know, the the those career services and offices are, you know, you generally have access to them even after you graduate and you never know what can happen. So go back, make use of them. You get to be an alum. So and for full disclosure, everybody, I happen to be also an alumna of Whitman College. So just shamelessly loving. We're everywhere. We are there, not many of us, but but we are we're everywhere and it was a fantastic experience. But so you started, I I love this. It's sort of start with reading those applications, getting that sort of very frontline exposure to to applicants, to the process. And I I mean, I imagine now in the last 20 years you've read thousands and thousands and thousands of applications. Can you tell us sort of, you know, what would make you sit up and sort of pay closer attention to a student or And you know, I I remember running down the hall in the admission office at Whitman when I said, my gosh, this is a great one. You gotta listen to it. Adam Miller (06:07) Yeah, no, it's it's it's such a good question, right? 'Cause I of course, an application, it's what, you know, twenty pages or so. So students can dense seventeen years of life into twenty pages and you're trying to get the essence of who someone is. And it's full of, you know, there's numbers on a transcript and, you know, grades and there's there's a list of activities and all that stuff is important and that's kind of the foundation, but that's not the stuff that makes you kind of sit up and run down the hallway, right? It For me, it I think what I'm always looking for when, especially like when when it comes to the essay, right? The thing that the student actually puts their voice into is a window into how students think, right? I want to learn how they think, not just know what they've done. And that that question of, you know, what is the life of the mind that a student brings to their everyday life and Then to start imagining how that might play out in Whitman's community. To me, that's the thing that really makes me sit up. And so the second I I kinda get to that like meta level of an essay where they're they've told me a little bit of background, but now they're diving deeper and I'm seeing the the gears turning in their mind, that's the part that gets me excited. Yeah. Tillie Gottlieb (07:13) Yeah, any any it's it's true. And I actually think I started to use that phrase life of mind as a baby admission officer at Whitman College. So it's it stays with you. And is there any is there anything you wish students would do more of? Adam Miller (07:28) Yeah, I mean, I think that my standard advice to students, and I get a lot of requests from you know family and friends who have students going through the the college process and they're they want me to like look at an essay. And almost always I say, Okay, this is a really great foundation. You spend about two thirds of the time like telling me a story about something you did or an experience that happened to you, and about maybe a third of the time talking about what that why that mattered to you or or or or what you thought about it. And I want you to flip that ratio, you know. You know, that you do need to spend a little bit of time setting things up, but really getting to that introspection is is really critical. So I think in putting together an application, I think it's really understanding that portant piece of the the equation would is something that I wish more students would do. Yeah. Tillie Gottlieb (08:11) Yes. Well, and and speaking of equations, it's maybe it's time for the math. But I'm I'm so curious, Adam, because you've you've spent your career, the entirety of it, on kind of the college side of a conversation that makes a lot of families anxious for a lot of reasons. But I'm I'm curious, you know, when did you first realize that this cost of college was a major part of what you wanted to fix or be a part of changing? Adam Miller (08:41) Yeah, I mean, you know, money can be really hard to talk about. And I relate to the anxiety families feel. I don't know exactly when this became a a kind of driving passion for me, but I do remember feeling that anxiety about college cost in my own search and kind of assuming that I needed to focus mostly on UC schools. I was a student from California and I I you know kind of knew what that was gonna look like and that my sister had gone to UCLA. So that was kind of the model. And I kind of assume private colleges weren't going to be affordable and for through thanks to some really helpful people in my life. I've got encouragement to apply to a few private schools, including CMC, and you know, just end up being blown away by the financial aid package that, you know, made the costs similar or even a little bit less than a UC school. So for me, that's maybe like the origin story. It's just like knowing that I was this close to self-selecting out of an applicant pool at a college that ended up being a great match for me. And, you know, wondering how many people Have that experience and don't have the luck of somebody that pushes them in the right way. And then you like kind of got into admission. And for your first few years, you're just kind of learning how it works, you're getting on the road, you're meeting with families, but over and over again, yeah, cost and anxiety about cost would come up. So as my role at, you know, Whitman put me in a more of a leadership position, I think it was always like in my mind that I wanted to tackle cost in some way. And at the same time, Whitman's a place that really cares about access and affordability. And, you know, for more than a decade, we've been like building our investment in financial aid in ways that allow us to do more and more generous things. And so there's that nice confluence between kind of things I cared about and the values of the institution that let us start to tackle some of these questions and concerns in ways that are pretty innovative. Yeah. Tillie Gottlieb (10:36) Yeah, well, in