Show Notes
On this episode I had the honor of sitting down with Sam and Shannon Bergeron. Sam is a transgender man who transitioned in high school (in Texas) and who now works in college admissions at his alma mater, Hampshire College. Shannon is Founder of Core College Consulting, where she specializes in using a whole child college counseling™ approach. She’s been a school counselor for more than 20 years, a volunteer with Matchlighters Scholars program, and she’s also Sam’s mom, an ally, and an advocate for trans students.
We discuss a number of critical things trans youth, their counselors and caregivers should know as they navigate the college admission process, including:
The importance of understanding student information systems at your school
How to ensure safety in gendered spaces on campus
The value of offering, or improving trans-specific counseling services
Conversation starters for teachers, counselors, and administrators
How to research colleges
And much more
Play-by-Play
0:00 – Introduction – Who are Shannon and Sam?
1:43 – Welcome to the podcast
1:55 – Shannon and Sam share their backstories in advocating for trans youth
4:39 – What was Shannon’s experience of Sam’s transition in high school?
6:42 – Why is it important to talk about and advocate for trans youth?
9:57 – Ethan shares his personal ties to trans youth advocacy
10:45 – What are some of trans students’ rights at school?
15:19 – What are Shannon’s strategies for identifying places in the school system that protect trans youth?
17:38 – What are some of the impacts of calling a student by the wrong name?
19:20 – How can parents, caregivers, and counselors better support trans students?
21:55 – How do you find and create safe spaces in high school?
28:00 – What is Shannon’s advice for parents in similar situations?
32:15 – The power of grounding techniques
34:38 – What are some ways of sharing your story in a way that is impactful for others?
37:20 – What should counselors keep in mind?
39:25 – Sharing common terminology surrounding LGBTQIA+ identities
44:04 – What is Sam’s experience and advice in the college search process?
49:26 – ICYMI: CEG Podcast Episode 214 – Resources for LGBTQ+ Students from Campus Pride with Shane Windmeyer
49:53 – Advice and considerations for writing the college essay
56:32 – Closing advice for supporting the trans people in your life
Resources
Grounding techniques resources:
https://dialecticalbehaviortherapy.com/distress-tolerance/grounding/
https://www.inclusivetherapists.com/blog/understanding-different-types-of-grounding
https://www2.winona.edu/resilience/media/grounding-worksheet.pdf
https://www.acesdv.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Grounding-Worksheet.pdf
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:08
Hi CEG community, and welcome back to the college sa guy podcast. I'm your host. Ethan Sawyer, and it's my hope our work here brings a little more ease, joy and purpose to your life. So in this episode, I had the honor of sitting down with Sam and Shannon Bergeron. Sam's a transgender man who transitioned in high school in Texas and who now works in college admissions at Hampshire College his alma mater. Shannon is the founder of core college consulting, where she specializes in using a whole child counseling approach. She's been a school counselor for more than 20 years, a volunteer with our match sliders Scholars Program for the past four years. She's an ally and an advocate for trans students, and she also happens to be Sam's mom, so in our conversation, we got into a bunch of critical things that in Sam and Shannon's mind, trans youth and their counselors and caregivers should know when it comes to navigating this college admission process in particular, we talk about the importance of understanding student information systems at your high school, how to ensure safety in gendered spaces on campus. We talk about the value of offering or improving trans specific counseling services. Sam and Shannon shared some conversation starters for teachers, counselors and administrators who are interested in getting more conversation happening on campus around supporting trans students. We talked about how to research colleges and lots, lots more. You'll find a bunch of resources specifically for trans students in the show notes for the podcast, and I'll share a link for that at the end. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hi Shannon, hi Sam, hi Ethan, hello. Welcome to the podcast. I'm really glad y'all are here, so I'm curious. I'd love to hear from both of you talking about advocating for trans youth. I want to know when this became important to you. Maybe Shannon, you could go first.
Shannon Bergeron 1:59
Yeah. So working as a school counselor, I started over 20 years ago. Certainly, there were lots of issues that students would come in the door with, and I felt pretty equipped to handle pretty much most things that came through the door. And about 15 years ago, students started coming in and coming out as trans, and I realized I don't I didn't have the tools, I didn't have the language, I didn't have the resources to help and I I thought, I've got to figure this out. I've got to equip myself and and find the tools and resources. I knew that these were students who are at very high risk, they had they were suicidal at times, they had very serious mental health issues. A lot of them had really tough family situations. And navigating any of those things on their own can be really challenging for teenagers and putting that all together. I knew this was serious, and we needed to do the work, and we needed to do it fast.
Sam Bergeron 3:03
Sam, what about for you? Yeah, I mean, for me. So I came out as trans in my sophomore year of high school, and I had, at that point, already known a number of other trans people my age, and I was fairly well versed in what the terms were and what it meant to question your gender and think deeply about it. But for a couple of years, I was really focused on my own journey. I was lucky enough that my transition was, my physical transition was was pretty much over. By the time I graduated from high school, I had had surgery the summer before my senior year. I had already been on hormones. At that point, I didn't have much left that I really was, like, worried about, and thinking, you know, long and hard about. And so during college, and sort of now, after graduating from college, I was thinking more about, well, how can I help those who did not have it as easy as I did? You know, I have to recognize that in my transition, I had so much privilege to be able to do the things that I needed, and, frankly, stay alive, and I see constantly, specifically young people who are struggling with these things and just don't have it as easy as I did. So I wanted to use my position and my privilege to at least, at the very least, tell my story and talk about things that I did, or things that I had help with, or people that I went to for help, just as a way to share information and, yeah, educate people as much as I can.
Ethan Sawyer 4:39
Thanks, Sam and Shannon, I imagine for you that this was personal as well,
Shannon Bergeron 4:45
very personal about the time I started to figure things out for all of my students, and I'm in a flow, thinking whatever you throw at me, I can handle. Then Sam comes out. Right? And everything was different. All of a sudden, when it's your own child, all rules are off the table. It was kind of devastating, in a way, and it took me a long time to process and kind of deal with my own child, asking for these to be called a different name, and I'm I'm a different gender, and it it took us a long time for me to kind of shift and accept and what was surprising about that is I felt like I was the most supportive person I could possibly be. I was advocating for other teenagers in enormous ways. I was changing district policies to protect these kids at school, for whole school of people, and that just felt like part of my job, and it felt easy. And when students came in and said, I'm going by this name now. I'm like, Cool. I can totally roll with that. Is it with your parents, with your teachers, who knows, who doesn't know? I mean, I could just roll with it and it. I just had to do a 180 and address this totally differently. When it was my own child, I thankfully was in an environment where I had amazing counselors on my staff who were friends and supportive, and I leaned on those people hard because I knew that things would be different as a mom than as a counselor, and I knew I needed additional help, and I needed Sam to have other people, and it was so beautiful to have this team of people come together and lift us all up.
Ethan Sawyer 6:42
So why do you feel that talking about and advocating for trans youth is especially important right now? I
Shannon Bergeron 6:50
would say for me, these lives are at risk. These lives are in danger. These kids are at much higher risk for taking their own lives, and I'm not okay with that. I don't think that's okay. I feel like we should love everyone and accept everyone and recognize that we don't all have to think the same or look the same or be the same to get along and love each other and be kind to each other. So I think more than ever, this high risk group of teenagers who's struggling with things that many of us can't even imagine, deserve the same love and kindness as everybody else.
Ethan Sawyer 7:30
Sam, maybe for you,
Sam Bergeron 7:33
yeah. So you know some people might know that in June of this year, 2023 the Human Rights Campaign officially declared a state of emergency for LGBTQ plus youth, or LGBTQ plus Americans overall, because in the 2023 legislative session so far, there have already been over 500 anti LGBTQ bills proposed, over 75 of them have already become law, and a lot of them focus on on trans youth, specifically banning gender affirming care, banning specifically trans girls from playing sports, removing trans children you know, From school systems or from programs if their parents affirm their identities. You know, curriculum censorship, banning drag performances, all of these different things are being put into law. And part of why this is such a big risk for these, for this population, is, I mean, in looking at the numbers, nearly a third of queer youth have said, you know, that their mental health is really, really poor most of the time or always, due directly to these policies and legislation. You know, half of trans and non binary youth have seriously considered suicide in the last couple of years with, you know, students of color experiencing even higher rates than that. So this is genuinely a life or death issue for a not so small part of the population. You know, there are millions of Americans who identify as trans and non binary, who are being targeted by these bills and targeted by their schools, targeted by bullies, even in their own age groups. Frankly, it's, it's it's dangerous. So that's one of the reasons that this is so important to me. Is, you know, when I was in high school in, you know, 2016 I was starting my transition, and I was legally allowed to do that. Sure I had to jump through some hoops, but it saved my life. If I was still living in Texas as a 16 year old right now, that would be completely illegal. So that's sort of it hits home for me as well. I
Ethan Sawyer 9:56
want to share something actually. So I want to I. Sure that this topic is personal to me too. I have a nephew who transitioned right in high school right around the same time as you, Sam, and went through that process of trying to figure out how to navigate this college admission process and high school, oh, and life in this world, and I remember navigating some of that college admission stuff and writing essays, and do I write about it? Do I not write about it? So I just wanted to show that context that this is something that I've been thinking about a lot and have been, yeah, working on too. I'll put it that way. In a few minutes, we're gonna give advice to counselors on how they can support students. I'd love to start with students. Sam, what advice would you give to them? I
Sam Bergeron 10:46
would say my advice, you know, varies depending on what kind of school you're at. There are a lot of schools out there where it's really, really hard to find allies, or you're just not sure who those allies are in the building, especially if you're in a small town in a conservative state. And my advice for those students in particular is there are allies around you, even if they're not immediately visible. So part of your job in keeping yourself safe and comfortable and making sure school can be a safe space for you is finding those allies and doing a little bit of research and figuring out who in the building is going to be a safe person for you to be around and talk to about what you're truly going through. And then I think there are also plenty of places where you do have visible allies. If you've got a counselor in your building who has a safe space sticker on their door, you know that that's likely someone you can go and talk to about this gender journey you're going through, or it could be a teacher, or, you know, any older student who might be a mentor to you, you know, find those people in your building who are going to be allies, because that's really that's going to kind of make or break your ability to stay sane in high school, like You have to have friends, you have to have people standing behind you. That's my main advice.
