116: Who is Tutor Ted? (and Resources for Brainstorming a Personal Statement)

Ethan Sawyer  0:08  
Music, Hello, ladies and gentlemen and gentle people. This is Ethan Sawyer, the College Essay Guy bringing you more ease, joy and purpose into the college application process. This is the podcast where I interview folks from all parts of the college admissions world, friends, old friends, new friends, and hopefully future friends. And basically try and figure out, how can I make this process easier for you, the listener, whether you're applying to college yourself or helping someone else apply. So this is the first of two podcasts with Ted Dorsey, who's also known as tutor Ted. And this is a guy who scored perfect scores on the A C T, the s, a T, the P, S, a T, and he runs a really cool test prep company called What else tutor Ted. Now in the second part of this episode, you're listening to part one right now. In the second part, he's going to walk you through how to improve your a c t score by two points in 20 minutes for real. But before we get to that, I thought it'd be really neat to first get to know the man behind the tutor Ted moniker. And what better way to do that, I thought, than to actually guide him through some of the exercises that I use with my actual students when I'm helping them find their topics for their personal statement. And I chose to use this method because, honestly, I don't know of a faster way to get to know somebody in a deep way. So how does that break down? Well, first, we'll start with what I call vulnerability training, and you'll see why in a second. And then I walk him through a distilled version of my essence, objects and values, exercise, which I talked about on podcast episode number 111 or which you can find on my website. And then I take him through my favorite exercise ever, which is called the feelings and needs exercise. Also, it's been known as the 20 minute therapy exercise. Why am I doing this? Two reasons. One, I just wanted you to get to know Ted on a you know, like, who he is before you hear him teaching you. But secondly, I wanted to kind of give a sneak peek into, like, how do I approach this process with students, and I thought this would be a really cool way of doing both at the same time. I'll say more about part two. That's the practical part, improving your A, C, T score at the beginning of that episode. But for now, enjoy part one of this two part episode with Ted. Dorsey. Ted, welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, so and nervous to be here. Good, that good, because I just pitched to Ted what I'm actually inviting him into, and he didn't know this because I didn't know this. But let me set the scene for us. Ted has so much knowledge. He's been teaching test prep for how many years?


Amie Dorsey  2:37  
Well, since 2000 was when I first got started and full time since 2003


Ethan Sawyer  2:41  
17 years worth of knowledge. And what, one of my favorite things about your work is how practical it is, and how, you know, how, how easy it is to go, oh, I learned that I can actually apply that like right away. But there's also some deep stuff that you've got, and sure, before we get into the practical, because, you know, if folks have listened to the podcast before, they know I'm into the practical. But I wanted to, I wanted y'all to just get to know Ted a little bit on a human level. And so this will be kind of a two part podcast, where Part one is about getting to know Ted, but in this very particular way that I'll explain in a second, and then part two is going to be the practical. You know, here are some tips that you can use in order to improve I'll explain that when we get to it. But in terms of just getting to know Ted, here's what I thought. And I just pitched this to him, literally five minutes ago.


Amie Dorsey  3:27  
It's actually live on the on my podcast, so if you want to hear my honest response, you can listen to that.


Ethan Sawyer  3:33  
Yeah, we've just recorded a podcast for him where he's interviewing me. And I realized, like, midway through, I was like, Oh, this would be cool. And he's like, Okay, so here's the pitch, here's what I pitched him, and he's, here's what he said he's down to do. Is I'm basically gonna walk Ted through three exercises, three simple exercises that anybody can do that will help you get to know somebody faster. So this is, in part, me just wanting to connect with Ted and getting to know him better, live in front of you. And part of what these exercises do is, is they work to inspire discoveries, like live discoveries. So that's really part of what I'm trying to do, is just get to know him better. But two, you'll also get a chance to see how the essay process works, and if you're you know, listening along at home and taking notes, you can go through these exercises yourself and maybe learn something about yourself. So I've asked Ted if, and I'll ask you again, Ted now on my podcast, are you down to do some, like, college essay exercises with me? I


Amie Dorsey  4:28  
think it'll be great. I think it'll be interesting. I mean, I feel like it's going to be sort of a therapy session for the public, but I'm into it. I'm into it. Yeah, I'm game.