in right place, right time. And then as you say, sort of that rise into leadership, letting you sort of steer the ship, which has been really exciting. We're gonna get into a couple of those initiatives in just a second. You know, in terms of this overarching problem of college access, particularly when it comes to affordability, just you know, based on your experience now and having spent so much time thinking really innovatively about the cost of college. Like why why is the price so confusing? And how did we get to a place where so few people know what a degree actually costs until that offer shows up and you're frantically making decisions? Adam Miller (11:17) Yeah, I think I I think the whole process can feel pretty absurd to families, if I'm being honest. You you spend all this time and energy learning about different colleges, and then you have to make a case for why you should be given a chance to go to those colleges. Then you have to wait to find out if you even get a spot at those colleges. And only then do you find out the actual price. Right. I don't think there's any other major financial decision quite like it. And it's hitting at this also very vulnerable moment for families, right? You know, thinking about sending a child Off to college, you as a student are kind of going through this coming of age moment, thinking about these big questions of purpose and meaning. And then you add in all this uncertainty, it's, you know, a recipe for a lot of confusion. And I honestly, I don't think we got here because colleges were trying to confuse people. I think we got here because colleges, at least most colleges, want to do two important things at the same time. Like we want to invest in a high quality educational experience. And we also want that experience to be accessible to families with very different financial circumstances. And a high quality educational experience does cost something. And we can talk more about like what goes into that cost if we want. But the challenge of making college accessible is then complicated because you've got these high costs. And if you're going to try to make it affordable in a way that's somewhat equitable, it requires some complication and some some real thinking about how to do that in a way that kind of thinks about where families are at and and and the lived experience of those families and also works financially for colleges. And so I think that complexity led to a system that just became harder and harder to understand and ultimately kind of put generosity in conflict with simplicity. And so you end up with like kind of I guess that's the problem that we're trying to solve at Whitman is like how do you create a system that can be both generous but also straightforward. Right. Tillie Gottlieb (13:10) Right. Well, and that and and sort of a term that you know we use for the system as it has been in America, we should say, right? Because models Adam Miller (13:18) Right. Tillie Gottlieb (13:20) are, you know, quite different overseas. And that could be a whole maybe we'll do a whole other podcast on that one on that differentiation. But this phrase is it's a you know, it's a high tuition, high aid model, right? And can you just in layman's terms explain sort of what that means and what is what's been problematic about That particular model. Adam Miller (13:42) Yeah, I'll do I'll do my best. But this is basically what I was pointing to before. Yeah, the the things that make a college experience so valuable, right? The things that people want out of a college do cost money, right? The faculty who teach and conduct the research, the staff who provide career support and help set up study abroad opportunities and maintain a beautiful campus, the facilities where students study and gather and work out, like all of those things require significant investment. So when you price it out, the actual cost is. kind of high for providing what colleges provide. And I think that ultimately leads to the high sticker price of tuition. At the same time, public funding for higher education has remained flat or declined nationwide and certainly in many states. And so that's only like added pressure. Right. And so as like costs have gone up, it's also true that fewer and fewer families can afford to pay that full tuition cost. Right. Right. So this gets back to trying to provide a high quality experience. But fewer families can actually afford what the true cost of that experience is. And so colleges that have the resources to do so are trying to offer generous aid packages so that more families can afford it. And like I think at many colleges, including Whitman, the actual amount that students are paying on average hasn't changed all that much over the past decade, right? The real cost is staying pretty flat, even though that sticker price is going up. And I think that gets to the heart of your question, right? Which is that. Over time, we've created a reality where like a room full of families, considering a college, will end up paying a different price. And I think actually a lot of people understand that at some level and and maybe even kind of are okay with it at some level. But the problem is none of them actually know what they're going to pay. So like the system itself, you know, there there's maybe some flaws in it, but the the bottom line being that any situation where you know that You're going to paying a price that's different than what the sticker price is, but you don't have a way of really understanding that. It's a recipe for again a a lot of confusion and anxiety. Yeah. Tillie Gottlieb (15:51) Confusion, anxiety, and then as you were saying about your own experience or for so many students, assumptions and myths about what will actually be possible for you and what you have access to, and then essentially shutting the door on opportunity because of the depths of confusion. And and I want to talk too about, you know, one of the one of the it's probably not one of the