Ethan Sawyer 12:05
Shannon, what advice would you give to students? So
Shannon Bergeron 12:08
some of the advice I have for students is honestly knowing what your rights are in school. I think this is a big one that people don't know. So the biggest one, there are many of them, but you have the right to have the same opportunities to participate and learn as everybody else, regardless of your gender, your gender identity, your race, your nationality, your disability, etc. You get to dress and present yourself the way that you want according to your own gender identity. You have the right to privacy. You get to choose who you tell and who you don't tell and how you tell, and nobody gets to tell that outside of you. That's totally yours. One of the things that I think a lot of students don't know is you actually have the right to start an affirming club, like a gay straight alliance, if there are any clubs allowed at school then, and it's a public school, then all clubs have to be allowed. So those are some of the basic rights that I think students don't know about. Certainly, you have the right to use the restroom and locker room that match your gender identity as well. And these are things that I think people aren't always aware of, that they have those rights at school. Oftentimes, even though these are your legal rights at school, it doesn't always mean that the people in charge of running the school district are following the law. So you do have some recourse. You are protected by Title Nine, by the Constitution, one of the things that can be a really effective tool, if you feel like you need to go down this path, is you can file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights through the Department of Education, having been a 504 coordinator for many, many years, and hearing parents of students with disabilities filing complaints with the Office of Civil Rights. I can tell you that as soon as a principal finds out that a parent is going to be making complaint to OCR, that typically is enough to light a fire and get things moving, they don't want to deal with the whole issue. That's going to come up with that. So it can be a really powerful tool. I think my caveat with what to do if things aren't going well, also really depends on the environment that you're in. So for students, I think finding your allies in the building, the adult allies in the building, is hugely important. Starting with your counselor should be a safe place. I can't guarantee that that's always going to be a friendly face, but it should be, and I think let's, let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they're there. Their job is to advocate for you. So it's a good starting point to test the waters and see who your allies are. Start with the people in the building and talk with them and work within the systems that they have, oftentimes to. To be honest, I have found a lot of the adults also don't know that these are the rights. They don't they're not equipped with these tools and resources. So helping your allies in the building understand and asking them to work with you and do this together can be really powerful way to get some support. So one of the things that I worked on with my counseling team that made a huge difference for students is identifying the places within the school system that protected them. So what we realized is only the legal documents have to have a legal name. So what we found is we went through, we just created a Google doc of where are all the places that we use a student's name or other identifying information that isn't legal and then let's come up with a system to change it so your student ID, the yearbook, graduation programs, award ceremonies, like anything that you're putting a student name on is not a legal document. So it doesn't matter what the name is. Students can have whatever name they want. So yeah, really, the only legal document in a high school is going to be the high school transcript, and that's it. Nothing else is, I mean, your diploma. You can't show your diploma to get any credit or get into college. It doesn't mean anything. It's a pretty thing that your parents hang on their wall and convincing, sometimes the adults that that's not a legal document takes a second, but generally, we can get there. And it actually worked out for lots of students, not just trans students, because I had students who were legally named this, but they went by this. So if they're going to get up and receive an award in front of their friends. They want to be called by the name they're known as, and so just didn't take a lot to do that, things like a substitute roster, you might have gone through all this process, and the teachers on board were using the correct names. Everything's good. And then there's a substitute, and they're calling role, and first of all, the gender markers on the roster, why? There doesn't need to be a gender marker to take attendance. So we pulled that off. And then there was a field that parents could put that was the preferred name, and it didn't matter who it was, any parent could put any preferred name for any student, and that's the name that printed on the sub roster. So it can be hugely distracting when all of a sudden you're dead named, or you're misgendered in front of your classroom with kids. And so these were the places where it's just not that hard to make some changes.
Sam Bergeron 17:38
Yeah, and I'm just gonna jump right in my experience with that particular thing in high school was, you know, ultimately, you're in school to learn and to feel comfortable and safe, right? It's really, really hard to stay focused in class when your teacher is calling you the wrong thing, not only because you're like, well, that's not me. That feels weird, but also because it feels sort of like a punch in the gut when you've made this really, really intense and difficult decision to come out to everybody in your world and say, I know you've known me as this one name for a long time, but you're going to need to change that. It feels like a really massive, yeah, like a punch in the gut. It hurts every single time you hear someone call you that wrong name or that dead name, a lot of students will you might hear them refer to that as their dead name, and it's especially uncomfortable when all of your peers around you are like, Well, what's that name? I don't know this person. They get confused. Then I'm feeling self conscious. I'm not able to focus. I'm not thinking about the classwork. I'm thinking about how uncomfortable I am in that moment. So it's a really, really easy change to not include legal names on rosters and things like that. It's an easy change for schools that makes such a massive difference for these students. And it's not just trans students. Someone has a nickname that they've been going by since they were five. Everyone knows them as this nickname. Everyone gets a little confused. If suddenly there's a different name being called out in class. It's just a weird moment. So it really is beneficial to all students to call them the name that they go by. So
Ethan Sawyer 19:20
let's shift and talk to adults, to parents, caregivers, counselors. How can they support trans students better?
Shannon Bergeron 19:28
I think from the counseling side, there's so many things that you can do within your school building, within your school district, within your system, if you are an affirming adult in the building, the priorities to keep you employed as an affirming adult in the building. So it is important to work within the system that you have, but figure out who the allies are among the adult community, particularly with the administration. Does. Leadership, there are always going to be some teachers and some adults in the building who are not necessarily allies, but it doesn't mean that they can't get on board with providing safe places for students to learn. So some of the things that I think some of the counselors can do are to create safe places and be visible. So as Sam mentioned earlier, having safe space stickers on the doors of anyone who's willing to put them up communicates to a whole group of kids. This is a place I can come and feel safe. Create those student groups, the Gay Straight Alliance, whatever you want to call it a Pride Alliance, let students leave that side note. I want to tell a story about how to get creative when a school that you're in maybe says, Nope, you cannot have a GSA. We can have a Fellowship of Christian Athletes, but we can't have a gay club, which did happen to me in a school I worked at. So I took a minute to take some breaths and regrouped, and went back to the principal and asked, Could I have a knitting club? And he said, Sure, happy to have a knitting club. Have a lot of avid knitter have a lot of knitting supplies, so just kind of spread the word that you know, we're gonna teach you some knitting, if you want, but also we're happy to talk about some gay issues, so if anybody wants to come, just come on in. So I think it's possible to get creative and be resourceful and still take care of the things that you need to do. I mean, it's unfortunate we shouldn't need to do that, but I think in that moment and in that situation, you also have to choose what Hillary were willing to die on, and I just didn't feel like that was where I was going to go with that particular school and that particular principal. And I thought, here's a way to do this. We're still getting what we need and making a difference, and that's what we did.
Sam Bergeron 21:54
Yeah. So one of the ways that I found safe spaces in my high school was, you know, firstly, Shannon, who is my mom, was working at the school that I went to as the lead guidance counselor, and so I already had a safe space. I knew I could go to her office when I needed to, but a vast majority of trans students don't have that automatically. So, you know, we had the pride alliance club at our school as well, and that was an additional safe space for me. I was surrounded by other students going through similar things, and we were talking sort of heavily about the issues we were facing and how we're getting through them, talking about coping mechanisms and ways to fight for each other and ways to find happiness even When Everything Feels like it sucks. But there were also staff and faculty sponsors for that group, and so I had a group of adults in the building that I knew, I knew I could always go and talk to them about gender issues or or queerness issues, and that was so, so, so important to me. So you know, some of our other ideas of ways that, as a counselor, you could create additional safe spaces in your school, you know, in a counseling office, if there's a little room that no one's using, I really like the idea of creating basically a panic room, a space where if a student is in crisis in the middle of the school day, maybe they're feeling suicidal, or they're they're feeling, you know, an urge to self harm, or they're just in a really dangerous place. They have a space they can go to get out of class, not just to get out of class, but to go and cry or scream or do some grounding activities in a quiet and safe and calm space. Because there are a lot of times where if, if a student isn't safe at home in their gender identity, if they don't have a supportive family, even if their friends aren't safe to be around like there, they have to have some place in their life that is safe with them. You can't go through your entire life without a single sort of haven of comfort. So as a counselor, if you're working in one of these buildings and you're seeing students, seeing students go through this experience, you know you can literally build that space for them and inevitably change their life a little bit by giving them not only physical space, but emotional space to do the processing that they need to do. So
Shannon Bergeron 24:17
one of the things the counseling staff probably needs to think about is counseling services specifically for trans students. Most people are not specifically trained on this in graduate school. I wasn't, I didn't know anything about it, and I've had to go and learn on my own, and it's made a huge difference. So it is worth the effort. Get training, get professional development, find somebody in your area and come train your staff. Have at least one person, even though, ideally, everyone on staff is trained on how to deal with some of these issues, but particularly within crisis and mental health. And some of these grounding techniques can be really helpful for these these students.
Sam Bergeron 24:58
I also want to say. That as as counselors, one of the things that you can really do to advocate for these students is ensure safety in the inherently gendered spaces on your campus. So there should be very few gendered spaces on campus, but often that's bathrooms and locker rooms, right? Even sometimes in gym class, you're separated into the boys and the girls. Firstly, my personal opinion is that gym class shouldn't be separated that way, but in spaces where you do feel that you have to separate by gender, like in bathrooms and locker rooms, you need to make sure that your students are able to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that they feel most comfortable in, and that they are safe doing so whether that's safe from harassment and bullying, safe from reprimanding principals or administrators, safe in all ways. So I mean, if you think about it, everyone has to use the restroom at some point during the school day. You're there seven or eight hours a day. And I've known so so many trans students who, out of fear of using the restroom and being bullied or, you know, mocked, they just don't go. They absolutely refuse to use any bathroom that's in a school building. And frankly, that's really dangerous for their bodies, plus it just sucks. It's uncomfortable. You're unable to stay focused in class. It's really unpleasant. So you really want to make sure that whatever the student is most comfortable in you can advocate for them to use the spaces that are that are comfortable for them, and part of that is creating a gender neutral bathroom space. So one of the things that we did, that I did, with the help of my mom in high school, was creating a gender neutral bathroom. We took some staff, single stall staff bathrooms that were formerly only for staff, and we've made gender neutral signs for them. And that way students who don't feel comfortable in any gendered restroom, like non binary, students who feel uncomfortable in both a men's and a women's room, they still have a safe space to go and just do their business, move on with their day and stay focused in class. So that's a really important thing as well.
Shannon Bergeron 27:08
To be clear, we did not build any restrooms. We used existing things in the facilities. I can hear people thinking, you create a bathroom so we don't have money for that. Here's what I'll say, though, there are single stall restrooms, I guarantee you, in your building, probably you don't know about it, there are coaches and principals and nurses with single stall bathrooms. I promise you they're in your building. Find them give access to the kids who need those to those restrooms. That was, that was a big one. And there were a couple of teachers at the beginning saying, like, I don't want students using the soft restroom. And we're like, this is going to be good for everybody, and we just need you to be on board with this. And then after, you know, two weeks, it was fine. Shannon,
Ethan Sawyer 28:00
you've been talking about, you know, stuff that counselors can do specifically. I'd love for you to share from your perspective as a parent, who's, you know, whose child transitioned, what was this like for you? And what advice would you give to other parents who might have a kid who's transitioning?