Ethan Sawyer  4:36  
In the spirit of just sort of warming up, because it can be tough to just kind of dive right in. I wanted to play a little one minute game called I Love. And the way this game goes is, and actually, I'll just go first, and I'm just going to make a list of stuff that I love, yeah, and it's going to take a minute, and then I'll do it, and then I'll let you go. So. So, so I'm setting a minute timer on my phone, and here goes. I love air conditioning. I love walking barefoot through my house. I love mint chocolate chip ice cream. I love connecting with somebody. I love big questions. I love scary questions. I love I love having clean hands. I love my grandmother's hands. I love the smell of the air, the mountain air in North Carolina, where my grandmother lives. I love going on a plane. I love stepping on that like the jet way between the airport and the plane. I love when the Wi Fi on the plane works. I love Louis CK jokes about Wi Fi on the plane and how we've become so accustomed to that. I love laughing. I love deep belly laughs That make me cry. I love, you know, crying when I'm laughing. I love good, long conversations with friends that you know, where we just totally lose track of time. I love losing track of time. I love speaking of losing track of time. Boom, yeah, there it is. That's great. So the only rule for this is to just when you run out of stuff, to say, just keep going. Yeah. Okay, so just so free writing. Free writing. Stream of consciousness. One minute, Ted. What do you love okay,


Amie Dorsey  6:21  
I definitely love baseball. I love the Dodgers. I love the color blue. I love the color green. I love beautiful eyes. I love smiles. I love smiling from the eyes. I love connecting with strangers via the eyes. I love Walks. I love getting just tired enough that I sleep really well at night. I love a cool breeze when I'm sleeping. I love a cool breeze and a warm human when I'm sleeping. I love I love the sleeping in the morning. I love picking up a book in the morning. First thing, I love thinking about writing and having fun ideas. I love jokes. I love


Ethan Sawyer  7:21  
awesome so that's


Amie Dorsey  7:24  
an improv game. Hi. How did that go? I felt pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I probably, I mean, yeah, it was good. I want another shot at it, but no, that was good. So that's


Ethan Sawyer  7:32  
what we learned, is that, you know, yeah. So, you know, in part, I'm just learning, I'm just sort of seeing collage of of you, and I use this when I'm starting off either a workshop or one on one student, just to kind of get the collage of you and just to get things flowing a little bit free writing, like you said, we're just kind of free writing live. And the next exercise that I like, and this is, again, a really short one, but it involves the prompt, if you really knew me, and I'll go first again. And it basically just involves sharing something with you that feels personal, that feels like, you know, I'm basically thinking of it as a potluck, and I'm, this is my dish, and here's what I'm trying to bring some part of myself when I run out of something to say, I'm gonna ask myself the question, so what? And see if I can go just a little bit deeper. And the purpose of this exercise is just to allow myself to be known by you. Okay, okay, so Ted, if you really knew me, and I'm gonna pause for a second because I haven't planned this out, if you really knew me, you would know that I sometimes talk too fast. And so what I think this has something to do with just being an enthusiastic, passionate person, but I think there's a darker side to it, where there's, like, a not enoughness, like worried that there's not enough space for me, or something in the world which is crazy, which I have no reason to believe intellectually, but there's just this part of me that wonders, why can't I just slow down and just be so Okay, so what? So what? So I'm noticing I'm judging myself for that, and I'm noticing this is connected to, like my inner critic voice, which, which in some ways really serves me, in which some ways holds me back. So what? So, I don't know, sharing this with you, I feel a little bit more at ease. I feel and I see you. I saw you nodding. So I'm feeling a little more connected to you, because I'm making up that you have an inner critic as well. You're laughing, so I'm making you making up that that's that's true. So what? So I don't know. I guess I'd like to give a little gratitude to my inner critic this morning for helping me get so much done and helping me talk so fast, even though I sometimes judge myself for doing so. Can I steal the inner critic from mine? No, you can't. You have to come up. What else is there? I'm kidding, yeah. So do whatever you want, but basically, just begin with the prompt. If you really knew me. And then what ask yourself, so what a few times and see what you can discover lives.


Amie Dorsey  10:07  
Okay, this is so much heavier than I was expecting. I gotta be honest, let's see. Ethan, if you really knew me, you would see that every decision I make, I make with an extreme level of vetting, that nothing, not one thing I do is sort of casual, even when I sort of mean it to be, even when I know it should be casual. So what I, I think it's sometimes that can be sort of not quite paralyzing. I mean, well, I mean, at worst, it can get to that level, you know, where it's like decision paralysis, essentially, because, you know, every little decision has to get, you know, vetted. The extreme, when I say every decision, I literally mean, like picking the kind of tea I want to have, or, you know, what food I'm going to have at the hot bar at Whole Foods for lunch. So, so what I think that it's, it's, you know, you could say it's a blessing and a curse, but it's just a part of who I am that I make. I want to make really careful decisions. When I was writing more I would actually, this is not as much of a problem as it used to be, when I was a younger writer, I wouldn't write anything until it was great, you know. So, like, basically, you know, my writing partner would write 15 pages of which one was good. I would write one page of which one was good. And it took a lot of pain and agony and staring up at the ceiling to get to that one page, because, you know, most of the time was spent in action. So, yeah, so I think I'm a fraught decision maker. And it is, it is who I am. I mean, I think, you know, we're talking about inner critic, and I think that's that applies here too, where there's just a sense of of judgment, of evaluation, that's really quick and easy, and I apply it to myself with, you know, reckless abandon, basically. So


Ethan Sawyer  12:10  
is that how to do? Yeah, great, Mike, can I so watch you just share a particular way, you know what? I'll just do it theoretically, because I don't I think you've done a beautiful job. And not that it's my job to say, like, did you do it right or wrong? But, and by


Amie Dorsey  12:24  
the way, you don't have to, you don't have to sugarcoat anything. Be nice to me, you know, I'm ready for any feedback. I really am.