first, but things that Whitman has done in these efforts. But one of the one of I would say the first in the in the industry. Which was rolling out the early financial aid guarantee a couple of years ago. And, you know, I I admit to being so proud of that as an alumna and understanding what that means for the students that I've worked with for so many years. And this this guarantee, right, lets a a senior find out their aid package before they even apply, which to your point, you know, is is solving for this massive piece of confusion and anxiety much earlier. So can you talk a little bit about what you learned from? launching that or researching that and how what maybe what you've learned since it's been in place. Adam Miller (16:53) Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, the early financial aid guarantee, a really important step for us in trying to track tackle that issue of transparency for families, right? We knew that the whole sequence that we talked about before, you know, visit, apply, get admitted, and then find out price. We know that's frustrating. So we tried to flip that sweet sequence around, right? So that you could find that full, accurate, rock solid, guaranteed price before you had to move forward with the rest of the process. And yeah, that was pretty innovative and and and we You know, found that families love the idea. And while there was maybe some skepticism at first, like, no, this is too good to be true. Are you sure? You know, over what, five, six years that we've been doing this, word keeps getting out. And, you know, people tell their friends and like, no, that's amazing. Like, you will literally know exactly what you're going to be asked to pay before you even have to go through the process of applying. So that was all great. And so we learned that there's something in transparency that helps build trust. And we think that's an important foundation for our. you know, ongoing relationship with students and families. But we also, I think, learned that transparency is really only part of the challenge. We were still, through the early financial aid guarantee, still fundamentally operating through the traditional financial aid system, which has a complicated formula that weighs income and assets and determines how much we think a family can afford to pay for college. And so while that approach was working really well for some families, right? Many families were getting amazing financial aid packages or large merit awards. And they were like, yep, this makes Whitman work. There were other families that we felt were like were being left out because either our calculations didn't match their reality or they didn't have Whitman on their radar early enough to understand that this early financial aid guarantee was even an option. So yeah. So I think we we we felt like there was still something else to solve there. We also found that that timeline was great, but you mentioned it it was in the senior year. And family changing colleges. as sophomores and juniors and they're developing colleges lit college lists early. And so we felt like since cost is such an important factor for so many families, at the beginning of the process, even a promise of a full aid offer later still leaves a lot of families in limbo. And that's kind of what led to the ten percent promise that we we recently announced. Right. Tillie Gottlieb (19:09) Yeah. And and I'm so excited to dig into that. But you you bring up this point where as counselors, you know, we're urging families to have conversations despite how uncomfortable and vulnerable it can be early. You know, it's like have these conversations now, get the information, understand net price calculators, you know, but it's it still leaves that gap of yes, please do this research. You're still not gonna have any idea what this is actually gonna cost. So let's try to build a list that's gonna be as affordable as we can possibly make it. It's the funnel that you're talking about. And and and you're right that even, you know, if if they're finding you late, then that's then the the guarantee maybe isn't going to be as much of help. So let's get into the big one. Let's get into the Whitman 10% promise, which has been all over the news. We're recording this in early July, again making me such a proud alumna, but walk us through it. Walk us through the promise. Adam Miller (20:05) Yeah, I the concept is simple. You can now apply to Whitman knowing that you'll never pay more than 10% of your family's income toward tuition. And for families that are in less than $100,000 a year, tuition is fully covered. And what's great about this, I mean, it doesn't replace anything we were already doing, right? That the system has been working for the 400-something families a year that are coming to Whitman, right? They're getting, you know, financial aid that that's helping them out. We're offering merit scholarships that That that helped, we have talent scholarships in place. All of that is still in place. But what this adds is this kind of new path to affordability, right? That doesn't require filling out a long, complicated financial aid application called the CSS profile. And that doesn't require waiting until your senior year or until you've been admitted to find out what that cost will be. You could literally go to our website today and know what the maximum cost you would pay for a year at Whitman is. And because it's In place for all four years, it offers unprecedented predictability in terms of planning for finances over the duration of time here. Wow. Tillie Gottlieb (21:11) So, so walk us so walk me through that a little bit, right? Because and just for folks listening who aren't as familiar with the process, typically for a private institution like Whitman, you would fill out the FAFSA, the free application of federal student aid, and then you would do the CSS profile, which is yet another application that's giving a little bit more information about assets. Maybe