Shannon Bergeron 28:17
Great question. Thanks. Ethan, I think it was super difficult for us going through the process. I went through my own journey. My husband went through his own journey, and we kind of did it together and separately. And I didn't know anybody else at the time who had a child who's going through it that I felt like I could call or talk to or lean on. And I really felt like I needed that. I was struggling with grief and loss, and that surprised me. I wasn't expecting that, and I'm trying to be strong for Sam and do everything right, but also I was sort of needing to take my own mask off sometimes and just kind of fall apart. And I I've had to lean on people, which is hard sometimes to do anyway. And I found, I found some community, and I have some wonderful friends and some wonderful counselor friends, and thankfully, they were those people for me. They kind of did the research and figured out like they weren't parents going through it, but they helped me with what I needed, and they knew me well, and they helped me navigate it and be where I needed to be emotionally, which was kind of terrifying for a while. And I think about how much I work with these kids every day. This is my work, and this just threw me in a way that I can't even explain. So what I would say to parents who are going through this and your child comes out to you, it doesn't matter how close you are, how much you love each other and spend every minute together, it will shake you and. You're going to need a minute, and you're going to have to find your own support that is not your child. I can't emphasize that enough. You cannot lean on them. They need their own support. Your job as a parent to get that elsewhere. So give a therapist whatever you need to do. I'll say that at the school that I worked at and Sam went to, I've given them permission to share my name with any parent who's going through this, and I've had a number of parents reach out, and you just having somebody to talk to and validate that this feels like grief and loss, because it is, is huge. So find that community, find that support. Don't be afraid to reach out. You will need it. Need it. Need it because you need to have it together, and you need to fill your own cup so that you can then be there for your kids. I also want to say
Sam Bergeron 30:57
it was really, really important to me that my parents didn't do their processing in front of me after I came out, because it was hard enough to come out and feel like I was totally changing their life because I felt guilty about that. I knew that it was going to be emotionally difficult for the entire family, and my guilt would have been so much worse had I seen their struggle in front of my eyes. So I really appreciated that both of my parents intentionally did that sort of behind closed doors. They did their own processing. They figured it out. They found community in other people without necessarily letting me in on that or forcing me to feel like it was my responsibility to guide them through it, or teach them or educate them. So from my perspective, it's hugely important that you do this processing on your own and let your child do their own processing separately.
Shannon Bergeron 31:52
If you need somebody to talk to, whether you're a parent or a teenager, there's a resource in the resource list called ally parents. This is a group of caring adults been trained, and you can text or email and just know there's a supportive person on the other end who understands and is willing to chat with you at any time. You can even choose them by the state that you're in. Find somebody in your state.
Ethan Sawyer 32:16
One of the things that y'all both mentioned earlier was the notion of grounding techniques. And I wonder if either of you be willing to share an example of a grounding technique that's been useful.
Sam Bergeron 32:26
So when you're feeling really in your head about the struggles that you're having, you're thinking really heavily and sort of ruminating on what sucks in your life. Grounding techniques are really helpful for bringing you back to the ground, bringing you back into your body. So some things are my favorite, personally, is temperature. So if you go to the bathroom and run the sink at really, really cold, or even put some ice water in the sink and then stick your hands in it for as long as you can stand it, it's not harming you at all. It's just cold water. In fact, cold has been proven to be pretty good for you, but it starts to bring you back into the physical sensations of your body, so that you can sort of start to pull yourself out of that emotional distress and that feeling of, you know, emergency, that everything sucks and you just can't do it anymore. So, so that's one way. Other ways could include exercise. I know it kind of sucks to hear that, but it actually does help. It brings you back into your body in that same way, because you're focusing more on your breathing, even the classic breathing techniques that you can do, like, you know, breathe in for four, hold for three, out for seven those are some great breathing exercises that start to bring you back into your body. But like I said, my favorite is something that's even a little bit more extreme than that. So getting your hands cold to the point where it kind of hurts a little bit, it's a really healthy and and grounding way to sort of start to move past that emotional distress.
Shannon Bergeron 34:00
Love that. I also love when kids can really get their heart rate up, and you can do it quickly wherever you are, whether you want to just do some jumping jacks or squats or something to get your heart rate up like you can't help because the blood and oxygen now moves to a different part of your body, so you're sort of forced to kind of regroup. That's another thing that can be really helpful. You know, in a in a school or taking a walk, I used to go, Hey, let's, let's walk and talk, versus just sitting there and just being outside, using your senses, you know, trying to be mindful and and grounding. Can that can be helpful too.
Ethan Sawyer 34:38
Sam, one thing I sense that you're good at, because you've already been doing it in this conversation, is sharing impact. I'm curious what your experiences have been. Maybe you can give us some advice on how to share impact in a way that will land for folks like what seems to work pretty well when sharing how someone has affected you and what seems to work maybe less well. Yeah.
Sam Bergeron 34:58
So I think, um. So, you know, ultimately, getting Getting Personal With it is the best way that I found that people react. You know, I think there are lots of people out there who maybe don't, quote, believe in the trans existence or the trans identity, but when they meet someone, especially if it's someone that they already know and maybe even like that can make a huge difference. You know, I've even had family members who were really, really not on board, and were even posting hateful things online about trans people before I came out. And then once I came out, they rethought it. They thought, Oh, someone I love is going through something that I now know about, and I'm going to rethink my stance on this when it comes to teachers, the best way to sort of approach that and say, Hey, this thing that you're doing, or this thing that you're saying regularly is hurting me in this way, I would never come into it from a place of like malice, Feeling like you as a teacher are a terrible teacher for doing this. I'm really, you know, angry or even hateful about it. I don't do that because I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're trying your best, even teachers who don't get it care about their students. And so if a teacher is misgendering me or dead naming me, but they're trying. Generally, I don't even bring it up because they're trying, and that's ultimately what matters most to me. Those are not the people that are hurting me intentionally or hurting me the most, even. So I try to be honest about it and be realistic with my expectations from these adults, especially since some of this is generational. You know, I grew up with the age of the internet, hearing these terms and knowing what gender identity was all about at a really young age. I know that that's a privilege that I have, that not everybody has, and so I try to expect too much of the adults in my life. And, you know, be realistic with that, but when it comes to talking about the ways that their words have impacted me, you know, I try to be really forthcoming and honest, but also kind about it, because that's really how people respond the best is when they don't feel attacked. Because if they do feel attacked, they're going to get defensive and likely dig their heels in even more with that original belief,
Shannon Bergeron 37:19
another thing that counselors might struggle with a little bit and can do is having some conversation starters with teachers who maybe not 100% on board. So if you have a teacher that you're working with who says, I don't want to call that student by this name instead of that name, or this gender instead of that gender, that pronoun, because I don't believe in it, so I don't want to do it. A great conversation starter with that teacher. Can be in a calm way. You know, outside of class, can we agree that we want the student to learn in your classroom? Yes. Can we agree that we want the student to feel safe while in your classroom? Yes, the answer is not yes. That's a different conversation. And teachers really can get here any adult, I feel like anybody can get here. When you really talk about you're going to have students in your room who are not the same as you in a lot of different ways, and that's okay. That's not the point. If you go back to what is your core job and what you need to do, and like your belief system doesn't need to be part of that. It really gives teachers a space, or other adults the space to go. I don't have to change who I am, and I can still help the student feel safe and learn, which is what I'm here to do. That's my job. And I think certainly, if you're working in a public school, you're you're going to have many students with many things that you know, you don't believe, with and and that's okay. You can still teach them. They can still learn. They can be safe. Everyone can go home at the end of the day, and it's a win. And really just haven't found once you have a thoughtful, meaningful conversation with the teacher, that they're not on board with that. I've just never met a teacher who just doesn't care about kids in general, and I think coming back to finding that common ground is a great way to approach it, and it also feels less confrontational.
Ethan Sawyer 39:25
Thank you. First of all, one of the things that I want to do in the show notes is put a list of some of these terms, so that folks who are just, you know, learning about trans youth can become more familiar with I wonder if you could highlight a few that you feel like are especially important for folks who are listening?
Sam Bergeron 39:40
Yes, absolutely. So I'll start with some of the things we've said so far. So a dead name refers to, typically, a birth name, a name that was given to someone at birth that they no longer go by. This is a colloquial term a lot of trans folks use to signify that that version of me no longer exists. May. Misgendering is the act of using the wrong pronoun for somebody. So you know, when I changed my pronouns to he, him, I still got called she, but also I got called Miss or ma'am, or I would get lumped in with, quote, ladies, if we were being split up in class by gender, those things are misgendering, and it feels really, really bad. And then some of the other things, you know, the word cisgender. We haven't said it much here so far, but you may hear that cisgender just refers to somebody who still identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth. So you know, my mom, for example, assigned female at birth, still identifies as a woman, she's cisgender, anyone who does not identify with that gender assigned at birth would be considered under the trans umbrella, although some people have different opinions about that, depending on how their personal experience with gender has looked. And then there's also, I want to describe quickly, the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation. So these things sort of get lumped in together as part of the LGBTQ experience. Sexual orientation is when you're referring to someone as a homosexual, or, you know, gay or lesbian or bisexual or asexual, that refers to attraction the kind of other people that you might want to have relationships with specifically, typically romantic or sexual relationships. Gender identity is not at all tied to that. So a lot of people assume, Oh, you, you know, quote, became trans, which also means you became gay or something like that. They're not tied to each other at all. So for me, I've always been attracted to men, so for a while, identified as a straight woman, and then now I identify as a queer man, because I am still attracted to men. That has not changed at all, but the way that I come into that experience has changed because my gender identity has changed. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about that difference, because that gets misconstrued quite a bit.
Shannon Bergeron 42:01
I'd love to share a little bit more about impact. Follow up with Sam said, one of the things that I've noticed is when people are talking about a particular issue, it's this sort of out there, esoteric issue. We're talking about all LGBTQ plus people, or all gay people are. We're talking about gay marriage. It's just this idea. And all of a sudden, when you bring a personal connection into it, it changes everything. So people think I don't. I've never met a trans person. And I'm like, well, actually, you have, you just don't know it. And when people meet Sam, partially because Sam's an amazing human being, I might be a little biased. They love him. I mean, literally everyone who knows Sam and meets him loves this person. And so then they think, Oh, I like Sam. So actually, now I'm, I'm okay with if Sam needs this, I want that to happen, which is really different than this law or whatever. So I think making it personal and going, Hey, this is a real person we're talking to and talking about can make a huge impact. When we were in Dallas presenting at the attack act conference, and we were nervous, not gonna lie, we were a little terrified. We're in person, we're in this room. We didn't know if it'd be friendly or not, and we're just putting it all out there. And, and I've been a lot of conferences and a lot of sessions, and people bolt at the end of those things, or they're on their phone, or, you know how that goes. First of all, every eye was like glued when Sam was talking, nobody was looking at their phone. And I have never seen probably 50% of the people in the room stay after and come up and want to talk to him and just say how much his story meant to them. And that was so moving and personal. And I just that was such a great example of impact. Lovely.