Ethan Sawyer  12:31  
Well, I realized just as we were talking, I was going to ask you a question that you'd already answered, which was, and this is a counseling question, right? Like, what is the how has that served you? And you've answered that, which is, you know, it's, you've created some great stuff, and you've created some great work, and then what has been the cost of that, right? And you mentioned how it can sometimes be paralyzing,


Amie Dorsey  12:50  
yeah. I mean, it slows things down to some extent, you know. I mean, I think, yeah. I mean, it gets really kind of rich in there, because, you know, I Okay, so this this week, I was reading the Princeton alumni weekly, which actually comes out every month, which is confusing, but I was reading about all the other, you know, Princeton alums, and everyone who's featured in the magazine has just written a book, or, you know, is just appointed, you know, to some high position and and I was the I was comparing all of them to me and thinking about how, you know, accomplished they are, and how, like, what a loser I am, and, you know, I haven't done anything. And that's the kind of the downside is that there's this, you know, high, high filter for, you know, anything I do, being of value because of that high critical voice. So that that kind of is the downside when I'm able to be a little bit more sun shiny, which, you know, 15% of the time I am, I'm able to say, like, you know what? Actually, I do some really cool stuff too. So that's kind of the challenge that's built into that, I think for me,


Ethan Sawyer  13:54  
yeah and yeah, great. I'm gonna move on to another exercise, great, just to segue. So one exercise that I really love to start with students, after we've done a little warm up as we have, is to do this, what's called an essence object exercise. And so I'll just do this with you. We'll do like, a three minute version. Normally it takes about 10 minutes. But so I want you Ted, to imagine a box, and in this box is a set of essence objects. And what does that mean? You know, so because it's a term that I made up, but for me, one of my essence objects is this friendship bracelet that I'm wearing that just to describe it to you who are listening, it's blue and green. It's kind of frayed around the edges, and it's a little bit dirty. It's meaningful to me, because my wife gave this to me. She gives me a friendship bracelet on my birthday every year. Actually, it's the only gift that she gives me. Wow, yeah, and it's really cool to me, because we'll sit on this couch, or, you know, somewhere in this house, and after about nine or 10 months, it wears off. So she re weaves. It's like her cue to reweave a new one for me. And she connects. She like ties this friendship bracelet back on me. And I feel like we're remaking our connection. And. Yes, she's absolutely my best friend. So that, to me, is even more meaningful than my wedding band that I'm also wearing another essence object for me would be, like, barbecue sauce. Because I just love barbecue sauce. I'm not even picky about what kind it is. It could be Chick fil A or like bar, you know, BK, barbecue sauce. But it also reminds me my grandmother, who cooked with barbecue sauce, you know, from the south. There's a Bible that she gave me when I was seven that represents me being raised in the church, being a missionary kid, moving around a lot, but the church and Wednesday night dinners was kind of a constant my life. So I would just just give a few examples, the church, the bracelet, the Bible, barbecue sauce, yeah, some of my essence objects. So Ted give us. And I'm not even gonna make you do a bunch, but maybe just one, what's, what's and if you want to do a second one, you can, but what's, what's an essence object for you, I have


Amie Dorsey  15:47  
one that pops to mind right away, which is, it's a stuffed Stegosaurus that my Aunt Pat gave me. I think it was my fourth birthday. So this is, you know, 1982 and apparently, when I first got it, I actually didn't like it, or, well, her perception of my response was that I was not fond of it. It's made of denim, and I think it probably smelled like fresh denim, you know, which, as a four year old, was just kind of like a weird, you know, sensation. And my only recollection of it is how much I freaking love this thing. It's the only stuffed animal I carried with me through childhood and that I still have, you know, it's the only one I care about and the things I love about it, you know, it's, it's very well made, but also very personally made, very you know, it's got, like, it's my favorite colors and and even beyond that, it's just, it's, it's, it's hand crafted. And really, clearly, you know, I don't even know how to say why. I know that. You just look at and you can say, oh, like a human made this for another human, and that that just has extreme value to me. You know, it means so much. And I, yeah, it's, it's, it's in a box right now, which is interesting. It's in the basement. We, you know, the esthetics, the esthetics of our house are like kind of they're not strict, but there's not a specific place for the dinosaur right now. But I, as I'm thinking about it, I think I should pull that dinosaur out of that box, cool action item.