you qualify for Merit Aid. Whitman also has talent scholarships like many schools. So there were all these pieces sort of swirling. But right now, you know, so so If they go to the Whitman website and they're trying to do that calculation, what does that look like? What are they actually submitting? What is the what's the income you're actually taking into account? Adam Miller (21:50) Yeah, yeah. So yeah, really good question. You know, we tried to make this like very simple and like eliminate fine print, but of course, like the details do matter. So yeah, you can go to our website, there's a calculator tool, and you would type in your adjusted gross income. So that's how we're defining income is your adjusted gross income, which for those of you following at home, that's line 11 on your 1040. You know, anybody that you know submitted taxes would be able to find their adjusted gross income. And the calculator just calculates 10% of that, and that's what you pay toward tuition. The bottom of the calculator, it shows that 10% calculation plus the estimated costs for food and housing. And so can see what a full comprehensive cost would be today. The questions of what you need to submit for that calculator online, you don't need to submit anything to us. You just put in a number. You could try out every possible income in the world and you could map it out. But we've done it for you on that calculator, make it really, really easy. Later on, if you actually apply to Whitman. We don't let you just self report your income, you'll submit a FAFSA and the FAFSA also asks for that same AGI adjusted gross income number. And that's what we'll bring into our system to calculate the ten percent promise. Wow. Tillie Gottlieb (23:00) So C CSS profile just out, out the door. Adam Miller (23:03) I should really clear about this. The CSS profile does work well for some families and may lead to additional aid, especially for families with some complicated circumstances, maybe multiple kids in college at the same time, recent fluctuations in income, major medical expenses. I mean, there's all sorts of things that the CSS profile does an awesome job at accounting for that the 10% promise is not trying to account for, right? So we're not getting rid of the CSS for families that really will benefit from. A deeper dive into their finances. But frankly, for the vast majority of people applying to Whitman, the CSS profile isn't really adding any new information that's going to be helpful. And the bottom line for them will be about the same through the 10% promise, if not a little bit better through the 10% promise. And I think that's where the real value comes here is basically letting families choose how much information they want to share with Whitman and being able to come in from the beginning knowing. very worst, it's going to be this. And then again, if you want to take the time to do the CSS profile, we'll do that full analysis. We just can't do that today. Right. That takes a little bit of time because it's a more complicated process. Tillie Gottlieb (24:11) Got it. So that's an option they can optionally submit a CSS. Wow. Adam Miller (24:14) Absolutely, yeah. Tillie Gottlieb (24:16) And I do want to mention that CEG has put a lot of time into creating resources for families around financial aid. So we have a crash course in financial aid. We have blogs on what you know, what is financial aid, how to navigate the CSS profile, the FAFSA, how to understand that, particularly for students from, you know, low income and first generation households. So we will link that in the show notes, but I just want to put that as an aside that we do have those resources because we're we're skimming past, you know, some of these big words and concepts. So please know that we'll we'll have those resources. Adam Miller (24:46) Yeah, absolutely right. So yeah, you as you said, every college is required to have a net price calculator. And it's a tool that I think in spirit is like a really great idea. And in practice, it's kind of notoriously unreliable and kind of your mileage may vary in terms of how helpful it is for any individual student or family at predicting cost, you know, historically. What's great at this point for Whitman is with the 10% promise, we've also built that into our net price calculator. So when you go in to fill out The net price calculator, you'll already have known if you used our tool on the 10% promise page what the bottom line would be. The net price calculator will still have that information in it. And then you'll provide a little bit more information about your finances and it'll give you a sense of whether submitting the CSS profile to Whitman might end up leading to some extra information, right? So I think it'll be a helpful tool for families that are sitting here saying, okay, you know, the CSS profile is going to take me two or three hours to sub to fill out. gonna cost me 19 or 20 bucks or whatever it is to to submit it. Do I really want to take the time to do this thing? Right. And you know, obviously if you want to cross all your T's and dot all your I just go ahead and do it. There's no harm. It's never going to lead to a worse outcome at Whitman. But it's people are busy and if you don't want to to wrestle with that thing and provide that much information to a college, you might be asking the question of is this even likely to help? And a Whitman's net price calculator will now basically Give you a sense of whether it's even worth your time to submit the net price calculator. The net price calculator also does a merit scholarship estimate for students. So it can be helpful on that level as well. And especially for maybe early in high school before we offer the early financial aid guarantee. I think it could be really valuable in those kind of settings. So yeah, I think our net price calculator is a great tool. It in some cases won't add any more information than the ten percent calculator already offers, but we have