Ethan Sawyer 43:55
Thanks for sharing that. I love seeing your smile. I wish folks could see just like the impact of you sharing that impact. So Sam, talk to me a little bit about the search for college process. Like, is that different for trans students? Like, tell me maybe a little bit about your experience.
Sam Bergeron 44:13
For me, when I was first starting to research colleges, I literally typed into the Google search bar, you know, trans friendly colleges in the United States. And I found a list from some website that had, I think, 10 different schools in the US that were well known for being friendly to trans students. That was where I started. And it was a little difficult for me to find the intersection between a college that was going to be really safe for me as a trans person, but also a college that I really wanted to go to for their academic program, or for some other reason. Ultimately, I ended up getting really lucky. The school that I chose to go to I had seen at a college fair for colleges that change lives, back when I was in eighth. Grade, because my mom, being a high school counselor, essentially dragged me to this fair when I was in eighth grade, and I went and talked to the rep for Hampshire College, and they had said, we're a really small school. We're very liberal arts focused. It's very non traditional and free in the curriculum, and also we don't have grades. And I was like, sold. So then later, when I was doing my college search and Hampshire came up on that list of schools that were friendly for trans students, I thought, oh my gosh, this is perfect. So I did a little bit more research about the schools on my list and made sure that you know, current and former students were also saying that it was truly a friendly and safe space to be I tried to get, I actually did get in contact with some current students and chatted with them about what their experience was when I was doing my my campus visits. And that's really what sold it to me, was talking to the current students and seeing what the actual vibe of the community was like. So that's that's my advice for when you're searching for colleges, talk to people Googling and looking at the websites of the colleges. Is that is a really important first step, but you're not going to get all the information that way, because what's on the website is going to be really curated by the marketing team of the college. And you really want to get the the nitty gritty of what it's actually like in the day to day. So that's what I did. The other cool thing is that the campus pride index has, you know, so many resources for finding schools that are going to be safe for you. A little side note as well, when looking at colleges that would not only be safe, but like sort of celebrate you as a queer person. The Campus pride index has a list of 151 colleges where their student health insurance plan actually covers 100% of transition costs, or at least cover some of transition costs. So there are, you know, over 100 schools in the US where, if you attend the school and you decide to sign up for their student health insurance, they will cover your transition. My roommate, when I was in college, had top surgery, completely covered, 100% covered by our colleges health insurance. So that's a really cool thing as well, because especially for students who don't have family support, don't feel like they can afford to get these medical services on their own, there are other options for you, especially once you turn 18 and have full legal control over your your medical choices. So those are just some things to think about when you're when you're in that college search process. Another thing to think about when you're doing your college search is you're not just looking for a college. You're looking at a new place you're going to live for at, you know, around four years. So think about the state that you're considering moving to, you know, the most supportive school in the world can't help you with everything if there are state laws that prohibit you from transitioning or from doing certain things or from finding appropriate health care. So do some research about the legislation in the states that you're considering moving to do some research about the safest states that you could possibly move to, especially if you're living in currently in a state that's not very safe for you. And even beyond that, look at other resources in the area outside of the school. So medical resources, because you're going to have to find a doctor or a therapist or a psychiatrist if you want to start your transition in college, so you want to make sure that there are providers in that area that will be able to help you and support you in a kind and supportive way and caring way. But even, you know, social groups for for LGBTQ folks, you know, what does the local Pride Parade look like every year? Is it big? Is there a big community? Those are the kinds of things you want to look at when you're searching for a school. Because, like I said, it's not just the school. You're moving to a new place, and you really want to think about all those different pieces of it. Shannon, what would you add to
Ethan Sawyer 49:07
this? Well, the
Shannon Bergeron 49:08
campus pride index also has some good resources on LGBTQ specific college fairs. These are resources that you know are more recent for students that didn't exist, you know, 1015, years ago. So there are more opportunities for students to explore this than there have been
Ethan Sawyer 49:26
lovely. Quick side note for those listening, there's a whole separate episode with Shane windmire podcast episode from a few years ago that's on campus pride. Shane started campus pride, and it's got great questions to ask when visiting campuses. It's got a link to the campus pride, trans policy clearing house. It's got information on how to find scholarships. And we've also got, and we'll put this in the show notes, a link to 50 plus more resources. Let's talk essays for a few minutes. I'd love to hear about your experience Sam, writing your college essays at. And then I'd love to hear from you, Shannon, and how you advise students when they're trying to wrestle with this question of like, do I write about trans identity or not? So Sam, maybe you first?
Sam Bergeron 50:09
Yeah, definitely. So I wrote my common app personal statement about my gender journey, specifically about my fundraising for my own surgery. So even though I had full parental support, we had basically made the decisions that I would pay for it myself as a way to basically learn how to be an adult and learn how to fundraise for myself, which I absolutely appreciate, and was a great lesson for me. But so that's what I wrote my essay about. I felt really strongly that that was a really important part of who I was at that time in my life. It was taking up a vast majority of my mental energy and physical energy and emotional energy. And I had been told, you know, the thing you should write about in your personal statement is the thing that is the most important to you in your life. And so that's what I wrote about. What's interesting now is that I am able to go back and read my entire application because I work at the college that I went to, and I realized recently, when I went back through and read the entire application, that of the seven different things I submitted, six of them were largely about my transition and my gender journey, even my recommendation letters, every single one of My rec letters talked about it, and for me, in reading it now, I kind of came across as one sided. It came across that that was the only thing in my life. So my advice now that I wouldn't have even thought of when I was applying originally, is, if it is such a huge part of your life that you want to write your common app essay, your main personal statement about it fantastic, but intentionally choose other parts of your life to write about in your other shorter statements or short answers, because you don't want to come across as, you know, single faceted. You want to come across as the vibrant and multifaceted and, you know, complex person that you are, because every single one of us has a really complex identity and all these different pieces that work together to make us who we are, right? So I really recommend figuring out what other pieces of your life you really care about and making sure to emphasize those just as much as your gender identity, because while that may be a big part of your life right now, and may continue to be a big part of your life. I highly doubt it's the only part of your life that matters to you, and that's what you want to get across to your readers, because most college admissions counselors also are looking really holistically at who you are overall, not you know that one single piece of you. Thank
Ethan Sawyer 52:41
you. Sam Shannon, what would you add to that?
Shannon Bergeron 52:46
I think the answer is the same answer as to most questions related to college admissions. And that is, it depends. There are times when it makes sense to for students to talk about it, and there are times when it doesn't. And the first question is, when students are out. First of all, I really cherish that information, and I carry that carefully with them, and I it's such a privilege when people share that with me, and we talk about, how much of that do you want to share your application, and where does it make sense for that to be? And also, are you out to your parents? And are your parents going to read your essay? So there's some basic logistics of who knows and who might know, and is this safe for you? And assuming that the answer is yes, what I find is, for the most part, students are not if they're writing about it in their essay, it's a piece of that essay. But it's not the whole essay. There might be a little reference to something, or they might kind of drop in about their identity, but, but interestingly, so many students struggle with what identity even means to them, the kind of struggle of it's not just the things that you do, but just who you are and and so it kind of depends on the depth of reflection that a student has a maturity and not everybody's able to articulate that they're not far enough away from it to articulate it in an essay. Yet I think Sam is kind of an old soul anyway, and was way more of a grown up, even at age four than most people. So he had the ability to reflect and think about that in a way that I think, honestly, a lot of teenagers just don't. They're just not ready for that yet. Yeah. So
Sam Bergeron 54:31
I think it comes down to, you know, if you're this student, if you're trying to figure out, should I come out of my essay or not? You know, yeah, think about those other pieces of your identity. Think about, is this something that I want to be a piece of what the admissions counselors know about me? Because ultimately, they don't, likely, they don't know anything about you other than what you put in that application. So you really want to think about, what is it that I want them to know about me? Do I want them to take into account that I've really, really struggled with this thing, but persevered through? It, or have I not struggled that much, and it feels like a small piece of me that doesn't affect my academic work? Does it not feel relevant? So it really depends on what your experience has been with that gender journey, and how you want that to come across. For those
Ethan Sawyer 55:16
of you who are listening and wondering, how do I even figure out what my other identities are on the other sides of me. We'll put in the show notes, a link to two different exercises that you can do. One is specifically on identities. And then there's another one that'll just it's a YouTube video that'll help you as a student who's listening, think about what are the different sides of me that I could potentially show and then we've got a separate blog post that's called, should I come out in my personal statement? That's part one. And then part two is like examples of other students who have talked about, you know, LGBTQ identity in different ways. I just want to underscore and say yes, yes, yes. There are so many different ways to do this, and you'll see more in those blog posts. So let's talk resources for a second, for folks who are listening, whether it's students, you know, parents, caregivers, counselors, what resources would you point folks to? So
Shannon Bergeron 56:06
we've curated a list of all of the resources that we've used. You know that I've collected in my toolbox as a counselor, and that you know, through our work together, we've put together so we have great information for students, parents, counselors from Human Rights Campaign, National Center for Transgender Equality, etc. So we have them all in one place, so we're happy to link those and share with everybody.
Ethan Sawyer 56:32
Lovely as we close here, what would you like folks to take away? What would you like folks to remember? I think the
Shannon Bergeron 56:39
thing that I would like, particularly counselors, I think, to take away is this is hard work sometimes, and important work, and it's very fulfilling. And when you make that connection with students, and you kind of figure out the things to help and it works, it's an amazing feeling. And so my challenge to you is to take this information and then teach another person.
Sam Bergeron 57:06
My advice, I think, is really for parents, actually for parents of trans students who you know, if these parents are maybe struggling with understanding what's going on with their kid or figuring out how best to support them, my best advice is listen to the trans people in media and in your life, hear what they're saying and really take it to heart. That could be, you know, looking up trans celebrities and seeing what they're saying about their gender journey. It could be, you know, watching movies or reading books, you know, even specifically like autobiographies of trans folks who are writing about that experience. Elliot page just came out with a book, a memoir about his life that's I haven't read it yet, but I've heard really great things, and that's one of those resources that you really want to hear it right from the source. When you're doing research and trying to figure out what all this means and how this affects your life, look at as many resources as physically possible, because it is so, so important to get that nuanced and varied perspective. Because every trans person has a different experience of gender and the trans experience, just as every human has a different life experience, we are all different in our transition. And I think it's really, really important to see the different ways that that can show up for people and the different ways that you can support your kid as a parent. And ultimately, bottom line, listen to your kid ask them what's going on. Try your darndest to be that force of comfort in their life so that they feel safe talking to you honestly. One of the things I really appreciated when I was going through this as a teenager was that as scared as I was to come out, I never once thought that anything I could say to my parents would make them love me less. And that is all due to my parents, you know, teaching me from day one that there was nothing I could say that would make them love me less. So really try to be that for your kid, if you're not already, and show up for them in ways that they need. Ask them what it is that they need, and really take that to heart and do what is, whatever it is that they need, even if it sounds weird to you or if it's not something you did as a kid, that's really the best way to show up for these people and to really make a difference in the lives of trans youth.