Ethan Sawyer  17:15  
So one of the things I'm making up based on what you said, is there was a moment when you were talking about it that it shifted to some potential metaphoric qualities, yeah, the notion of this thing being well made, first of all, that someone put a lot of care into it. And the way the phrase that I love, that you said, was that a human made it for another human, yeah, which I'm projecting into you your work, that that might be something that's important to you,


Amie Dorsey  17:39  
that may, that might be the most important thing to me. Yeah,


Ethan Sawyer  17:43  
yeah. I mean, more about that. How does that connect to your work?


Amie Dorsey  17:47  
Man, I just, I'm just gonna tell a story, because that story comes to mind. I had, I was telling someone who just started working for me about a particular student. It came up because we had another student who reminded me of this person. And it was, it was a student from, it was from two years ago, and, gosh, I I'm at risk of getting emotional, so I'm gonna try


Ethan Sawyer  18:13  
to tell the story that's allowed to happen. This is a safe space.


Amie Dorsey  18:19  
The student came to me and was really high achieving at a school that was sort of a little more alternative, you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't Harvard Westlake, which is sort of our most, you know, academically rigorous, competitive school out here in LA. Sorry to all the rest of schools. Don't feel that way, but it totally is another school, and she was a high flyer, she was also highly anxious, you know, to the point where it was, you know, a little bit a little bit debilitating for her, you know, she had a hard time tolerating not being as good at things as she wanted to be. And let me tell you that came through on her standardized test because she could have a feeling and a response to an item, a question that was, you know, intense. And if she got the question, it wasn't so much getting the question wrong, but not feeling like she knew what she was doing, or not feeling kind of welcomed by the test. And so it was just creating sort of an emotional avalanche, you know, within her. And so we worked really hard together. We put a lot of time in and developed a relationship, you know. And that was, you know, the this perfectly, like, you know, harmless and friendly relationship that I think I know, yielded a lot of benefits for her, and even, you know, in terms of the score benefits beyond what we had expected or planned on. And I was so, I was just so moved by the fact that she was willing to kind of go there with me. And, like, you know, take my word for the fact that. She was better at this than she thought she was. And, yeah, I mean, we went on a really great journey together, and she came out the other side having absolutely killed it. And the benefit is not just the numbers are the obvious reason why we do test prep, and there's a whole other side to it, yeah. And to get to the numbers, the students often changing how they think, and hopefully in a really, in a way that's really useful to them, yeah, I think for her, this was so, yeah, I actually, I got through that pretty well with that. I was, I was, I basically had to, like, kick my employee out of the room when I was telling the story the last time, because I just it was so intense for me. It's it anyway. I love, I love that kid, I love what happened in our relationship. And I just, you know, that that's the sort of like, you know, a human did this for another human, you know, like, because they cared, because they cared. That's, that's like, the the nexus of it, you know, that, like I, I wanted her to succeed. I'm not responsible for her success. But I was, I saw her, and I saw that, which I saw that she needed something, and I was willing to put some time and energy into thinking about how I could help her find that. So


Ethan Sawyer  21:14  
this is awesome, because one of the things that I hear in this is like a drive towards deeper values. And one of the things, and this is I'm segueing into the second exercise that I like to do with students, and then I'm going to ask you to do is to consider what some of your core values are. And so normally, I would spend about five or eight minutes on this, but I'm going to just, we'll do a short version of it, and I'm pulling up on my laptop here in front of Ted, I'm pulling up a list of values. And this is just, if you Google values exercise, you'll find this. But I want you to maybe take a look at these and pick two or three of your core values. And you don't need to say what they represent yet, but I just, I'd be curious as you scan this and obviously write something in if. But what are, what are some of your core values? And let's just leave it open. I'm not going to say even in relation to your work, but just your work, but just what are your some of your


Amie Dorsey  22:04  
core values? I mean, it's interesting, because there are some that I look at, I'm like, No, not interested, you know? And then many more that I'm like, Oh, this is they're either, basically, I can dismiss them, or they're absolutely essential. So this is gonna be tricky to pick a couple, yeah, normally, as you're


Ethan Sawyer  22:18  
looking I'll just riff for a second. What I'll have students do is I'll have them, and you don't even need to listen to me, Ted. I'll just talk to the listener. I'll have them pick 10, and then after a few minutes, I'll say, Okay, now let's make it a top five list. And they start to kind of groan. And then, okay, now let's get down to three.