to have it and we've made it kind of inclusive of everything that we do. Tillie Gottlieb (26:43) That's awesome. And that's actually gonna be my next question because I'm sort of anticipating what questions my students and families would have, which would be, okay, well, should I submit the FAFSA? Should I submit the CSS? Because usually you're not even given that option. So that's great that the net price calculator is helping with that. Adam Miller (26:55) Yeah. And what I would generally say to a family is, you know, use the 10% promise calculator, see what that bottom line is. If that fits within your budget, if you feel like, yep, that looks, that looks good, that's probably a good sign that submitting the CSS profile isn't gonna add a lot of extra value for you, right? You know, let your your gut response, you know, guide you there. But again, never hurts to submit the CSS profile. And if you're and if you are applying to multiple private colleges that require the CSS profile, then It's easy enough to just add Whitman to the list at that point. Tillie Gottlieb (27:26) So the mention of merit scholarships is one I want to linger on for just a second. And we also know, as we've said, that there are talent scholarships. A lot of schools have things like this or leadership or service. How how do those figure into that overall cost for families or the 10%, I should say? Adam Miller (27:45) Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. So yeah, we do offer some pretty generous academic and talent-based scholarships. And those don't require submitting any financial aid information at all, right? So for family that says, you know, I'm not doing the FAFSA or the CSS profile, they're still eligible for those, right? So I think of that as the foundation financially for a financial aid package. For students who earn merit or talent scholarships and the amount of those are larger than what they would have received through the 10% promise, then they come out ahead, right? They're gonna be. receiving a larger amount of scholarships than they would have through the 10% promise. And so that's what they get. For students who are doing the 10% promise and their merit scholarships are less than what they're going to get through the 10% promise, we fold in that merit scholarship kind of as the foundation and then build up from there to ensure that we meet the 10% promise. So it's essentially included in the 10% promise. And those talent or academic scholarships are guaranteed for all four years. So even if your income changes in future years and you no longer qualify for as much money through the 10% promise, no matter what the kind of academic and talent scholarships would serve as a foundation that's guaranteed no matter what. Tillie Gottlieb (28:53) Yeah, that's that's so great. And I, you know, I'm just sort of sitting here pondering this too. Another huge barrier for so many families is this guessing game each year, you know, of like how what might it cost? You know, as you said, there's sometimes families have medical issues or someone loses a job. I mean, I the the the madness of COVID too and what that did to sort of disrupt people's ability to plan and you know, hearing from I'm a millennial and hearing and you have young children and just thinking about okay, what could this, what is this gonna look like? What's even gonna be affordable? And you know, you and I are people who have all the insight in the world about how this works, and it still feels daunting, you know, or can feel so opaque about what's actually available. So and I'm curious too, you know, for even, you know, when I was working at Whitman, we were doing a lot to work with undocumented students, those that Yeah, don't don't do not have significant assets whatsoever, don't have the documentation for for those kinds of students. I imagine they fall under that sub hundred thousand, you know, in many cases category, but how how are those kinds of populations figuring into this this offer? Adam Miller (30:09) Yeah, no, I'm glad you brought that up, Tilly. And because it's really important, you know, I I I should have mentioned this earlier when we were kind of in the fine print area, is that the the 10% promise, because we are basing it on the FAFSA, you do need to be eligible to submit the FAFSA to qualify for the 10% promise. Right. That would be bad news for an undocumented student or an international student if we didn't already have like incredibly simple and transparent financial aid processes already in place for those students. So I won't go into maybe all those details right now, but we have a separate. Whitman International Student Financial Aid Application and a separate Whitman undocumented student financial aid application that really I think take this idea of transparency and simplicity for those families that have such a different experience with the financial aid system and make it so they know exactly what to expect from day one. Tillie Gottlieb (30:56) Yeah. Yeah. Because they are they're distinct processes for both of those populations. Are are other schools, I mean, I many, many schools have sort of you know, there's a lot of separate demonstration of funding that international students have to provide, et cetera. But are there others I'm trying to think of other schools or maybe do any come to mind that have these sort of very clear separate processes? Adam Miller (31:21) Yeah, I mean, what we started doing at Whitman a few years ago through our international student financial aid application as we were traveling with other groups of colleges and talking about how we do things. I've had multiple calls with, you know, leadership teams from those colleges. We're like, okay, what you're doing seems really interesting. You know, we're tired of requiring a CSS profile from every international applicant and then spending all this time doing a complicated calculation. That doesn't really match some of the cultural context students are coming