Ethan Sawyer 59:23
Sam Shannon, thank you so much. Thank
Sam Bergeron 59:25
you. Was a pleasure. Hi
Ethan Sawyer 59:28
friends. Thanks ever for listening at college essay guide.com/podcast you'll find the show notes for this episode, including a link to some of the grounding techniques resources that Shannon and Sam described, you'll also find a blog that she and Sam wrote called 10 critical things trans youth their counselors and caregivers should know in high school and when applying to college. And you'll find a link to a spreadsheet with more than 50 resources for LGBTQ plus students. It's pretty comprehensive. It's something that I put together with some COVID. Colleagues for a session at the national conference a couple years ago. If you're not on our email list, we'd love to have you just go to college. Sa guy.com and opt into any of the free resources we've got. We're releasing new resources all the time. In fact, I think we released 10 last week, and that's the best place to learn what's coming up in our world. Talk to you soon, and as ever, stay curious. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:08 Hi CEG community, and welcome back to the college sa guy podcast. I'm your host. Ethan Sawyer, and it's my hope our work here brings a little more ease, joy and purpose to your life. So in this episode, I had the honor of sitting down with Sam and Shannon Bergeron. Sam's a transgender man who transitioned in high school in Texas and who now works in college admissions at Hampshire College his alma mater. Shannon is the founder of core college consulting, where she specializes in using a whole child counseling approach. She's been a school counselor for more than 20 years, a volunteer with our match sliders Scholars Program for the past four years. She's an ally and an advocate for trans students, and she also happens to be Sam's mom, so in our conversation, we got into a bunch of critical things that in Sam and Shannon's mind, trans youth and their counselors and caregivers should know when it comes to navigating this college admission process in particular, we talk about the importance of understanding student information systems at your high school, how to ensure safety in gendered spaces on campus. We talk about the value of offering or improving trans specific counseling services. Sam and Shannon shared some conversation starters for teachers, counselors and administrators who are interested in getting more conversation happening on campus around supporting trans students. We talked about how to research colleges and lots, lots more. You'll find a bunch of resources specifically for trans students in the show notes for the podcast, and I'll share a link for that at the end. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hi Shannon, hi Sam, hi Ethan, hello. Welcome to the podcast. I'm really glad y'all are here, so I'm curious. I'd love to hear from both of you talking about advocating for trans youth. I want to know when this became important to you. Maybe Shannon, you could go first. Shannon Bergeron 1:59 Yeah. So working as a school counselor, I started over 20 years ago. Certainly, there were lots of issues that students would come in the door with, and I felt pretty equipped to handle pretty much most things that came through the door. And about 15 years ago, students started coming in and coming out as trans, and I realized I don't I didn't have the tools, I didn't have the language, I didn't have the resources to help and I I thought, I've got to figure this out. I've got to equip myself and and find the tools and resources. I knew that these were students who are at very high risk, they had they were suicidal at times, they had very serious mental health issues. A lot of them had really tough family situations. And navigating any of those things on their own can be really challenging for teenagers and putting that all together. I knew this was serious, and we needed to do the work, and we needed to do it fast. Sam Bergeron 3:03 Sam, what about for you? Yeah, I mean, for me. So I came out as trans in my sophomore year of high school, and I had, at that point, already known a number of other trans people my age, and I was fairly well versed in what the terms were and what it meant to question your gender and think deeply about it. But for a couple of years, I was really focused on my own journey. I was lucky enough that my transition was, my physical transition was was pretty much over. By the time I graduated from high school, I had had surgery the summer before my senior year. I had already been on hormones. At that point, I didn't have much left that I really was, like, worried about, and thinking, you know, long and hard about. And so during college, and sort of now, after graduating from college, I was thinking more about, well, how can I help those who did not have it as easy as I did? You know, I have to recognize that in my transition, I had so much privilege to be able to do the things that I needed, and, frankly, stay alive, and I see constantly, specifically young people who are struggling with these things and just don't have it as easy as I did. So I wanted to use my position and my privilege to at least, at the very least, tell my story and talk about things that I did, or things that I had help with, or people that I went to for help, just as a way to share information and, yeah, educate people as much as I can. Ethan Sawyer 4:39 Thanks, Sam and Shannon, I imagine for you that this was personal as well, Shannon Bergeron 4:45 very personal about the time I started to figure things out for all of my students, and I'm in a flow, thinking whatever you throw at me, I can handle. Then Sam comes out. Right? And everything was different. All of a sudden, when it's your own child, all rules are off the table. It was kind of devastating, in a way, and it took me a long time to process and kind of deal with my own child, asking for these to be called a different name, and I'm I'm a different gender, and it it took us a long time for me to kind of shift and accept and what was surprising about that is I felt like I was the most supportive person I could possibly be. I was advocating for other teenagers in enormous ways. I was changing district policies to protect these kids at school, for whole school of people, and that just felt like part of my job, and it felt easy. And when students came in and said, I'm going by this name now. I'm like, Cool. I can totally roll with that. Is it with your parents, with your teachers, who knows, who doesn't know? I mean, I could just roll with it and it. I just had to do a 180 and address this totally differently. When it was my own child, I thankfully was in an environment where I had amazing counselors on my staff who were friends and supportive, and I leaned on those people hard because I knew that things would be different as a mom than as a counselor, and I knew I needed additional help, and I needed Sam to have other people, and it was so beautiful to have this team of people come together and lift us all up. Ethan Sawyer 6:42 So why do you feel that talking about and advocating for trans youth is especially important right now? I Shannon Bergeron 6:50 would say for me, these lives are at risk. These lives are in danger. These kids are at much higher risk for taking their own lives, and I'm not okay with that. I don't think that's okay. I feel like we should love everyone and accept everyone and recognize that we don't all have to think the same or look the same or be the same to get along and love each other and be kind to each other. So I think more than ever, this high risk group of teenagers who's struggling with things that many of us can't even imagine, deserve the same love and kindness as everybody else. Ethan Sawyer 7:30 Sam, maybe for you, Sam Bergeron 7:33 yeah. So you know some people might know that in June of this year, 2023 the Human Rights Campaign officially declared a state of emergency for LGBTQ plus youth, or LGBTQ plus Americans overall, because in the 2023 legislative session so far, there have already been over 500 anti LGBTQ bills proposed, over 75 of them have already become law, and a lot of them focus on on trans youth, specifically banning gender affirming care, banning specifically trans girls from playing sports, removing trans children you know, From school systems or from programs if their parents affirm their identities. You know, curriculum censorship, banning drag performances, all of these different things are being put into law. And part of why this is such a big risk for these, for this population, is, I mean, in looking at the numbers, nearly a third of queer youth have said, you know, that their mental health is really, really poor most of the time or always, due directly to these policies and legislation. You know, half of trans and non binary youth have seriously considered suicide in the last couple of years with, you know, students of color experiencing even higher rates than that. So this is genuinely a life or death issue for a not so small part of the population. You know, there are millions of Americans who identify as trans and non binary, who are being targeted by these bills and targeted by their schools, targeted by bullies, even in their own age groups. Frankly, it's, it's it's dangerous. So that's one of the reasons that this is so important to me. Is, you know, when I was in high school in, you know, 2016 I was starting my transition, and I was legally allowed to do that. Sure I had to jump through some hoops, but it saved my life. If I was still living in Texas as a 16 year old right now, that would be completely illegal. So that's sort of it hits home for me as well. I Ethan Sawyer 9:56 want to share something actually. So I want to I. Sure that this topic is personal to me too. I have a nephew who transitioned right in high school right around the same time as you, Sam, and went through that process of trying to figure out how to navigate this college admission process and high school, oh, and life in this world, and I remember navigating some of that college admission stuff and writing essays, and do I write about it? Do I not write about it? So I just wanted to show that context that this is something that I've been thinking about a lot and have been, yeah, working on too. I'll put it that way. In a few minutes, we're gonna give advice to counselors on how they can support students. I'd love to start with students. Sam, what advice would you give to them? I Sam Bergeron 10:46 would say my advice, you know, varies depending on what kind of school you're at. There are a lot of schools out there where it's really, really hard to find allies, or you're just not sure who those allies are in the building, especially if you're in a small town in a conservative state. And my advice for those students in particular is there are allies around you, even if they're not immediately visible. So part of your job in keeping yourself safe and comfortable and making sure school can be a safe space for you is finding those allies and doing a little bit of research and figuring out who in the building is going to be a safe person for you to be around and talk to about what you're truly going through. And then I think there are also plenty of places where you do have visible allies. If you've got a counselor in your building who has a safe space sticker on their door, you know that that's likely someone you can go and talk to about this gender journey you're going through, or it could be a teacher, or, you know, any older student who might be a mentor to you, you know, find those people in your building who are going to be allies, because that's really that's going to kind of make or break your ability to stay sane in high school, like You have to have friends, you have to have people standing behind you. That's my main advice. Ethan Sawyer 12:05 Shannon, what advice would you give to students? So Shannon Bergeron 12:08 some of the advice I have for students is honestly knowing what your rights are in school. I think this is a big one that people don't know. So the biggest one, there are many of them, but you have the right to have the same opportunities to participate and learn as everybody else, regardless of your gender, your gender identity, your race, your nationality, your disability, etc. You get to dress and present yourself the way that you want according to your own gender identity. You have the right to privacy. You get to choose who you tell and who you don't tell and how you tell, and nobody gets to tell that outside of you. That's totally yours. One of the things that I think a lot of students don't know is you actually have the right to start an affirming club, like a gay straight alliance, if there are any clubs allowed at school then, and it's a public school, then all clubs have to be allowed. So those are some of the basic rights that I think students don't know about. Certainly, you have the right to use the restroom and locker room that match your gender identity as well. And these are things that I think people aren't always aware of, that they have those rights at school. Oftentimes, even though these are your legal rights at school, it doesn't always mean that the people in charge of running the school district are following the law. So you do have some recourse. You are protected by Title Nine, by the Constitution, one of the things that can be a really effective tool, if you feel like you need to go down this path, is you can file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights through the Department of Education, having been a 504 coordinator for many, many years, and hearing parents of students with disabilities filing complaints with the Office of Civil Rights. I can tell you that as soon as a principal finds out that a parent is going to be making complaint to OCR, that typically is enough to light a fire and get things moving, they don't want to deal with the whole issue. That's going to come up with that. So it can be a really powerful tool. I think my caveat with what to do if things aren't going well, also really depends on the environment that you're in. So for students, I think finding your allies in the building, the adult allies in the building, is hugely important. Starting with your counselor should be a safe place. I can't guarantee that that's always going to be a friendly face, but it should be, and I think let's, let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they're there. Their job is to advocate for you. So it's a good starting point to test the waters and see who your allies are. Start with the people in the building and talk with them and work within the systems that they have, oftentimes to. To be honest, I have found a lot of the adults also don't know that these are the rights. They don't they're not equipped with these tools and resources. So helping your allies in the building understand