Amie Dorsey  22:32  
And so I could spend all day on this, yeah, because you're


Ethan Sawyer  22:35  
so intuitive and so great brains are making connections that it's easy for you to see connections. You'd probably want to check 30 of these, but if you had to pick just a few this, yeah, and I'll lighten the pressure a little bit, just for today. What values are jumping out to you?


Amie Dorsey  22:50  
Okay, curiosity, honesty, empathy, I don't see creativity, I guess that. Yeah, I would throw that in there. What else?


Gosh, I feel like, well, helping others, compassion. Those are kind of related. Oh, there's creativity. I just found


Ethan Sawyer  23:19  
it. And if you had to pick, let's just say we had to whittle it down to like, two or three, yeah, just for today, which ones are, like, front of mind for you today? Jeez,


Amie Dorsey  23:29  
I'd say creativity really feels strong to me. Creativity slash curiosity. I don't know. I mean, those feel like they're overlapping right now. Sure,


Ethan Sawyer  23:39  
I'd love to hear just about how that's manifesting in your life, in your world right now.


Amie Dorsey  23:45  
Well, I think it's about questions and asking big ass questions, you know, questions that you don't know where they're going. And you know being okay with not knowing the answer to them, and trusting that if you put energy into it, and if you just sort of keep asking the question, that you'll get to an answer. And is


Ethan Sawyer  24:05  
that something that you're doing in your life right now with your software? Give me, yeah, okay, yeah. He just laughed. It was really funny.


Amie Dorsey  24:12  
Yeah, no, it's a it's relevant for me right now.


Ethan Sawyer  24:16  
Wouldn't say more about that, yeah, whatever extent you're comfortable,


Amie Dorsey  24:20  
right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm, I'm gonna do some like traveling upcoming and basically going to kind of leave behind the stability of coming home to the same bed every night. Well, although we will have the same bed, we'll be traveling out of a van for a while. Yeah, and getting ready for that raises a lot of questions. And the sort of like, the weird thing is, there's certainty in doing this and having this, sort of like, live from the road. Venture that like that, the hardest questions answered first, which is, like, Okay, so we're living from the road, okay? Then all the sub questions that like lead up to that, and like, Well, how do you do that? What do you do? Get raised? And what does this mean? And what's the nature of how you're going to interact with others while on the road? Get raised? And so there's all those questions, and that's that's the part where, at times, it's almost like it's No, it's not, almost like it is like solving a puzzle. And the beautiful thing about puzzles, and an interesting thing that I think people don't realize, is that you go into it knowing that you're not gonna know the solution right away. And that's the fun, and that's the weird thing about it is, like, you know, solving a puzzle gives you a sense of satisfaction at the end of it. What leads you to that sense of satisfaction is not knowing the answer up until then. So I think it's, I think it's an interesting thing. I think it's an interesting, like, phenomenon, like I said, curiosity, just being in a place of, huh? I wonder where this road leads. Yeah, I don't know. Let's go explore it and see, see if we discover something along the way. One of


Ethan Sawyer  26:07  
the things, as you were talking, what I was making up, in my mind, was that there was something that led to this moment, something that led to a decision to, well, you know, therefore, let's go on a trip. Let's take an adventure. Let's travel. And so as we segue into the last exercise, which normally takes about 20 minutes, but we're going to do kind of like a five to eight minute version of it, I want to kind of keep on this path of this, what brought you to this decision to go on this trip? And I want to ask so in the first part of this exercise, it's six questions. And the first question is, was there something that was challenging to you in your life that you were challenged by that ultimately led to this decision?


Amie Dorsey  26:52  
Yeah. I mean, if I'm gonna go be totally frank, it's probably growing up gay in the Midwest, you know, in the early 90s, and just a place where, you know, it was, No, it was, it was pretty unfriendly, yeah, I mean, like, you just didn't, you know, I got through high school and I knew one, I had one friend who was a gay man, and he was, you know, a great resource to me, and he was, he was a year younger than me, and he was unafraid, but he he wasn't out to the school at large. He was out to his friends, but it was very difficult to be Be yourself, you know. So I think that's probably part of the Yeah, adventuring spirit, you know. Give


Ethan Sawyer  27:27  
me some of the this is the second question. What were some of the effects on you of that challenge? And I don't mean, let me specify what I mean by effects. I don't mean necessarily, like the feelings, because there were feelings. We'll talk about those in a minute. But what were the external impacts? How did your How was your world different from my world? Growing up as you, you know, make up whatever that means to you. But you know, for example, my parents got divorced. One of the effects of that was that my mom moved out. That's like a thing that happened. So what were some of the effects or impacts on your life? The