from. There, yeah, there really should be a simpler way. And so I've walked other colleges through what we do. And I think several colleges have kind of iterated on that in a way that makes sense for those institutions. So yeah. So I think they there are other colleges that are developing, I think, separate kind of parallel processes for international students, possibly for undocumented students as well. But I would say that's an area where. I guess every time we're thinking about how to make something simpler and transparent, we always want to make sure that like we're thinking about every student who's going through the process for Whitman. Right. And you know that it's not a one size fits all model, but the the the good news with undocumented international students is that we're not tied to the federal aid system. It's it's all institutional funding that we're providing. Or in some cases there are other foundations that we work with. And so we just really try to work to make sure that we're very clear about what resources is a family bringing to the equation. What other sources of funding might they have and and what is it that Whitman is gonna promise to those families? And they all know that again from the moment you look at Whitman as an undocumented or an international student. Tillie Gottlieb (32:53) Which is such a I mean, and I've worked with international students, both who have a lot of assets and those who have no assets. And you know, there's the barriers are so high for them too. And of course, now with everything that's sort of transpiring globally, I think for them to have transparency and if they're gonna make this commitment to come here, is particularly when they're doing their application process, it's it the the value cannot be overstated. And I you know, and as we mentioned. You know, there are other schools there like Drew and Cornell College and Brandeis are moving towards other, you know, transparent pricing models or fixed pricing models. Do you think this becomes the norm? I mean, how are you? I mean, we hope so. I'm delighted that on your, you know, recruitment travels, people are asking you those questions. You know, we have at CEG we keep lists of colleges that offer complete financial aid or which schools are generous, and we'll link those in the notes, but it's That's still a guessing game, but yeah, how do you see what does your spidey sense tell you about where this may go? Adam Miller (33:57) Yeah, that's a good question, right? You know, I think that there are a couple of things that are true. One is that like colleges can be a little slow to adapt, right? And and and the financial aid system in particular has developed over many years and it's it's it it's tricky to change and again it's tied to some federal policy at some level. And so complicated and so I don't think change will happen quickly. But also, I mean I said this before, transparency builds trust. And at a time when colleges really need to work hard to, I think, build trust with the students and families that they're inviting to join their communities, I think there's going to be increasing demand to make a complicated process simpler and reduce stress and and kind of again build that trust. I think most colleges have those same goals, right? Colleges want to build trust with families. They don't necessarily want to make things more complicated than they have to be, but it does take some institutional willpower. In Whitman's case, we're fortunate to have some pretty significant financial aid resources to be able to use, right? So we're not going from a system where we're offering very little aid to all of a sudden doing a 10% promise. We were already meeting full financial need for all families. We already had a merit scholarship program in place. We already had these processes in place for international students. And so I think it may take some time for some colleges to move in that direction and some may never. But I do think there will be a growing number of colleges that realize that they need to find some way to communicate clearly, not just about the value that they provide, but also kind of what that that actual cost is going to be for families. Tillie Gottlieb (35:31) Yeah. And I think you're so right in in this trust conversation because we're seeing, and it sits in the news all the time, you know, is it worth going to college? What is the ROI? Is you know, is is in and people of all of all, you know, backgrounds of wealth and you know, varying degrees of assets are asking these questions. But I'm curious, you know, you're talking about there there have been these gradual changes from Whitman and I and as we said, like higher ed is a slow moving beast. Can you give me a little bit more insight into kind of those internal conversations? And, you know, I would imagine there were there's some things that maybe had to be compromised, like, you know, what were skeptics or critics within that conversation? What what were you bumping up against? Adam Miller (36:17) Yeah, I it's really good question. And I'll try to be succinct because I mean this was, you know, a year plus long conversation. And, you know, we really wanted to be thoughtful about how we went about this. So I guess what I would say is like looking back, it actually feels like it was a pretty clear path to where we landed because this does feel like it's part of Whitman's DNA. Right. Over the past decade, I mentioned before, right? We Like doubled our financial aid budget. We committed to meeting 100% need for all students. That's led to tripling the number of Pell eligible students and the number of first generation students at Whitman over the past decade. Right. So we were already, I think, doing things to create like accessibility and build generosity into our financial aid process. And When we saw how well the financial aid guarantee was received, kind of like as I saying before, we could see that there was demand for this kind of maybe more radical