and asking them to work with you and do this together can be really powerful way to get some support. So one of the things that I worked on with my counseling team that made a huge difference for students is identifying the places within the school system that protected them. So what we realized is only the legal documents have to have a legal name. So what we found is we went through, we just created a Google doc of where are all the places that we use a student's name or other identifying information that isn't legal and then let's come up with a system to change it so your student ID, the yearbook, graduation programs, award ceremonies, like anything that you're putting a student name on is not a legal document. So it doesn't matter what the name is. Students can have whatever name they want. So yeah, really, the only legal document in a high school is going to be the high school transcript, and that's it. Nothing else is, I mean, your diploma. You can't show your diploma to get any credit or get into college. It doesn't mean anything. It's a pretty thing that your parents hang on their wall and convincing, sometimes the adults that that's not a legal document takes a second, but generally, we can get there. And it actually worked out for lots of students, not just trans students, because I had students who were legally named this, but they went by this. So if they're going to get up and receive an award in front of their friends. They want to be called by the name they're known as, and so just didn't take a lot to do that, things like a substitute roster, you might have gone through all this process, and the teachers on board were using the correct names. Everything's good. And then there's a substitute, and they're calling role, and first of all, the gender markers on the roster, why? There doesn't need to be a gender marker to take attendance. So we pulled that off. And then there was a field that parents could put that was the preferred name, and it didn't matter who it was, any parent could put any preferred name for any student, and that's the name that printed on the sub roster. So it can be hugely distracting when all of a sudden you're dead named, or you're misgendered in front of your classroom with kids. And so these were the places where it's just not that hard to make some changes. Sam Bergeron 17:38 Yeah, and I'm just gonna jump right in my experience with that particular thing in high school was, you know, ultimately, you're in school to learn and to feel comfortable and safe, right? It's really, really hard to stay focused in class when your teacher is calling you the wrong thing, not only because you're like, well, that's not me. That feels weird, but also because it feels sort of like a punch in the gut when you've made this really, really intense and difficult decision to come out to everybody in your world and say, I know you've known me as this one name for a long time, but you're going to need to change that. It feels like a really massive, yeah, like a punch in the gut. It hurts every single time you hear someone call you that wrong name or that dead name, a lot of students will you might hear them refer to that as their dead name, and it's especially uncomfortable when all of your peers around you are like, Well, what's that name? I don't know this person. They get confused. Then I'm feeling self conscious. I'm not able to focus. I'm not thinking about the classwork. I'm thinking about how uncomfortable I am in that moment. So it's a really, really easy change to not include legal names on rosters and things like that. It's an easy change for schools that makes such a massive difference for these students. And it's not just trans students. Someone has a nickname that they've been going by since they were five. Everyone knows them as this nickname. Everyone gets a little confused. If suddenly there's a different name being called out in class. It's just a weird moment. So it really is beneficial to all students to call them the name that they go by. So Ethan Sawyer 19:20 let's shift and talk to adults, to parents, caregivers, counselors. How can they support trans students better? Shannon Bergeron 19:28 I think from the counseling side, there's so many things that you can do within your school building, within your school district, within your system, if you are an affirming adult in the building, the priorities to keep you employed as an affirming adult in the building. So it is important to work within the system that you have, but figure out who the allies are among the adult community, particularly with the administration. Does. Leadership, there are always going to be some teachers and some adults in the building who are not necessarily allies, but it doesn't mean that they can't get on board with providing safe places for students to learn. So some of the things that I think some of the counselors can do are to create safe places and be visible. So as Sam mentioned earlier, having safe space stickers on the doors of anyone who's willing to put them up communicates to a whole group of kids. This is a place I can come and feel safe. Create those student groups, the Gay Straight Alliance, whatever you want to call it a Pride Alliance, let students leave that side note. I want to tell a story about how to get creative when a school that you're in maybe says, Nope, you cannot have a GSA. We can have a Fellowship of Christian Athletes, but we can't have a gay club, which did happen to me in a school I worked at. So I took a minute to take some breaths and regrouped, and went back to the principal and asked, Could I have a knitting club? And he said, Sure, happy to have a knitting club. Have a lot of avid knitter have a lot of knitting supplies, so just kind of spread the word that you know, we're gonna teach you some knitting, if you want, but also we're happy to talk about some gay issues, so if anybody wants to come, just come on in. So I think it's possible to get creative and be resourceful and still take care of the things that you need to do. I mean, it's unfortunate we shouldn't need to do that, but I think in that moment and in that situation, you also have to choose what Hillary were willing to die on, and I just didn't feel like that was where I was going to go with that particular school and that particular principal. And I thought, here's a way to do this. We're still getting what we need and making a difference, and that's what we did. Sam Bergeron 21:54 Yeah. So one of the ways that I found safe spaces in my high school was, you know, firstly, Shannon, who is my mom, was working at the school that I went to as the lead guidance counselor, and so I already had a safe space. I knew I could go to her office when I needed to, but a vast majority of trans students don't have that automatically. So, you know, we had the pride alliance club at our school as well, and that was an additional safe space for me. I was surrounded by other students going through similar things, and we were talking sort of heavily about the issues we were facing and how we're getting through them, talking about coping mechanisms and ways to fight for each other and ways to find happiness even When Everything Feels like it sucks. But there were also staff and faculty sponsors for that group, and so I had a group of adults in the building that I knew, I knew I could always go and talk to them about gender issues or or queerness issues, and that was so, so, so important to me. So you know, some of our other ideas of ways that, as a counselor, you could create additional safe spaces in your school, you know, in a counseling office, if there's a little room that no one's using, I really like the idea of creating basically a panic room, a space where if a student is in crisis in the middle of the school day, maybe they're feeling suicidal, or they're they're feeling, you know, an urge to self harm, or they're just in a really dangerous place. They have a space they can go to get out of class, not just to get out of class, but to go and cry or scream or do some grounding activities in a quiet and safe and calm space. Because there are a lot of times where if, if a student isn't safe at home in their gender identity, if they don't have a supportive family, even if their friends aren't safe to be around like there, they have to have some place in their life that is safe with them. You can't go through your entire life without a single sort of haven of comfort. So as a counselor, if you're working in one of these buildings and you're seeing students, seeing students go through this experience, you know you can literally build that space for them and inevitably change their life a little bit by giving them not only physical space, but emotional space to do the processing that they need to do. So Shannon Bergeron 24:17 one of the things the counseling staff probably needs to think about is counseling services specifically for trans students. Most people are not specifically trained on this in graduate school. I wasn't, I didn't know anything about it, and I've had to go and learn on my own, and it's made a huge difference. So it is worth the effort. Get training, get professional development, find somebody in your area and come train your staff. Have at least one person, even though, ideally, everyone on staff is trained on how to deal with some of these issues, but particularly within crisis and mental health. And some of these grounding techniques can be really helpful for these these students. Sam Bergeron 24:58 I also want to say. That as as counselors, one of the things that you can really do to advocate for these students is ensure safety in the inherently gendered spaces on your campus. So there should be very few gendered spaces on campus, but often that's bathrooms and locker rooms, right? Even sometimes in gym class, you're separated into the boys and the girls. Firstly, my personal opinion is that gym class shouldn't be separated that way, but in spaces where you do feel that you have to separate by gender, like in bathrooms and locker rooms, you need to make sure that your students are able to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that they feel most comfortable in, and that they are safe doing so whether that's safe from harassment and bullying, safe from reprimanding principals or administrators, safe in all ways. So I mean, if you think about it, everyone has to use the restroom at some point during the school day. You're there seven or eight hours a day. And I've known so so many trans students who, out of fear of using the restroom and being bullied or, you know, mocked, they just don't go. They absolutely refuse to use any bathroom that's in a school building. And frankly, that's really dangerous for their bodies, plus it just sucks. It's uncomfortable. You're unable to stay focused in class. It's really unpleasant. So you really want to make sure that whatever the student is most comfortable in you can advocate for them to use the spaces that are that are comfortable for them, and part of that is creating a gender neutral bathroom space. So one of the things that we did, that I did, with the help of my mom in high school, was creating a gender neutral bathroom. We took some staff, single stall staff bathrooms that were formerly only for staff, and we've made gender neutral signs for them. And that way students who don't feel comfortable in any gendered restroom, like non binary, students who feel uncomfortable in both a men's and a women's room, they still have a safe space to go and just do their business, move on with their day and stay focused in class. So that's a really important thing as well. Shannon Bergeron 27:08 To be clear, we did not build any restrooms. We used existing things in the facilities. I can hear people thinking, you create a bathroom so we don't have money for that. Here's what I'll say, though, there are single stall restrooms, I guarantee you, in your building, probably you don't know about it, there are coaches and principals and nurses with single stall bathrooms. I promise you they're in your building. Find them give access to the kids who need those to those restrooms. That was, that was a big one. And there were a couple of teachers at the beginning saying, like, I don't want students using the soft restroom. And we're like, this is going to be good for everybody, and we just need you to be on board with this. And then after, you know, two weeks, it was fine. Shannon, Ethan Sawyer 28:00 you've been talking about, you know, stuff that counselors can do specifically. I'd love for you to share from your perspective as a parent, who's, you know, whose child transitioned, what was this like for you? And what advice would you give to other parents who might have a kid who's transitioning? Shannon Bergeron 28:17 Great question. Thanks. Ethan, I think it was super difficult for us going through the process. I went through my own journey. My husband went through his own journey, and we kind of did it together and separately. And I didn't know anybody else at the time who had a child who's going through it that I felt like I could call or talk to or lean on. And I really felt like I needed that. I was struggling with grief and loss, and that surprised me. I wasn't expecting that, and I'm trying to be strong for Sam and do everything right, but also I was sort of needing to take my own mask off sometimes and just kind of fall apart. And I I've had to lean on people, which is hard sometimes to do anyway. And I found, I found some community, and I have some wonderful friends and some wonderful counselor friends, and thankfully, they were those people for me. They kind of did the research and figured out like they weren't parents going through it, but they helped me with what I needed, and they knew me well, and they helped me navigate it and be where I needed to be emotionally, which was kind of terrifying for a while. And I think about how much I work with these kids every day. This is my work, and this just threw me in a way that I can't even explain. So what I would say to parents who are going through this and your child comes out to you, it doesn't matter how close you are, how much you love each other and spend every minute together, it will shake you and. You're going to need a minute, and you're going to have to find your own support that is not your child. I can't emphasize that enough. You cannot lean on them. They need their own support. Your job as a parent to get that elsewhere. So give a therapist whatever you need to do. I'll say that at the school that I worked at and Sam went to, I've given them permission to share my name with any parent who's going through this, and I've had a number of parents reach out, and you just having somebody to talk to and validate that this feels like grief and loss, because it is, is huge. So find that community, find that support. Don't be afraid to reach out. You will