Amie Dorsey  27:57  
biggest one is like self editing and being sort of hyper self conscious in order to not reveal that I was gay, you know. So I went through elementary school just being my weird self, you know, it's like, I, I love myself, and I love the fact that I'm kind of a weird guy, you know, it's like, I, you know, I don't know how weird other people think I am, but I feel like I am, and that's fine. You know, that's a great thing about me. I think at some point I started to, like, try to hone myself into a more kind of mainstream identity in order to be less discoverable. You know what I mean? And like, that's part of that is just junior high and how like, miserable freaking Junior High is. It's worse when you're gay, but at least in the 90s. So, yeah. So that was and so like tuning up my self editing capability, I think was probably the, you know, the biggest challenge there. The


Ethan Sawyer  28:52  
next question, in terms of this, we have the challenges and some of the effects of that, what I've heard you say so far, some of the effects was this, the one of the main ones was the Self Editing, not wanting to out yourself, not wanting to you didn't say this, but like, get caught and, oh yeah, exactly, yeah. Okay, what were some of the feelings associated with this? And just so you guys know, I'm bringing up a list. It's kind of hard to think of feelings, so I'm bringing up this list on this screen of feelings, and I'll share in the podcast notes, where you can see the same list.


Amie Dorsey  29:20  
I don't know if you know this, by the way, that Matt, my husband, and I, wrote some children's books about feelings, which the characters are like these sort of 21st century anime characters who all represent an emotion. So and one thing I've learned, and this is a great list, is that it's interesting to look at feelings and think about them in a sort of nuanced way, where you know, each one has its particular identity. You know, they really are different. And so I'm looking at this list right now, and I think the first category that I'm going towards is scared within scared you've got apprehensive is that dread for thread, yeah, you know, panicky. I was never, I was never panicked. About this, I was definitely apprehensive, you know, just sort of like preserved in a way, yeah, yeah. At times sad, you know, at times it was there was there was like, almost like a net effect of all the sort of, you know, work that was going into it just was, like, exhausting, right? You know, exhausted, yeah, another one, yeah, totally, yeah. That's, that's a funny one. That's, that's one of our characters. I've always actually had an issue with it being a feeling, but I guess it is a feeling, isn't it? Yeah, let's see, is it on the


Ethan Sawyer  30:32  
list? That's not. I don't know if it's on the list, but I think it might be anyway, yeah,


Amie Dorsey  30:36  
well, there's tired. Yeah. No, there it is, right. There. Tired, exhausted. Yeah.


Ethan Sawyer  30:41  
Next question, yeah. What? Non violent communication puts forth the idea that our feelings are deeply connected to our needs, that we feel a thing because we have an unmet need. So What? What? What do you feel like when you think about feeling scared or feeling nervous or feeling exhausted. What were your needs?


Amie Dorsey  31:04  
Yeah, well, I would say connection, you know, a fear of being disconnected, a fear of being, you know, kind of kicked out of the pack. Because I think that, you know, I used to do a lot of SAT work on the old SAT and, you know, vocabulary was always a huge part of that. So there's the word eccentric, which I think of myself as, and what it means is, you know, Eck or x, as in out of and then centric, as in the center. So basically, like you're not in the center of the pack. That doesn't necessarily mean you're completely divorced from the pack. You're just not in, sort of in the center, you know, if there's this sort of like circle that represents humanity, you're towards the edge. I think I was nervous about getting kicked out of the circle, yeah, you know, yeah, not being welcomed at all, yeah.


Ethan Sawyer  31:53  
What did you do to meet that need? This is the fifth question. So, based on this need, this need to feel connected, yeah, to not be kicked out of the circle, right? What were some strategies that you developed either positive or negative, right?


Amie Dorsey  32:05  
Yeah. I mean, I think positively or more negatively, or both. I, you know, and this is true for every human, but I needed and wanted love, you know. And I needed and wanted positive, positive responses from people that, if you're sort of on the edge and a little bit different than most, you know, from, you know, I've little bit of an, I think, offbeat sense of humor, sometimes dark sense of humor. And is that


Ethan Sawyer  32:32  
one of the ways that you maybe? And so my question is, how did you get that need for love or that need for connection? Matt, yeah,


Amie Dorsey  32:37  
I mean, I think that like that to me, that sense of humor thing is just part of my identity. You know, as a little kid, I remembered, like, dark things just making me happy. You know what I mean? Like, this is okay, so random, quick story. There was a I had a dinosaur book. I was into dinosaurs when I was little, and there was a picture of what was it called. It was not a Raptor, but it was sort of in the Raptor family. Dino NICUs, is what it was called, and it was shredding another dinosaur with its front claw. And like, literally, this was the only graphic image in the book, and it wasn't even that graphic, but it had, like, sort of sliced open the belly of this other dinosaur that was, like, the most interesting, craziest, coolest thing I'd ever seen. And I was like, scared of it and attracted to it all. And I would basically open the book just to look at that one particular image, you know. So I think that that was, like, endemic, you know, the sort of like appeal of the of the dark side a little bit. And I still feel that way. And I'm not, I'm definitely not a violent person, but I'm someone who, like, embraces seeing the good and bad of humanity, yeah. So the the challenge there is that that also is eccentric, right? Like, you know, you know, being gay is one thing. Being having a dark sense of humor is another thing. And there, and it's all fine, it's all it's all just a little bit eccentric. And so I think I would show that to people and hope for their approval, you know. And so, like, basically be working at the edges of the circle and but then kind of be looking towards the inner part of the circle and hoping that people were like, yeah, man, you know, go riff, that's cool. So it was, it was like, this weird, not weird, but this joint, you know, exploration of outer boundaries and approval from those in this in the middle. How else