version of transparency. And so, you know, we're we try to not be complacent at wit. And even though we were already doing a lot of the things that get lifted up as being, you know, these are the most generous colleges for financial aid. And we were getting praised for kind of unprecedented transparency, but we also wanted to. Think about how to solve that question of simplicity and reducing stress and building trust, even more so with families. And so internally, I think our biggest question that we wrestled with was this question of like, are we oversimplifying things? Right. Right. Finances are complicated. And just saying 10% of income, it's easy to understand. It's something that families can do in their heads. There's a lot of benefits there, but it doesn't capture a family's full financial story in many cases, right? And I think the reason that we ended up saying like that is a real consideration, but thankfully we're building on a foundation where we already have a CSS profile that allows for us to account for super complicated financial circumstances and we have a commitment to meet full demonstrated need for students that are admitted. And so I think by doing those things first, it allowed us to not try to solve every problem through the 10% promise, but rather to just solve to to solve this. like specific problem, which is the traditional financial aid system, again, it works pretty well for some families, but other families feel left out. I think about the number of families I've met with who say say, I feel like I'm being punished for saving for college all these years, right? Every year we've been putting away a few thousand dollars for the last 18 years. And now I'm finding out that that's, you know, basically being counted against me in the financial aid Equation, right? And I'm like, those savers, right? Like people who've been saving for college. Yeah. They promise is going to be music to their ears, I hope, because we're not looking at that 529 plan, right? We're just looking at what their current year's income is. I think a lot about who we serve here in eastern Washington, right? There are a lot of farmers in eastern Washington. And the way that farm assets get taken into account in the traditional financial aid process is not always very advantageous for them. And it's tough because Those are real assets, but they're not liquid assets that they can use to pay for college, right? Again, this is the type of thing that I think a farmer or a small business owner will really respond well to. And they think about just kind of middle income families in high cost areas, right? Where their income looks, you know, okay on paper, right? They make pretty good money. But the traditional financial aid formula, because it is tiered to the point where sometimes you're paying 30 or 40% of every dollar that you earn at a certain place. They really start to feel pinched. And I think some of those middle income families that, again, the traditional aid process just hasn't worked well for. I think this is going to be really helpful for them as well. So, you know, again, what are we trying to solve here? Not every problem in financial aid, but we're giving everybody some simplicity and a foundation to start from. And for certain types of families that were getting left out of the previous process, they've got a real clear path to affordability that they didn't have before. Tillie Gottlieb (40:24) And s and the conversation for many years has been that middle class, those middle class families who are just left out entirely of this, you know, high tuition, high aid model. And it's it's so challenging. And those, as you say, with complicated assets or no assets, or you know, and and my plea to my colleagues on the other side of the desk, you know, who are in these financial aid offices. And I think it's really important to reiterate too, because And and at Whitman anyway, when we work in admissions and at many places, like that financial aid office is in the same building and you know these folks really well and you're working closely and they're real humans and they can be so helpful. And the goal is not to be confusing or to withhold access or money or aid. You know, it's it's we we are educators in our own right when we're working, you know, as AOs or even financial aid officers. And so my plea would be, yeah, you don't have to solve every problem, but just asking that there be some sort of intentional continual building towards more transparency and access as early in the process as possible. So well, and just to think about, okay, so now what? Right? What do we do with this information? You know, and as I've said, we we build as many free tools as we can. We have, you know, how to pay for college in four steps. But for a family who's listening right now, Adam, who who feels priced out from the vast majority of colleges, right before they've even started, or maybe who aren't quite yet. Trusting, like, it's really 1%. You know, that that was everybody's first question, right? Like, is this real? But but as, you know, as someone who's been in this field for this long, like what's the first thing you would tell a family to do right now who have, you know, a teenager who is looking at this process? Adam Miller (42:08) Yeah, I mean, you know, zooming out from Whitman, I think big picture. I think the first thing I'd say is make sure you're all on the same page about the financial side of things. I mean, having an honest conversation early in the process about the budget for the family for college can save a lot of heartache later. I think that occasionally, you know, I'll you know, meet a family looking at Whitman or, you know, a a family friend and they they they they just kind of assume that it would work itself out at the end and it puts I think students and and and parents in a really tough spot to go through the whole process and then realize that maybe that school that's at the top of your list just isn't going to