need it. Need it. Need it because you need to have it together, and you need to fill your own cup so that you can then be there for your kids. I also want to say Sam Bergeron 30:57 it was really, really important to me that my parents didn't do their processing in front of me after I came out, because it was hard enough to come out and feel like I was totally changing their life because I felt guilty about that. I knew that it was going to be emotionally difficult for the entire family, and my guilt would have been so much worse had I seen their struggle in front of my eyes. So I really appreciated that both of my parents intentionally did that sort of behind closed doors. They did their own processing. They figured it out. They found community in other people without necessarily letting me in on that or forcing me to feel like it was my responsibility to guide them through it, or teach them or educate them. So from my perspective, it's hugely important that you do this processing on your own and let your child do their own processing separately. Shannon Bergeron 31:52 If you need somebody to talk to, whether you're a parent or a teenager, there's a resource in the resource list called ally parents. This is a group of caring adults been trained, and you can text or email and just know there's a supportive person on the other end who understands and is willing to chat with you at any time. You can even choose them by the state that you're in. Find somebody in your state. Ethan Sawyer 32:16 One of the things that y'all both mentioned earlier was the notion of grounding techniques. And I wonder if either of you be willing to share an example of a grounding technique that's been useful. Sam Bergeron 32:26 So when you're feeling really in your head about the struggles that you're having, you're thinking really heavily and sort of ruminating on what sucks in your life. Grounding techniques are really helpful for bringing you back to the ground, bringing you back into your body. So some things are my favorite, personally, is temperature. So if you go to the bathroom and run the sink at really, really cold, or even put some ice water in the sink and then stick your hands in it for as long as you can stand it, it's not harming you at all. It's just cold water. In fact, cold has been proven to be pretty good for you, but it starts to bring you back into the physical sensations of your body, so that you can sort of start to pull yourself out of that emotional distress and that feeling of, you know, emergency, that everything sucks and you just can't do it anymore. So, so that's one way. Other ways could include exercise. I know it kind of sucks to hear that, but it actually does help. It brings you back into your body in that same way, because you're focusing more on your breathing, even the classic breathing techniques that you can do, like, you know, breathe in for four, hold for three, out for seven those are some great breathing exercises that start to bring you back into your body. But like I said, my favorite is something that's even a little bit more extreme than that. So getting your hands cold to the point where it kind of hurts a little bit, it's a really healthy and and grounding way to sort of start to move past that emotional distress. Shannon Bergeron 34:00 Love that. I also love when kids can really get their heart rate up, and you can do it quickly wherever you are, whether you want to just do some jumping jacks or squats or something to get your heart rate up like you can't help because the blood and oxygen now moves to a different part of your body, so you're sort of forced to kind of regroup. That's another thing that can be really helpful. You know, in a in a school or taking a walk, I used to go, Hey, let's, let's walk and talk, versus just sitting there and just being outside, using your senses, you know, trying to be mindful and and grounding. Can that can be helpful too. Ethan Sawyer 34:38 Sam, one thing I sense that you're good at, because you've already been doing it in this conversation, is sharing impact. I'm curious what your experiences have been. Maybe you can give us some advice on how to share impact in a way that will land for folks like what seems to work pretty well when sharing how someone has affected you and what seems to work maybe less well. Yeah. Sam Bergeron 34:58 So I think, um. So, you know, ultimately, getting Getting Personal With it is the best way that I found that people react. You know, I think there are lots of people out there who maybe don't, quote, believe in the trans existence or the trans identity, but when they meet someone, especially if it's someone that they already know and maybe even like that can make a huge difference. You know, I've even had family members who were really, really not on board, and were even posting hateful things online about trans people before I came out. And then once I came out, they rethought it. They thought, Oh, someone I love is going through something that I now know about, and I'm going to rethink my stance on this when it comes to teachers, the best way to sort of approach that and say, Hey, this thing that you're doing, or this thing that you're saying regularly is hurting me in this way, I would never come into it from a place of like malice, Feeling like you as a teacher are a terrible teacher for doing this. I'm really, you know, angry or even hateful about it. I don't do that because I try to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're trying your best, even teachers who don't get it care about their students. And so if a teacher is misgendering me or dead naming me, but they're trying. Generally, I don't even bring it up because they're trying, and that's ultimately what matters most to me. Those are not the people that are hurting me intentionally or hurting me the most, even. So I try to be honest about it and be realistic with my expectations from these adults, especially since some of this is generational. You know, I grew up with the age of the internet, hearing these terms and knowing what gender identity was all about at a really young age. I know that that's a privilege that I have, that not everybody has, and so I try to expect too much of the adults in my life. And, you know, be realistic with that, but when it comes to talking about the ways that their words have impacted me, you know, I try to be really forthcoming and honest, but also kind about it, because that's really how people respond the best is when they don't feel attacked. Because if they do feel attacked, they're going to get defensive and likely dig their heels in even more with that original belief, Shannon Bergeron 37:19 another thing that counselors might struggle with a little bit and can do is having some conversation starters with teachers who maybe not 100% on board. So if you have a teacher that you're working with who says, I don't want to call that student by this name instead of that name, or this gender instead of that gender, that pronoun, because I don't believe in it, so I don't want to do it. A great conversation starter with that teacher. Can be in a calm way. You know, outside of class, can we agree that we want the student to learn in your classroom? Yes. Can we agree that we want the student to feel safe while in your classroom? Yes, the answer is not yes. That's a different conversation. And teachers really can get here any adult, I feel like anybody can get here. When you really talk about you're going to have students in your room who are not the same as you in a lot of different ways, and that's okay. That's not the point. If you go back to what is your core job and what you need to do, and like your belief system doesn't need to be part of that. It really gives teachers a space, or other adults the space to go. I don't have to change who I am, and I can still help the student feel safe and learn, which is what I'm here to do. That's my job. And I think certainly, if you're working in a public school, you're you're going to have many students with many things that you know, you don't believe, with and and that's okay. You can still teach them. They can still learn. They can be safe. Everyone can go home at the end of the day, and it's a win. And really just haven't found once you have a thoughtful, meaningful conversation with the teacher, that they're not on board with that. I've just never met a teacher who just doesn't care about kids in general, and I think coming back to finding that common ground is a great way to approach it, and it also feels less confrontational. Ethan Sawyer 39:25 Thank you. First of all, one of the things that I want to do in the show notes is put a list of some of these terms, so that folks who are just, you know, learning about trans youth can become more familiar with I wonder if you could highlight a few that you feel like are especially important for folks who are listening? Sam Bergeron 39:40 Yes, absolutely. So I'll start with some of the things we've said so far. So a dead name refers to, typically, a birth name, a name that was given to someone at birth that they no longer go by. This is a colloquial term a lot of trans folks use to signify that that version of me no longer exists. May. Misgendering is the act of using the wrong pronoun for somebody. So you know, when I changed my pronouns to he, him, I still got called she, but also I got called Miss or ma'am, or I would get lumped in with, quote, ladies, if we were being split up in class by gender, those things are misgendering, and it feels really, really bad. And then some of the other things, you know, the word cisgender. We haven't said it much here so far, but you may hear that cisgender just refers to somebody who still identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth. So you know, my mom, for example, assigned female at birth, still identifies as a woman, she's cisgender, anyone who does not identify with that gender assigned at birth would be considered under the trans umbrella, although some people have different opinions about that, depending on how their personal experience with gender has looked. And then there's also, I want to describe quickly, the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation. So these things sort of get lumped in together as part of the LGBTQ experience. Sexual orientation is when you're referring to someone as a homosexual, or, you know, gay or lesbian or bisexual or asexual, that refers to attraction the kind of other people that you might want to have relationships with specifically, typically romantic or sexual relationships. Gender identity is not at all tied to that. So a lot of people assume, Oh, you, you know, quote, became trans, which also means you became gay or something like that. They're not tied to each other at all. So for me, I've always been attracted to men, so for a while, identified as a straight woman, and then now I identify as a queer man, because I am still attracted to men. That has not changed at all, but the way that I come into that experience has changed because my gender identity has changed. So I just wanted to talk a little bit about that difference, because that gets misconstrued quite a bit. Shannon Bergeron 42:01 I'd love to share a little bit more about impact. Follow up with Sam said, one of the things that I've noticed is when people are talking about a particular issue, it's this sort of out there, esoteric issue. We're talking about all LGBTQ plus people, or all gay people are. We're talking about gay marriage. It's just this idea. And all of a sudden, when you bring a personal connection into it, it changes everything. So people think I don't. I've never met a trans person. And I'm like, well, actually, you have, you just don't know it. And when people meet Sam, partially because Sam's an amazing human being, I might be a little biased. They love him. I mean, literally everyone who knows Sam and meets him loves this person. And so then they think, Oh, I like Sam. So actually, now I'm, I'm okay with if Sam needs this, I want that to happen, which is really different than this law or whatever. So I think making it personal and going, Hey, this is a real person we're talking to and talking about can make a huge impact. When we were in Dallas presenting at the attack act conference, and we were nervous, not gonna lie, we were a little terrified. We're in person, we're in this room. We didn't know if it'd be friendly or not, and we're just putting it all out there. And, and I've been a lot of conferences and a lot of sessions, and people bolt at the end of those things, or they're on their phone, or, you know how that goes. First of all, every eye was like glued when Sam was talking, nobody was looking at their phone. And I have never seen probably 50% of the people in the room stay after and come up and want to talk to him and just say how much his story meant to them. And that was so moving and personal. And I just that was such a great example of impact. Lovely. Ethan Sawyer 43:55 Thanks for sharing that. I love seeing your smile. I wish folks could see just like the impact of you sharing that impact. So Sam, talk to me a little bit about the search for college process. Like, is that different for trans students? Like, tell me maybe a little bit about your experience. Sam Bergeron 44:13 For me, when I was first starting to research colleges, I literally typed into the Google search bar, you know, trans friendly colleges in the United States. And I found a list from some website that had, I think, 10 different schools in the US that were well known for being friendly to trans students. That was where I started. And it was a little difficult for me to find the intersection between a college that was going to be really safe for me as a trans person, but also a college that I really wanted to go to for their academic program, or for some other reason. Ultimately, I ended up getting really lucky. The school that I chose to go to I had seen at a college fair for colleges that change lives, back when I was in eighth. Grade, because my mom, being a high school counselor, essentially dragged me to this fair when I was in eighth grade, and I went and talked to the rep for Hampshire College, and they had said, we're a really small school. We're very liberal arts focused. It's very non traditional and free in the curriculum, and also we don't have grades. And I was like, sold. So then later, when I was doing my college search and Hampshire came up on that list of schools that were friendly for trans students, I thought, oh my gosh, this is perfect. So I did a little bit more research about the schools on my list and made sure that you know, current and former students were also saying that it was truly a friendly and safe space to be I tried to get, I actually did get in contact with some current students and chatted with them about what their experience was when I was doing my my campus visits. And that's really what sold it to me, was talking to the current students and seeing what the actual vibe of the community was like. So that's that's my advice for when you're searching for colleges, talk to people Googling and looking at the websites of the colleges. Is that is a really important first step, but you're not going to get all the information that way, because what's on the website is going to be really curated by the marketing team of the college. And you really want to get the the nitty gritty of what it's actually like in the day to day. So that's what I did. The other cool thing is that the campus pride index has, you know, so many resources for finding schools that are going to be safe for you. A little side note as well, when looking at colleges that would not only be safe, but like sort of celebrate you as a queer person. The Campus pride index has a list of 151 colleges where their student health insurance plan actually covers 100% of transition costs, or at least cover some of transition costs. So there are, you know, over 100 schools in the US where, if you attend the school and you decide to sign up for their student health insurance, they will cover your transition. My roommate, when I was in college, had top surgery, completely covered, 100% covered by our colleges health insurance. So that's a really cool thing as well, because especially for students who don't have family support, don't feel like they can afford to get these medical services on their own, there are other options for you, especially once you turn 18 and have full legal control over your your medical choices. So those are just some things to think about when you're when you're in that college search process. Another thing to think about when you're doing your college search is you're not just looking for a college. You're looking at a new place you're going to live for at, you know, around four years. So think about the state that you're considering moving to, you know, the most supportive school in the world can't help you with everything if there are state laws that prohibit you from transitioning or from doing certain things or from finding appropriate health care. So do some research about the legislation in the states that you're considering moving to do some research about the safest states that you could possibly move to, especially if you're living in currently in a state that's not very safe for you. And even beyond that, look at other resources in the area outside of the school. So medical resources, because you're going to have to find a doctor or a therapist or a psychiatrist if you want to start your transition in college, so you want to make sure that there are providers in that area that will be able to help you and support you in a kind and supportive way and caring way. But even, you know, social groups for for LGBTQ folks, you know, what does the local Pride Parade look like every year? Is it big? Is there a big community? Those are the kinds of things you want to look at when you're searching for a school. Because, like I said, it's not just the school. You're moving to a new place, and you really want to think about all those different pieces of it. Shannon, what would you add to Ethan Sawyer 49:07 this? Well, the Shannon Bergeron 49:08 campus pride index also has some good resources on LGBTQ specific college fairs. These are resources that you know are more recent for students that didn't exist, you know, 1015, years ago. So there are more opportunities for students to explore this than there have been Ethan Sawyer 49:26 lovely. Quick side note for those listening, there's a whole separate episode with Shane windmire podcast episode from a few years ago that's on campus pride. Shane started campus pride, and it's got great questions to ask when visiting campuses. It's got a link to the campus pride, trans policy clearing house. It's got information on how to find scholarships. And we've also got, and we'll put this in the show notes, a link to 50 plus more resources. Let's talk essays for a few minutes. I'd love to hear about your experience Sam, writing your college essays at. And then I'd love to hear from you, Shannon, and how you advise students when they're trying to wrestle with this question of like, do I write about trans identity or not? So Sam, maybe you first? Sam Bergeron 50:09 Yeah, definitely. So I wrote my common app personal statement about my gender journey, specifically about my fundraising for my own surgery. So even though I had full parental support, we had basically made the decisions that I would pay for it myself as a way to basically learn how to be an adult and learn how to fundraise for myself, which I absolutely appreciate, and was a great lesson for me. But so that's what I wrote my essay about. I felt really strongly that that was a really important part of who I was at that time in my life. It was taking up a vast majority of my mental energy and physical energy and emotional energy. And I had been told, you know, the thing you should write about in your personal statement is the thing that is the most important to you in your life. And so that's what I wrote about. What's interesting now is that I am able to go back and read my entire application because I work at the college that I went to, and I realized recently, when I went back through and read the entire application, that of the seven different things I submitted, six of them were largely about my transition and my gender journey, even my recommendation letters, every single one of My rec letters talked about it, and for me, in reading it now, I kind of came across as one sided. It came across that that was the only thing in my life. So my advice now that I wouldn't have even thought of when I was applying originally, is, if it is such a huge part of your life that you want to write your common app essay, your main personal statement about it fantastic, but intentionally choose other parts of your life to write about in your other shorter statements or short answers, because you don't want to come across as, you know, single faceted. You want to come across as the vibrant and multifaceted and, you know, complex person that you are, because every single one of us has a really complex identity and all these different pieces that work together to make us who we are, right? So I really recommend figuring out what other pieces of your life you really care about and making sure to emphasize those just as much as your gender identity, because while that may be a big part of your life right now, and may continue to be a big part of your life. I highly doubt it's the only part of your life that matters to you, and that's what you want to get across to your readers, because most college admissions counselors also are looking really holistically at who you are overall, not you know that one single piece of you. Thank Ethan Sawyer 52:41 you. Sam Shannon, what would you add to that? Shannon Bergeron 52:46 I think the answer is the same answer as to most questions related to college admissions. And that is, it depends. There are times when it makes sense to for students to talk about it, and there are times when it doesn't. And the first question is, when students are out. First of all, I really cherish that information, and I carry that carefully with them, and I it's such a privilege when people share that with me, and we talk about, how much of that do you want to share your application, and where does it make sense for that to be? And also, are you out to your parents? And are your parents going to read your essay? So there's some basic logistics of who knows and who might know, and is this safe for you? And assuming that the answer is yes, what I find is, for the most part, students are not if they're writing about it in their essay, it's a piece of that essay. But it's not the whole essay. There might be a little reference to something, or they might kind of drop in about their identity, but, but interestingly, so many students struggle with what identity even means to them, the kind of struggle of it's not just the things that you do, but just who you are and and so it kind of depends on the depth of reflection that a student has a maturity and not everybody's able to articulate that they're not far enough away from it to articulate it in an essay. Yet I think Sam is kind of an old soul anyway, and was way more of a grown up, even at age four than most people. So he had the ability to reflect and think about that in a way that I think, honestly, a lot of teenagers just don't. They're just not ready for that yet. Yeah. So Sam Bergeron 54:31 I think it comes down to, you know, if you're this student, if you're trying to figure out, should I come out of my essay or not? You know, yeah, think about those other pieces of your identity. Think about, is this something that I want to be a piece of what the admissions counselors know about me? Because ultimately, they don't, likely, they don't know anything about you other than what you put in that application. So you really want to think about, what is it that I want them to know about me? Do I want them to take into account that I've really, really struggled with this thing, but persevered through? It, or have I not struggled that much, and it feels like a small piece of me that doesn't affect my academic work? Does it not feel relevant? So it really depends on what your experience has been with that gender journey, and how you want that to come across. For those Ethan Sawyer 55:16 of you who are listening and wondering, how do I even figure out what my other identities are on the other sides of me. We'll put in the show notes, a link to two different exercises that you can do. One is specifically on identities. And then there's another one that'll just it's a YouTube video that'll help you as a student who's listening, think about what are the different sides of me that I could potentially show and then we've got a separate blog post that's called, should I come out in my personal statement? That's part one. And then part two is like examples of other students who have talked about, you know, LGBTQ identity in different ways. I just want to underscore and say yes, yes, yes. There are so many different ways to do this, and you'll see more in those blog posts. So let's talk resources for a second, for folks who are listening, whether it's students, you know, parents, caregivers, counselors, what resources would you point folks to? So Shannon Bergeron 56:06 we've curated a list of all of the resources that we've used. You know that I've collected in my toolbox as a counselor, and that you know, through our work together, we've put together so we have great information for students, parents, counselors from Human Rights Campaign, National Center for Transgender Equality, etc. So we have them all in one place, so we're happy to link those and share with everybody. Ethan Sawyer 56:32 Lovely as we close here, what would you like folks to take away? What would you like folks to remember? I think the Shannon Bergeron 56:39 thing that I would like, particularly counselors, I think, to take away is this is hard work sometimes, and important work, and it's very fulfilling. And when you make that connection with students, and you kind of figure out the things to help and it works, it's an amazing feeling. And so my challenge to you is to take this information and then teach another person. Sam Bergeron 57:06 My advice, I think, is really for parents, actually for parents of trans students who you know, if these parents are maybe struggling with understanding what's going on with their kid or figuring out how best to support them, my best advice is listen to the trans people in media and in your life, hear what they're saying and really take it to heart. That could be, you know, looking up trans celebrities and seeing what they're saying about their gender journey. It could be, you know, watching movies or reading books, you know, even specifically like autobiographies of trans folks who are writing about that experience. Elliot page just came out with a book, a memoir about his life that's I haven't read it yet, but I've heard really great things, and that's one of those resources that you really want to hear it right from the source. When you're doing research and trying to figure out what all this means and how this affects your life, look at as many resources as physically possible, because it is so, so important to get that nuanced and varied perspective. Because every trans person has a different experience of gender and the trans experience, just as every human has a different life experience, we are all different in our transition. And I think it's really, really important to see the different ways that that can show up for people and the different ways that you can support your kid as a parent. And ultimately, bottom line, listen to your kid ask them what's going on. Try your darndest to be that force of comfort in their life so that they feel safe talking to you honestly. One of the things I really appreciated when I was going through this as a teenager was that as scared as I was to come out, I never once thought that anything I could say to my parents would make them love me less. And that is all due to my parents, you know, teaching me from day one that there was nothing I could say that would make them love me less. So really try to be that for your kid, if you're not already, and show up for them in ways that they need. Ask them what it is that they need, and really take that to heart and do what is, whatever it is that they need, even if it sounds weird to you or if it's not something you did as a kid, that's really the best way to show up for these people and to really make a difference in the lives of trans youth. Ethan Sawyer 59:23 Sam Shannon, thank you so much. Thank Sam Bergeron 59:25 you. Was a pleasure. Hi Ethan Sawyer 59:28 friends. Thanks ever for listening at college essay guide.com/podcast you'll find the show notes for this episode, including a link to some of the grounding techniques resources that Shannon and Sam described, you'll also find a blog that she and Sam wrote called 10 critical things trans youth their counselors and caregivers should know in high school and when applying to college. And you'll find a link to a spreadsheet with more than 50 resources for LGBTQ plus students. It's pretty comprehensive. It's something that I put together with some COVID. Colleagues for a session at the national conference a couple years ago. If you're not on our email list, we'd love to have you just go to college. Sa guy.com and opt into any of the free resources we've got. We're releasing new resources all the time. In fact, I think we released 10 last week, and that's the best place to learn what's coming up in our world. Talk to you soon, and as ever, stay curious. You. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