Ethan Sawyer  34:23  
I'm just curious, just in terms of what you were involved with, what you were doing, how else did you get that need for connection? Matt, what else did you do? Or did you have any extracurricular activities to ask a really leading question,


Amie Dorsey  34:35  
yeah, and I did. I did. I mean, I, you know, I had, like, I was, I was on the swim team, and I was, you know, in choir and in theater. And you know, theater was probably the most, where I connected with people the most. But even beyond that, I was, it was my friendships, you know, just like and, you know, everyone has great friendships, but I had these, you know, deep, intense friendships, where we'd share as share as deeply as we possibly could. And that was the. A, you know, that was where I was getting my sense of approval. I didn't have, I don't think I had, like a zillion friends. I just had, you know, 12 friends who I still have, yeah, with whom I could share everything. So, yeah, like a, you know, like a safe space to share. I think is what I was. Did you feel like you found that a safe place to safe space? Definitely. I definitely did. Yeah. I mean, I could, yeah. I'm thinking of all of those people out there right


Ethan Sawyer  35:29  
now. On to the last question. It's there are two questions at the end, but one of them is, what did you learn through so what I've heard you say so far is, there was this challenge growing up gay in the Midwest and feeling having the Self Editing impulse that sort of sometimes made you scared and sometimes made you feel, I don't know if you said this exactly these words, but like you didn't belong, and the need where it was for connection and love, one of the ways you got this was through your friends, through you mentioned theater, also through Dark jokes, and potentially finding some connection through that, through, let's say, the theater, and through the friends, and through the dark jokes. What did what did you learn? What are some of the, if I may, the values that you developed through this and I'm gonna scroll down to this values list, and you've mentioned some of them already. You mentioned empathy, you mentioned creativity. You know, these are some of the core values, but there may be some others that are coming up for you just as you told this version of your story,


Amie Dorsey  36:25  
yeah, this is great. Geez. The ones your eye kind of goes to certain things, you know what? I mean, like your eye just sort of stops on the ones that resonate. I would say, I mean, I'm just gonna throw out all the ones that I see, freedom was one.


Ethan Sawyer  36:42  
Oh, let's just stop right there.


Amie Dorsey  36:44  
Yeah, talking about that, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a powerful one, you know. That's a powerful one for me. And I think it's, it's gonna be sort of a lifelong challenge to try to find freedom, you know, and what that is, and how that, how that works, and how much freedom we're allowed to take for ourselves. Let's Sorry to


Ethan Sawyer  37:03  
cut you off, yeah, let's just listen. Let's keep it to you like, yeah. What is freedom? What did it look like when you were the kid growing up West, versus what does it look like and feel like now? And maybe, if you might, if you could connect it to the trip that you're about to take? Yeah,


Amie Dorsey  37:17  
yeah. I mean, that's, that's a huge part of it. That's exactly what the trip is. It's like, well, quick story about that.


Ethan Sawyer  37:24  
So by the way, with anybody listening, I will normally not be that directive in an essay session, but I just suddenly saw all these connections, and it was like, so counselor mine went off. So yeah, do with it. What you will.


Amie Dorsey  37:35  
Yeah, yeah. I mean the so we're gonna rent our house for a year, which basically, you know, is a way of compelling ourselves to be on the road for a year. However, my mind wants to be on the road for as long as we want to be on the road, you know where and who knows. Maybe that's, I mean, maybe we get out and we're out there for two weeks and we're like, yeah, you know what? This isn't working, so we better go home and figure something else out. I don't think that's the way it's going to go. Gonna go, but I'm open to that. Alternately, maybe we'll just stay on the road, you know, if it's working and we like having sort of geographical freedom, maybe we'll just keep cruising around and stop in places, you know what I mean, and like, hang out for a while. You know? I really want to be in Maine in September, you know? It's like, I want, I want changing colors of the leaves. I want freaking lobster, you know? And that's just a starting point, right? Then it's like, well, what do we do in Maine? Okay, connect


Ethan Sawyer  38:34  
me to the why? What is this? On a deeper level that you said this is about, or I'm making up, because you mentioned freedom, and you said there might be a connection here. What you said, in fact, when, you know, initially, when we just started this conversation, I said, What? Why this trip? And you went to, you know, for me, the challenge that this came from is growing up gay in the Midwest, help me make that connection? And it's I'm asking, it sounds like I'm asking for, like, a really direct connection. But I'd just be curious if there's anything that you're noticing about that, like, why? Therefore, then a trip, yeah, to go wherever.