work out financially. So I'd say start with that honest conversation. I would also just say like don't assume too much about how financial aid is going to play out at colleges. I think it's really easy to make the same mistake I almost did, which is to assume that you're going to be priced out. But financial aid offers can surprise, they can vary dramatically from college to college if you make assumptions or if you Like hear other people talking about their experiences and assume that that's gonna apply to you. I think like internet message boards, there may be some good things about them. I don't know, but there's one really bad thing, which is allowing people to try to learn from other people's stories when that story is just not going to be your story. And so yeah, I would just say like don't make too many assumptions in this process. And then, you know, from there, I think net price calculators, as you mentioned before and other tools that CEG and other places have available, allow you to kind of start building the conversation from there. Tillie Gottlieb (43:36) Yeah. And we actually do have in our handbook tips for how to discuss finances and financial aid at home because a lot of families don't even know where to start, or it feels like, you know, there's there's varying degrees of comfort, lots of anxiety wrapped up in it. So we'll link that too, just to kind of give folks a head start there. Are are there questions, Adam, you feel like families should be asking every school or qu or they should be asking themselves? Adam Miller (44:06) Yeah. I mean, I I think, yeah, first question, right? What is our actual realistic budget for the next four years, right? Like we're really thinking about it. You know, it's not like if you don't go to college, you won't have any expenses, right? You still gotta pay for food and housing no matter what you're doing. So I think being comprehensive about it, but asking that really good question about like what is what is realistic for our family? And is there a range there where we might be able to pay a little bit more for a certain type of experience? I think those are good that's a good question. I think it's fair to ask colleges. If there's a way that they can estimate their cost up front, every college should at least point you to a net price calculator, but they may have other tools that just aren't as well known. So I think it's a a good question to ask. I also think it's fair to ask like how stable an aid offer is and what's gonna happen in the future if circumstances change. Those are I think really important pieces to think about it not just as a first year offer, but really what is this college's commitment to you over the course of four years? Right. Tillie Gottlieb (45:03) And this makes me think of questions that I have my own students ask when they go to campus about, you know, are there academic programs that are gonna be cut or that are coming? Or are there, you know, are there athletic teams that you're gonna be un unveiling soon? But the same goes for financial aid, which is are there, you know, upcoming programs that you're rolling out or and you can ask those questions. There are financial aid offices. Those that contact information is right there online. There are real humans making these decisions. So you can you can and should ask those questions too. You know, is there anything coming down the pipeline that I should know that will also change my calculus? This has been so fantastic, Adam. Thank you so much. Is is there anything you wish I'd asked or anything that you, you know, just want to leave families thinking about in the grand scheme of things? Adam Miller (45:50) I mean, you ask great questions. I mean, y you didn't ask like what makes Whitman so great. But people can find that out on their own. I and I think that like at the end of the day, right, we're all it no matter what side of the desk we sit on, you know, we we all I think recognize that there's something really special about the college experience and the which is the education that you you receive, the ways that it helps you kind of Prepare for life after college, but also the ways that it opens you up to new possibilities, provides new experiences, gives you a chance to to to really make that strong transition into independence and and adulthood, right? So we're all trying to help students find that fit. And I guess like what I would just always say is that fit comes on so many levels and affordability and confidence about affordability is a piece of fit. And so, you know, we've talked a lot about that, but you know, I I I I I really just appreciate of your interest in this and you know, I feel really proud of the the steps that we've taken at Whitman. So appreciate the chance to to lift that up. Tillie Gottlieb (46:53) Yeah. Well, and I and I know it's we're joking a little bit about sort of this shameless promo of Whitman College because it happens to be my alma mater, but you know, it's in in truth, I think this is a wonderful case study of what thoughtfulness, gradual efforts, collaboration, you know, that that focus on generosity and transparency can actually look like in an industry that seems to not move quickly at all, but can seem so opaque. So Yes, it's Whitman, but more so it just gives me hope for what this you know, what higher ed can look like for for my students, for future students, for your girls, you know. So I'm grateful and yeah, appreciate your time so much and stay cool over there in that walla walla summer. Thanks, Adam Miller (47:40) My pleasure. Thank you so much, Tilly. Tillie Gottlieb (47:42) Adam. This is the kind of conversation I want every family to hear early, because clarity about money can change how students dream about college and what they can actually access. We'll link everything Adam and I mentioned in the show notes, along with CEG's free resources for building a smart, affordable college list. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.