Amie Dorsey  39:06  
Well, you know, it's funny. Yeah, it's good. I The the other word that popped out, and this is a, I'm looking at a list of, probably I don't know, 75 terms. And two, I've only read two, so my brain has only seen two of them. And the other one, besides freedom, is courage. And I think that's that that really resonates in terms of this trip, where it's an expression of, like, having the bravery to, you know, do something unconventional and make it work. And I think that's, like, it's kind of a response or a, you know, I'm like, a parallel response to having grown up gay, you know, and having to, you know, filter and in some ways repress that definitely repress. I definitely did when I was a kid, that this is my way of being. Like, hey, you know what? I've learned that it's okay for me to do crazy ass things, and I can make it work, and I'm not like most other people. So the you know this, maybe the stock comes a surprise to you. Maybe it won't, but I'm gonna do this thing and I'm gonna make it work. And if you along our route of exploring, want to have a cup of tea with me. I'd love to do that, you know. And that's just the, I don't know that. That's the, that's the feeling I get. It's like, it's a, it's a courageous response to a unique challenge. You know, I'm


Ethan Sawyer  40:33  
really good again, as as you said, I mean, even that last thing you said about, if you want to, you know, join me for a cup of tea. Like there's that openness to connection. And the again, back to connection, is that that's like a deep desire that, in some ways, was met, but you're continuing, continuing to fulfill that desire. Yeah, in new ways.


Amie Dorsey  40:53  
Well, yeah, I mean that, yeah, that's funny. That line, yeah. I love when the details turn into, like the main idea, you know what I mean, right? Because it really that it's simple as that, if you're, if you're open to me, you know. And if you want to have a conversation with me, I'd love to have a conversation with you, you know, I almost, I would almost say no to, I don't say no to anybody you know. I'd be happy to talk to just about No, everybody you know. So anyway, that's your invitation. Will the stegosaurus


Ethan Sawyer  41:18  
come with you on the road, or is the road, or is the second story staying home? Well, we got 60


Amie Dorsey  41:22  
square feet, yeah, bringing the podcast gear, so I will still be out there recording, but I think it'll be, yeah, books, laptop, clothes, bicycle,


Ethan Sawyer  41:40  
more essence objects, by the way,


Amie Dorsey  41:41  
yeah, yeah, totally, right, yeah, that's funny, yeah. What do I Well, that's the other thing. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm like, I'm enjoying talking about myself quite a bit that I'm not a stuff person. I'm not, like, a things person. I don't have, I don't really have. I've got, like, my one beauty product, which is the thing that keeps my curls from turning into a total afro, and that's it, you know. So I'm excited for that too. I'm excited to, like, leave a lot of stuff behind, not because I hate this stuff, but just because I don't need it. And it'll be fun to be sort of, you know, free and easy and having having more experiences than physical things, right? It's the experiences that we're definitely after, right? I'm


Ethan Sawyer  42:24  
giving more core values. Thank you. Thanks for being willing to just dive into that. I hope it was


Amie Dorsey  42:30  
interesting. I hope it was i How was it for you? It was good. It was good. It was like, I think in some ways, I would say, I, I'm sure I could go to a scarier place. It wasn't, I mean, it wasn't, I mean, it wasn't like I was not vulnerable, that I was vulnerable. And I this is the stuff I'm thinking about so much that I think in some ways, like I didn't come in pre planned at all. But I think maybe the challenge of having a microphone in front of me, would, you know, makes it so I wouldn't go to, like, a really scary place. I don't think I have that many really scary places, but it felt honest, which is, you know, a core value of mine. But, you know, we'll do another session off. Mike, well, I


Ethan Sawyer  43:10  
just, I just want to say, like I feel closer to you. I feel more connected to you. I feel grateful that you let us in a little bit. Because I feel, I feel in I feel like you like I feel a little bit inside your head, inside your heart, and I feel like I know you a little more and so thanks.


Amie Dorsey  43:27  
Oh, I Well, I appreciate it. Appreciate you asking me these questions.


Ethan Sawyer  43:33  
Thanks for listening. Don't forget to check out the show notes at college. Sa guy.com/podcast and don't forget to check out part two of this episode where Ted gets into some really practical tips for how to improve your a CT score in 20 minutes. You can find that on the website, and that's what I got. Stay curious. You.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai