517: Inside the Application (Part 3): Supplemental Essay Deep Dive + Developing the College List w/ Special Guest Renee Ferrerio

Ethan Sawyer  0:08  
Hi friends and welcome back to the podcast. So this is episode three in my series with Cassidy, a current high school senior who's working through the college application process right now, and we're following her step by step. In Episode One, we focused on her personal statement. In Episode Two, we looked briefly at her activities list and additional info section, and talked a little bit about her application strategy and some of her topics. This episode is a deep dive into her supplemental essays. Now these are specific essays that many selective colleges and universities require, and you're basically gonna get to see, kind of like an over the shoulder view of how I work with students, one on one in particular, Cassidy and I get into how do you write the what would you bring to our campus essay, which has become really popular in the last couple years. How do you write an essay that focuses on intellectual vitality, or like a moment where you learn something? And how do you write the roommate essay, which many students know is for Stanford, but some other schools require it. Some tips on the short answer questions, which is, you know, questions that are like 50 words or less. And then finally, we close the episode out with a special guest appearance with Renee Ferrario, who's one of my awesome colleagues here at College Essay, Guy who works with students. She's been working in college admissions for three decades. She's got a master's in school counseling, has worked as a public and independent school counselor, serves on numerous college advisory boards and committees like the common applications outreach advisory board. You'll meet her in just a little bit. First though, let's see how Cassidy is doing on her supplemental essays so far.


So how's writing going? It's


Cassidy  1:49  
been going pretty good. Yeah, I actually like did it all over Labor Day weekend, so it was a lot of cramming for me, but I actually found that I started enjoying it because I really liked the topics I was writing about, so it was good. So I


Ethan Sawyer  2:04  
want to double click on something you just said. It sounds like there was a way that you were relating to the writing process in a particular way, and then you found topics you liked, and now you're maybe relating to it differently.


Cassidy  2:15  
Yeah, yeah. I found it was really hard for me to start the writing. Because I was like, I was like, like, not sure how to how to start my essays and start drafting, but then once I started getting into it, I was like, Wait, like, these are topics I could actually, like, expand a lot upon, because I love talking about them. So and


Ethan Sawyer  2:36  
what did it take? How did you find your topics? What sort of process did you go through to find topics that you liked?


Cassidy  2:41  
It was thinking about for me, like, a lot of the like, major things that I would get excited about, and for me that would probably be, like biology and then also, like educating others on the grieving process. So I was just brainstorming ideas around those topics.


Ethan Sawyer  2:57  
Cool. So it sounds like you found some stuff that you're like, Ooh, I actually maybe have a lot to say about this,


Cassidy  3:01  
yeah, like stuff that I talk to my friends about, too


Ethan Sawyer  3:05  
neat, neat. So what I'd love to do is I'd love to walk through some supplemental essays with you that you're working on, and then maybe even get into some of the short answers. And then at the end of this session, we'll bring in Renee Ferrario, who's a counselor that I work with, and she can talk a little bit about college lists. I know you've done a lot of research and thinking on this already, but it's just awesome, I think, to have another perspective, and someone who can, you know, in one in some cases, like, point out schools you maybe haven't thought about, or, you know, point out certain aspects of schools that are worth researching more deeply, because then it could potentially either a make it into your essays, or B, just get you more hyped about those schools. Because I think that especially when you can get hyped about schools that you have an even better chance of getting into it just makes this whole process, you know, easier, because then we're like, we're, you know, I think we talked about this, having eight first choices in schools that we're really excited about. So let's jump in. Is that cool? Yeah, sounds good. Great. So you shared with me an essay that you're working on for Chapman, which is, I mean, all the schools that Cassidy is applying to are in California, and then you've got a couple that you're working on for Stanford. So let's start with the Chapman essay. I'd love to read it aloud and then ask you what you think about it. And then, essentially, this is, you know, this is like, what it would look like to this is kind of like an over the shoulder session of, like, what it would be like to to work, like, when I'm working with students, like, this is exactly the process I'm going to take you through. And I acknowledging that this is that we're sort of, like, I would say, like, kind of at the word 1/3 point of the process right now, and it's not quite at the at the midway point, and I don't think we're quite like running downhill yet, because you're really just starting these essays. So I just want to, like, acknowledge that, acknowledge everybody listening. All right, so I'd love to just jump in with you. And this is going to be like, like, we're having an essay session together, and I want to talk to you about, first, this Chapman essay that you're working on, and then I want to segue into, like, looking at this. Infern essays. It's like a whole application, but I think there's a correlation, and I'll talk to you about that when we get there. Are you done to just jump in. Does


Cassidy  5:06  
that sound good? Yeah, awesome. I'm ready. All right. So


Ethan Sawyer  5:09  
looking at Chapman, first of all, you're thinking about majoring in biology, but it could change you. You've said to me, but Chapman asks. It says, Our committee would like to hear about a personal experience or lesson that's helped you better understand who you are now and or appreciate a perspective different from your own. And then here's the crucial part of the prompt. How would you utilize this understanding to contribute to the values and welcoming fabric of our campus community? So first, I want to just say this is a prompt that's a variation on a really popular prompt that's become more popular after the Supreme Court decision to ban race conscious admissions, where basically campuses want to know more than ever, what are you bringing to the table? What are you bringing to the potluck of things? And Stanford has a similar prompt, which we'll get to in just a little bit now, just so that folks know for context. Chapman also has two other prompts where they ask, out of all the 1000s of universities and colleges, what excites you about Chapman in particular, which is sort of like a why us essay, and they also have a y major essay, please tell us about your interest in the major you selected. So that stuff about biology doesn't have to work into this essay, because you're going to mention it. Certainly you're going to talk about it in your y major, and you'll probably mention it a little bit in your Ys. So what that does is that it frees you up to talk about really anything you want. And in fact, I would say probably let's not talk about biology, because you're going to be talking about that in this other essay, right? So let's read it aloud, and then we'll talk about it. So again, again, just so that folks are centered. How would you utilize this understanding that you came to hear from this experience to contribute to the value, values and welcoming fabric of the Chapman community? Here's the essay so far. A couple of weeks after my dad passed, I started tearing up in front of the girls locker room. An unexpected wave of grief sweeping over me. I remember my friends whispering repeated condolences, but mainly I remember one thing someone said to me, quote, you'll be fine. I remember feeling so isolated. Now I don't blame her for saying that actually, emotionally inept middle school me would have been horrified at the thought of having to comfort a crying friend, but I do blame how our society fosters a comfort culture in the midst of so many instant gratifiers, food, gaming and my personal weakness, social media, why should we take the time to mull over what's making us unhappy? However, as my grieving process has taught me, emotions don't disappear with suppression, being able to sit with discomfort is a skill, one that leads to more sensitive communities and validated emotions. This in turn, strengthens our sense of mutuality and belonging. I've witnessed it through my grieving, as my close friends sat with me while I cried, accepting my sorrow instead of trying to fix it. I felt seen. I'd love to spark interest in the importance of holding space, even if, especially if, the ensuing conversation is an uncomfortable one. Okay, I'm not going to tell you what I think yet. What do you think hearing that piece of writing, I


Cassidy  8:21  
think it's really personal to the to the writer, and I think you can really tell through their, you know, anecdotes, yeah, yeah.


Ethan Sawyer  8:29  
Let's just go. I'm going to ask you some, like, basic questions. Do you feel like the author answers the prompt? So let me read it again. Our committee would like to write a personal experience or lesson that's helped you better understand who you are. Now, how would you utilize this understanding to contribute to the values and welcoming fabric of our campus community? I


Cassidy  8:47  
think we get a lot about the personal experience part, but maybe I can expand a little more about the how I'm going to contribute to the to the campus community.


Ethan Sawyer  8:56  
Yeah, I agree. I'm with you. I think it's very clear that this is personal, and I the personal you focus on a particular experience, and then a you a specific moment, even the you'll be fine moment, and it's tricky because it's 200 words. So you know what gets tripped? That's what we'll talk about here in just a second. It's, I mean, I'll share some things that I see. It's vulnerable. I really do get a sense from you. I love that you're picking up on a thread that you've talked about briefly in your personal statement. So it feels like a little bit of like a little bit of a continuation, because you mentioned, you know, dad's passing in the personal statement briefly, but you didn't really get into detail. And here's an insight that you've you've developed. I also really love the depth of the insight. Like I feel like you sort of went into your soul and you're like, What do I have to say about this that might be useful on someone else's journey, or something like that. Let me ask you this, when you again, I'm sort of interested in, like, the process of coming to this, because it feels like you went inward until you found an insight. Does that feel like, what happened? And like, that's kind of a mysterious thing, how that happens. So like, how did that go for you?


Cassidy  9:59  
Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of, like, introspection and like trying to think about, like, going back to that moment, and like thinking, what's, what's different between then and like now in myself, yeah,


Ethan Sawyer  10:11  
yeah. It feels like you went, and you're like, it seems like you asked yourself something, like, what did I learn from this experience? Which may be obvious, because that's like, literally the prompt, but it's like, and it seems like you went back to something that was like, impactful for you, and then you found this thing, and you basically, what I'm reading is you basically answered, so what? Several times. So let me tell you what I mean in terms of like, what I think is going well, before we get into like things we can tweak. So you say, Here, there's this moment where someone comes up to you and says, you'll be fine. And then, so what happened? And you say, I remember feeling so isolated. So what? So I love to see the way your brain goes here, where you start with empathy, where you say you don't actually blame her. There's like a so what? You actually blame society. There's this culture of, sort of like you said, comfort culture. And then, so what? So like, how did we get here? Is sort of what I see you answering next, and you're saying that we're in a culture of instant gratifiers. Why would we want to mull over what's making us unhappy? I just think that's a beautiful phrase. So what you said, emotions don't disappear with suppression. Being able to sit with discomfort is a skill. Like each one of these sentences, Cassidy, you're answering the question so what? And it's showing me, like, your ability to think critically. It's also showing your emotional intelligence. I think those are connected. But for those who are listening, I just want to encourage you all as you're thinking about, you know, writing your essays when you've got something that you do feel connected to, if you can just kind of, so what yourself until you say things that I don't know. I imagine Cassidy as you're writing this. There were pieces of this, and I may be wrong here, but there were pieces of this that you were kind of discovering as you were writing. And you're nodding right now, I can see like, did you find yourself surprised? Surprising yourself at all? Yeah,


Cassidy  12:04  
I totally did. Like, I had no idea where this was coming from, but it also felt so like true to myself. Yeah,


Ethan Sawyer  12:10  
I really feel that. And so it's kind of, I don't know, a mysterious process how this happens, but there's sort of like an inward turning that I make up that you were doing, and a sort of digging, like an emotional digging, and again, the process is just asking yourself, so what, so what, so what. And then each sentence kind of gives us a new so what, and it's, I don't know what's going to come next as I read this, and that's what makes it exciting. And what I imagine is that you didn't exactly know what was going to come next, and I see you nodding again, and that's what I think ends up yielding something that ends up feeling like insight. So let's look at this like the second half of the essay you say being able to sit with discomfort is a skill, one that leads to more sensitive communities and validated emotions. So that's a beautiful connection that you're making of like, here's a thing that's worth doing, and this, in turn, strengthens our sense of mutuality and belonging. So you've done it again. So what does this do? Well, it helps people to feel like they belong. I've witnessed it through my grieving, as my close friends sat with me while I cried, accepting my sorrow instead of trying to fix it, I felt seen Okay. So here's what the first suggestion that I'm gonna make is, like, I think this is a good sentence, and it could be that you keep this one, but as I scan the whole thing, there's not a lot of room, because you're basically you need to set up the moment. You need to share the moment that you'll be fine. And you do that at the end of the first paragraph. So I think that's pretty tight. You share the feeling. I remember feeling so isolated, and the rest of it is So what sort of like, what happened inside your brain? I agree with you that having a few different touch points of how these realizations will help contribute to the Chapman community. So I'm going to mark this sentence at the end of and it's not a ton. It's like maybe 28 words that could potentially, you know, go on the chopping block and give you some space where you can make some connections, so that the reader doesn't have to guess about where you're seeing yourself manifest this skill, or where you hope to develop or continue to develop this skill, or how you hope to bring this superpower, as it were, to the Chapman community. Now, superpower feels a little bit like light or a little bit, I don't know. I don't know. It's not quite the right word here, but what I hear you saying is that I want to be able to sit with others in their discomfort, and I'd love to hear from your perspective, from your research, what are some different places on campus where you could see yourself doing that? Is it volunteering? Is it through a club? Is it through community work like, what are those, those different situations? So what you're gonna kind of do here is weave in a little why us moment where it's like, in other words, why us. Essays are all about this finding the specifics on campus. And honestly, I don't think it needs to go on for, you know, 100 words. I think that you've got, you're focusing most of your attention and energy on the insights and the one. It did to you. So it's like setup. So what did this do to me? So here's how I see this manifesting on campus. And I love your ending. I would love to spark interest in the importance of holding space, even if, especially if, the ensuing conversation is an uncomfortable one, like, that's a beautiful ending line. I mean, play with putting stuff before it, but this feels like the overarching thing that you're hoping to bring to the campus. So I think this essay is maybe, like, you know, 80% of the way there, and I would just bring in a couple different maybe examples of this. Yeah, so my notes are kind of few there.


Cassidy  15:31  
Nice work. Awesome. Thank you. So


Ethan Sawyer  15:34  
you'll work on the Y us essay, and you'll work on the Y major essay for Chapman. But I wanted to shift over to Stanford and kind of zoom back and talk about how, because students are sometimes faced with with some of these schools that have a bunch of essays, for example, like MIT, or, you know, Stanford as an example. USC is another example of these schools that have a lot of different essay prompts. The question becomes, how do you share different sides of yourself in these different prompts. So let me just so that folks have the big picture, I want to share some of the prompts, aka opportunities that you have to show different sides of yourself, and then we'll get into the specifics. So first of all, Stanford has an essay that's similar to the Chapman prompt, which is describe what aspects of your life, experiences, interests and character would help you make a distinctive contribution as an undergrad at Stanford. And I have an exercise for that, which we'll get to in just a minute. Then you've got what's called the it used to be called the intellectual vitality essay, but now it's called, it's like the excited about learning essay. So this is the essay where Stanford really, I think, wants to see that you're going to be able they want to see your intellectual curiosity. We talked about that briefly, I think, in episode one of the series where one of these, one of the things that Stanford is big on, but a lot of colleges are big on, is your intellectual vitality. So the prompt is, the Stanford community is deeply curious and driven to learn in and out of the classroom, reflect on an idea or experience that makes you genuinely excited about learning. So this is like, I call this, like the brains essay. And then next prompt, this is the in, at least in the college admission world famous Stanford roommate essay, write a note to your future roommate that reveals something about you or that will help your roommate and us get to know you better. So I think of this as the personality essay. So so far, these are the 250 words each. Stanford's asking, What are you gonna bring to our community? Tell us about your brains, your intellectual vitality, and then give us a sense of your personality. What would you write to your roommate? And those are the three, you know, medium level supplemental essays. And then we've got a bunch of short answers, which we won't get into and just until we've gone through the big ones. So let's start with, I want to start with an exercise that I want to I don't know if we'll get through the whole thing, but I want to just sort of put on your radar, or put back on your radar, so you've already, you're going to be writing an essay for Chapman that's on a particular experience. And if you wanted to, I'll just say Option A is you could take that same approach, and you could just go deep on, hey, here's an experience that I had, and just, you know, copy paste, essentially, from Chapman. Here's the thing that I learned from that experience. I want to be able to be a space holder. And here are some ways that I want to hold space. And the positive of that is, we would go deep on this particular quality that you have, and that's a potential, totally legit way to go. The downside of that is that we might miss out on a variety of some of the other things that you're hoping to engage with or bring out, you know, and show to Stanford. So I don't think you decide today, I want to give you an exercise that I think will help you think about this, and it's this darn roles and identities exercise that we've talked about briefly in the last two episodes. But what I'd love to do is with you for just a second, Cassidy, look at some of the roles and identities that you've highlighted. There things that you feel like you've, you know, that you could show and and brainstorm, sort of like a, you know, a three minute version of what are some roles and identities that you have already, you know, been building, and then that you could potentially see yourself continuing to develop While at Stanford. And then just see if that, you know, could lead to an interesting, some interesting pieces for this, roommate essay or not. Roommate essay, this, this, what do you bring to the community essay? So take a look at your roles and identities. And identities exercise, and by the way, it'll be linked in the show notes. But are there different roles and identities that you feel like you maybe haven't shown in big ways so far in other parts of the application for Stanford that you feel like, oh, it would be nice to bring these in, maybe here. And let's, let's relieve the pressure of having to, like, pick the three perfect ones, and let's just pick like, seven different ones. And then we'll kind of be expansive. And then, you know, we can, kind of, you can kind of whittle


Cassidy  19:50  
it down later. Okay? I think maybe cheerleader, I could expand on Okay, collaborator, I feel like I might. I haven't really shown how I collaborate with other people that much. Great.


Ethan Sawyer  20:01  
Right and cheerleader, you mean in the broad sense, right with friends at the hospital ballet? Yeah, yeah, yep,


Cassidy  20:08  
maybe like a maker, a an idealist, an explorer and a question asker and problem solver,


Ethan Sawyer  20:21  
awesome. I'm just highlighting these as you're talking idealist question, asker, problem solver, great. Love this. So the ones that I'm like and I'm surprised by, but the ones that I'm like, going, Oh yeah, I would like to see more about that are so far the Well, first of all, the collaborator one. I'm big into, because this is another one of those admission nutrients where it's like one of those things that colleges love to see. They love to see the way that you collaborate with others. I think that we get a little bit of that on the personal statement, but I'd love to see more of that. So I'm just going to underline that. I think that's a really cool one. I don't think I know about the maker side of you as much. So I'm going to underline that one. I think I can see, I mean, maybe it's because I'm sort of getting to know you. I can see the idealist. It just comes through. I think I'm going to put idealist as a question mark, because I think it might be good for you to scan through and be like, is your idealist side already shining through or not? And it would be good to sort of like imagine that someone doesn't know you, and to read through your personal statement and to read through the other essays for for Stanford. By the way, we'll look at the roommate essay, because I think it comes through a little bit there as well. There's like that positivity. Ooh, I love the question asker one. And I think question asker and Problem Solver could maybe go together and could show some more of that intellectual vitality. So some of these things, you know, they don't have to necessarily come through in this particular essay. It could be that your problem solver question, asker comes through in some way in this like, what gets you excited about learning? So just, I'm putting that on the as a possibility. But, yeah, maker collaborator, yeah. And then I think if you did talk about the cheerleader side of your you know, the cheerleader, I think could come through maybe in the roommate essay. I'm just noticing this. So what let me just name for, what's happening for, as we're looking at this, is, like, I don't think this is an exercise that's just for brainstorming one essay, although it can be, but it's, this is really an application exercise, meaning it can you we can use this for thinking about different sides of view. They're going to come out in a to come out in other parts of the application as well. This is really cool. Okay, so what the mental math that I'm doing is I'm sort of going and I want to ask you first what you think, but it's like, okay, if we imagine an essay that is sort of like, we're going to call it the Chapman version of what you would bring. And it's an essay that talks about this realization that you had in terms of dealing with grief. And then this, like you zoomed in on one quality. And then you have option B, which is like you have this essay where you're able to show, for example, your collaborator self, your maker self, your, let's say your your cheerleader self or your problem solver question ask yourself. We can kind of like, sort of projection of the future. And the question I want to ask is something like, and it may sound like a leading question, but like, which of these is more appealing to you?


Cassidy  23:15  
I like the one where I can show more sides of myself.


Ethan Sawyer  23:18  
Yeah, you can sort of maybe hear my bias. The good news is you don't actually have to pick right now, because you're already going to be writing the version A for Chapman. So I would say, Yeah. I would say, proceed with writing version B. And all you need to do is pick three to four of these identities, write about how each of these has manifested in your life so far. And then part two is to research, where do you think these identities could manifest themselves on the Stanford campus? So, where can you be a cheerleader? Where can you be a maker? Where can you continue to be a collaborator or problem solver? Question asker, and that's going to be a, you know, a fun thing to research, hopefully. So you're kind of writing a why us essay here, essentially going back and forth between you them. Now, the structure for this could go first half all about me, second half all about them. You know, like, here's how I will do that. Or you can kind of go back and forth. You can be like identity one, I'm this kind of person, and I could see it manifesting on campus in this particular way. So either of these can work. And then once you've done that draft, you can always go back and if you like the other one, if you're like, Ooh, I'm just really in love with this Chapman version, you can always come back to that. But yeah, I'm with you. I think it's really worth at least exploring this, this, like, wider version, or something


Cassidy  24:39  
awesome. Thank you, beautiful. Okay, so


Ethan Sawyer  24:43  
let's imagine, then we've seen some of those sides of you in this essay. The next one asks about, I think, idea experience that makes you genuinely excited about learning. Now, what I like to say to students is, this is the one where you reassure them that you're able to do Stanford level work, and for any other school that's asking something about. Uh, your, you know, intellectual vitality. Insert school. So I think, you know, Yale has one that's like this, Princeton. You know, other schools have levels like, show them that you can come in week one and and come in at a high level, but they're not going to have to worry about you, basically, okay, simply put, the draft goes an organism at equilibrium is a dead organism. When I learned this in AP Biology, my color coding, day planning, organizational freak self was appalled. How can a system in complete balance not be at its peak? By the way, side note, you're studying bio. You want to study bio potentially. I love that you're writing about bio here. I think that's really smart. Actually, the essay goes, the goal of a system is to maintain homeostasis, a kind of dynamic stability that trumps static equilibrium, while equilibrium leaves no room for any fluctuations in free energy, thus no energy available to do work. Homeostasis constantly regulates various processes to keep them within optimal range. Now for those of you listening, I'll just say for myself, I think I got most of that, and it definitely sounds smart. I don't know if I 100% got it, so that's just me. I wanted to just give you my initial reaction to this. I think I got it, and I think if I read it again, I would get what you're saying. But just so you know, and I'll sometimes do this with students, is be like, Hey, I think I got it, but I'm not sure. And I think that's good feedback, good for you to know. Okay. And that doesn't necessarily mean you have to edit this. It just could mean that on a first read, I was dense, or thinking about something else, or something like that. So this is not me saying definitely edit that Cassidy, but just like, hey, I don't know if I got that. And this is like, quick side note to parents listening or counselors listening. I think it's good to tell students that you know, as soon as, like, what are the live reactions? And that's why I basically almost never read essays ahead of time. I like to read them fresh so you can kind of get the first reaction, okay. Learning to distinguish between homeostasis and equilibrium taught me to be a catalyst for change making without fear that any change to a systems balance will throw it perilously out of order. I've grown to love self advocacy and reform. Okay, again, sounds super smart, and I think there's some really good stuff working here. There was a little part of me that was like, Wait, do I do? I definitely could I say back to you what this is saying. And I don't know if I could right now, I think I'd have to read it like once or twice more to be able to say back. So there's like, something that maybe isn't coming through from me on a first read. And side note, we wanted to try and come through on a first read. Okay, this past summer, interning at a Cancer Care Clinic in Maui, these values were especially evident. And by the way, the values as I look back, it's like the values of self advocate. Advocacy and reform. As I shadow the offices clinical oncologist, I constantly metabolize new information, grasping the implications of low is it pronounced lymphocyte count? Okay, I think so. I constantly sorry, great, for example, or identifying tumors on a CT scan. However, when the oncologist fell ill, I had to pivot. I shadowed the office's nurse practitioner instead, and volunteered to do administrative work while engaging more with the nurses, giving me a more nuanced understanding of the clinic's approach to cancer care. Then when researching the effects of the Lahaina fire on access to healthcare on the island, our team proposed reforms to the island healthcare system that included a more comprehensive approach to disaster response and a focus on social determinants of health. Here's the ending through homeostasis. I've learned that stability doesn't necessarily entail symmetry, except for when it comes to my daily planner entries, of course. Okay, so here's a question that I'll often ask, what's the main thing you want them to get about you? Like, two questions, what's the main thing you want them to learn about you? And then second question is, what would you say is the thesis of this essay? So let's start with the first one. What do you want them to know about you? I


Cassidy  28:56  
want them to kind of see my nerdy side, that I really like biology and I'm genuinely interested in it.


Ethan Sawyer  29:02  
Great. I think I get that from this essay, and I think it's a really important thing to communicate in the application. Second thing, what would you say is the thesis for this essay?


Cassidy  29:14  
Probably in the middle of the essay, learning to distinguish between homeostasis and equilibrium taught me to be a catalyst for change making Okay, let's


Ethan Sawyer  29:22  
break them down, one at a time. Tell me. Tell us, in the simplest terms you can what homeostasis is.


Cassidy  29:27  
It's like maintaining a balance between your like, metabolic processes.


Ethan Sawyer  29:33  
Say more. Can you say a little bit more about that? It's like,


Cassidy  29:37  
not necessarily like, like, for example, like, if you're thinking about, do you know, like a gradient electro or, like, yeah, like a gradient between, like, a membrane, it's not necessarily, like, the goal isn't to have the same amount of molecules on both sides, like you need that gradient in order for them to move across the membrane. Which generates ATP, like, energy. So, yeah, you need that imbalance for the organism to be stable.


Ethan Sawyer  30:07  
Great. So here's the challenge with this one, because I because I think most folks will know what equilibrium is. The challenge here is going to be, do you keep it at a high level where it's like you need a little biology knowledge to kind of understand this, and you risk maybe the reader doesn't know exactly we're talking about, but maybe it's okay. Or do you kind of, I don't want to say, dumb it down, but simplify it enough so that everybody's on board. And I don't think there's actually on 100% right? So like idea for this. In other words, I don't think that everybody should simplify it so that, you know, so that an eight year old can understand it, but some students will choose to do that. So there's sort of a, as it were, a balance to be found here. So the note that I want to give you is, I really just want to ask this question. It was like, are you okay with maybe some people not getting it because it's smart, like, and you kind of go on the Hey, I'm going to risk maybe alienating a few folks, but sort of keep the integrity of it as it were, or do you want to try to simplify it even more so that someone even an eight year old, you know, or maybe not an eight year old, but let's say a smart 12 year old could get it. And I'm not actually going to tell you which, which way to go with it. I think right now, there's some stuff in here that like the reader may not get, and I'm getting most of it because I do have, you know, a basic understanding of biology. But I'm trying to put my mind in the reader of somebody who has zero knowledge or interest in, frankly, biology. So in terms of the prompt, though, it reflects on an idea or experience that makes you genuinely excited about learning. It seems like what the structure of the essay is doing is there is a concept that you're setting up at the start, and then the idea or experience that makes you genuinely excited about learning is the thing that happened next. And what ended up happening is you had a realization about it. So it seems like there are three parts of this essay. Now, the first part of the essay, I'm just going to do a little quick word count, where you're setting up the concept of, you know, equilibrium versus homeostasis is 122 so that's about half. And then the second part right now is about 128 so that's, that's precisely the second half. And then we've got this ending here. That's like the so what I want to propose that you actually expand a little bit on this third part, the so what, like the applications of this? And I think that's going to mean trimming the first part, which is like the setup of the concept, and then the second part, which is the here's the experience that made me really excited about learning, because I want to kind of put you back in that. So what space that I think you're really strong in of thinking about what these applications could potentially be? And I don't think it needs to be like, 1/3 1/3 1/3 but as I look at the three parts of this essay, it seems to me that we've got 122 words, 128 words, and then like 22 words for the ending. And by the way, that often happens when we're writing an essay and we realize, ah, I'm about to run out of words. I gotta wrap this thing up. So in other words, it's a perfect first draft, in that sense, because it's like, Ah, you, you know, probably were like, Okay, it's got to be 250 so what I'm going to suggest is, for part one here, is there? What is the essence of the concept? And you've got 122 words. Can you do it in 75 words? You know? Can you cut 50 words from this? You may not be able to. You may not end up at about 100 and for the second part of it, as you're doing the experience. And by the way, I love seeing you in there, getting engaged, getting involved, you know, doing some work. Can you trim that to its essence so that we get the sense of it? So take it from 128 again, to 75 because that's going to buy you about 100 words. And I want to see where your brain goes with this. What are the applications for that part? Three. Tiny note, but when you talk about the effects of the line of fire on access to healthcare on the island, our team proposed reforms to the island healthcare system, what I'm imagining it was this is sort of like a mental exercise where it's like, okay, well, what would you propose? I would say you want to make sure that it doesn't sound like we came in as outsiders and told them what to do with their healthcare system. And I don't think that that's what's happening here, but I think that there's sometimes, like, what we'll call like mission trip vibes, you know, in essays, where it feels like someone who is a relative outsider comes in and sort of like, saves the day. And so there might be a tweak of the phrasing if you end up talking about that, to talk about, because I think it is important to be like, here were some things that we ended up learning for ourselves, or ended up this was sort of like the final project was coming up with these things. And so I think it's just a trick of the language there so that it's not, it doesn't feel like we sure showed them, you know, or something like that.


Cassidy  34:36  
Okay, yeah, that makes sense. Okay,


Ethan Sawyer  34:39  
so let me just pause for a second, because I've said a lot, but how is this feedback landing so far? Yeah,


Cassidy  34:44  
that totally makes sense. And yeah, I like that. I'm going to be able to expand more on the so what? Because that's like my favorite part. So yeah, great. Thank


Ethan Sawyer  34:52  
you. And for anybody who's listening, and maybe your mid process, the essays, the so what is so dang important? I. Yeah, I want you to consider that it could be that all the cool stuff you've been writing about so far is really just the setup. And so this first part for you, Cassie, I think really is just the setup, like, just as like in the earlier in the chaplain essay that we read, that moment when you're at the locker and the person says you'll be fine, that's just the setup for the so what and the so what is really the juicy part, where we see you, up to you, I'm gonna use one of your words, where we see you, metabolizing. I think college admission officers and certainly other humans like me love to see, I love to see humans like metabolizing. I think that's what's that's the richness of this whole experience. Is like seeing the way that these experiences are working on you and what you're coming out with. So make room for metabolizing is essentially what I'm saying here. Okay, let's move on to the roommate essay. Virtually all of Stanford's undergrads live on campus write a note to your future roommate that reveals something about you or that will help your roommate and us get to know you better. Okay, so if we imagine these essays, so far, we've got these different identities that are manifesting on the campus in these cool ways. We've got your nerdy side. I heart biology All right. Now we get to know what's casting gonna be like as a roommate. Here's the essay draft, dear Rumi. Below are the top four most important things to know about me. Very, very important. I'm obsessed with everything barbecue. Favorite meal, Korean BBQ. Favorite pizza, BBQ chicken, favorite chip, Kettle cooked barbecue. As you can see, when I love something, I love it passionately. In italics, I hope you don't mind the smell of smoke and Tang. Though I'm admittedly not a great singer, I'm prone to laughing at my off key warbles, and I won't be offended if you are too. I unashamedly love belting my heart out. Nonetheless, you might hear me humming Camp Rock twos camp back down as I study Fred o Chem final or attempting to recreate Fergie's rendition of the national anthem. If, for some reason, my lovely vocal chords become distracting. Or if you're feeling particularly unpatriotic at the moment, feel free to stop me. I love fonts letters, despite drastic variation in shape and style, ultimately carry equal significance, an apt metaphor for equity. If you ever need a handmade birthday card, I know calligraphy. Have you heard of fiveable If you haven't, I'd be happy to expound upon the joys of studying with their practice quizzes. To you, nerdy as it may sound, I'm the biggest fan of active recall study methods and will champion them whenever possible. So any muttering about Krebs cycle that you overhear is me using Feynman technique, not a sign your roommate is crazy. Probably I can't wait to harmonize with you. Parentheses, literally and figuratively. Okay, you go first. What do you like about it? What do you think needs work? Go.


Cassidy  37:39  
I really like that. It's very, very honest. And I feel like it's a lot of the stuff that my friends will, like, really know about me. So it's like writing to a friend,


Ethan Sawyer  37:49  
great. What is other questions that you have about it, or things that you think need work?


Cassidy  37:53  
Yeah, I think the one about fonts kind of short. It's kind of like, like, what else is there? Like, yeah, like, I'm not sure where that's kind of going.


Ethan Sawyer  38:03  
Any questions that you have about it, or things that you wonder, like, does you know? Like, what would you what would you want? What? What, specifically, what do you want to know about this?


Cassidy  38:13  
This one's harder because it's like, like, it's about myself, and I feel like I know, like, so much more about myself. But like, I think maybe my values aren't really coming through as much. It's very, like, surface level things. So like, like, we hear that I'm not a good singer, but like, what does that mean? Why is that important to who you are? And then the studying with fiveable I think that's, like, kind of unclear. Like, what that means to you, and like, why that's important to you?


Ethan Sawyer  38:42  
Yeah, great notes. I mean, you, you can do this. I just need to ask you the questions, and then you're a great essay coach. So the two opportunities that I see in this essay, well, let me, let me frame it this way. Think of each of these paragraphs as if I said advent calendar. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Okay, so imagine that this essay is an opportunity to be like an advent calendar. And, you know, on an advent calendar. And if anybody hasn't seen these, you can Google these, but it's like a little, you know, tiny little doors that you open up each one before, you know. And for me, growing up, it was like leading up to the days for Christmas. So every day in December, you open up a different door. I do this with my daughter now, and every time we open one up, we're either gonna feel like, oh my gosh, that's cooler than I thought, or like, oh, another chocolate Hershey's kiss or something, you know. And so treat each of these like another little door that we get into Cassidy. And I think that the two opportunities that I see are number one to Yeah, give us some kind of value that tells us about some new dimension of you that we haven't gotten from elsewhere in the application. So each one is an opportunity to potentially show an unexpressed as yet value. The other place that you could potentially go for ideas is back to this roles and identities exercise, and you could go. Okay, for example, my cheerleader side hasn't really come through yet, and you're going to be a, you know, a good roommate. I want to have somebody who's going to cheer me on as my roommate. So maybe that's an opportunity for one of these paragraphs to come through the cheerleader identity, or let's see the question asker, ooh, well, in that nerdy paragraph. Maybe you could show some of those questions that you asked, for example. So two things to look at, and for the values list, just Google values exercise. You have the values exercise, but if you're listening, you can Google the values exercise, look at the values list and go, Okay, which other sides of myself would I want to come through here? So here's the lens then, and I'm going to put on it is for each of these paragraphs. I want to evaluate them briefly. For values so the first one, barbecue, stuff, fun. Do I learn something about a value? I don't know that. I do. You say passionate, you know, but you know, I think you're right that there's like, it could be something clear. Now, by the way, side note, not every single paragraph has to have a, you know, a centering value. But if I'm just rating this on like, is the value clear, and is it not altering your application? I'm like, maybe not so much. So maybe this one stays because it's fun and it's true to you, but if so, it's a pretty light one where I don't necessarily get a value or an identity, and that's by the way, coming from a fellow barbecue lover. I was reading this feeling like, oh my gosh, I can totally connect with this. But I don't necessarily know who I'm getting on the Stanford campus, if I read this, like, Oh, this is a person who has a lot of passion. I don't know, maybe kind of, but I'm basically knowing this is somebody who loves barbecue, you know, and that's, you know, it doesn't make everybody explode with, like, what the possibilities of that are. Now, you don't know this, but in most Stanford roommate essays, someone writes about singing poorly, and you couldn't have known that. Don't be embarrassed, because how would you know? But in most, and I would say, like more than 50% of essays, I think this is like it's there's just something about when you know, students imagine themselves doing something, or they're working to bring in some bring in self effacing humor. Often it comes through bad singing or bad dancing and sort of, like, making fun of self. So the quality I applaud, which is like, Hey, I'm willing to, like, you know, act like a fool or be silly and show that side of myself, and I like the specifics that you've used, but this just happens to be a common thing in Stanford essays. So I'm not saying definitely cut it. I'm just saying that if it's like on the spectrum of like things that are common versus things that are uncommon, this will probably be a little bit more on the common side. I love fonts. Now, what's the what's the value here? So you say that it's an apt metaphor for equity, if that's true, you know, ultimately, the shape and style carries equal significance. I think that's worth like spelling out a little bit more, so to speak. So I agree with you that this one could, I think could go further. Now, I don't know that it necessarily has to be connected to equity. It could be that your love of fonts connects to some other value, but I would so that so what? This one a little bit further. Now, on the spectrum of common to uncommon, I actually think this one's on the more uncommon side, or at least it is, in my experience. And if you could come up with a so what, or a few so what's that go in an interesting direction. I actually really like this one. And of the things that so far I see, of the three that you have so far, this one, I see the most potential in for the have you heard of fiveable one? I think that this is a little bit more like a chance to show the nerdy side. But I think that there's like, I want to, sort of ask you to, like, take another look at what are there other possibilities that you could just show something that you're nerdy about that maybe isn't necessarily related to biology or science, because we know that you love biology science, we've got a whole essay about it. Is there some other thing that you're a nerd for that you like, love geeking out on, because I think that that could sort of bolster this intellectual vitality side of you. So I don't know if it's something that you've read, something that you spend your time going on YouTube, rabbit holes down, but I think there's another cool opportunity. So the value, I think, is like intellectual vitality. But what is a specific way that you could show that I kind of like the number of things that you're showing four and you're kind of going whatever, 50 words on each. I think that works pretty well for a structure. Some students decided to go, like two things and focus on, you know, 100 words each. And some students decide to do like 20 things and do like a few words each. I like this approach, that you're taking four most important things to know about me. And I don't think, I mean, that's all the setup you need. It doesn't need to be even more quote, unquote clever than that, because the cleverness is going to come in the details and the execution here. So again, the two lenses, I want you to go into values, and I want you to go into roles and identities and see what other sides of yourself you could show and then say the thing. And then, so what these? So that you have maybe two. So what's maybe three? If you can get that many, it's a lot in 50 words. And I think that'll help give a little more depth and variety to both this essay and application. Awesome. That sounds good. Cool. All right, let's talk briefly about the short answers, and then we're going to invite Renee to talk to you a little bit about the your college list. Okay, so the remaining prompts are, and I'm just going to give you some quick tips on these. And each one of these, again, is sort of like an advent calendar. Yeah. So what is the most significant challenge that society faces today? Okay, now this is going to be kind of like a mini crash course on the Stanford essays. If anybody's listening to this in future years, double check to make sure these are still the prompts, because these were the prompts as of the time of this recording. So what is the most significant challenge that society faces today? Now, where students often go wrong with this is they choose a challenge that's way too big and broad and that blends in with many other student essays. So we're talking about things like poverty and racism and these huge, you know, problems. What I would say is find something think of this as is my answer going to be something that's more likely to help me blend in or stand out, and that's the needle to thread here, is like, find something that truly is a significant challenge, but relieve yourself the pressure of coming up with the most significant challenge, because that's a whole lot of pressure. And if you're beating your head against the wall, to be like, but is it the most significant challenge? I think you're going to get into trouble. So cross out the word most mentally and then come up with a truly significant challenge, or a meaningful and significant challenge that society faces. And I would say for your wording of your first sentence, it's going to be important for it not to be something that someone else could write. Because I think when you write that, when you write when, when I'm reading that first sentence, I either go, oh, that sounds interesting, or I go, I've read this one before. So even if you do have an interesting sentences that follow, if that first sentence is sounds common, or if like the first word is, like poverty, then I'm like, Okay, well, I'll read it, but it's, it's probably gonna, probably read it. Read it before. The second one asks, How did you spend your last two summers? Some students feel like they have to do complete sentences for this. You don't it's 50 words. Bullet points are fine. You can use Fragments. Treat it like a resume, you know, treat it like an additional information section. Some students do, like last summer colon and they list all the things this, you know, or two summers ago, and then last summer, I would say, also, don't feel like you have to put in only, quote, unquote academic stuff, you know, I want to encourage you to bring a range of sides of yourself so that you show how you hang out and how you you know wind you know how you wind down. They don't. You don't. This isn't just yet another place to pack it full of like, look at all the amazing things I've accomplished. So do we even some things that you did to like, chill the


next one, what historical moment or event do you wish you could have witnessed? So a mistake that students sometimes make with this prompt is they will go really broad, and they'll pick, like World War Two, and that's not a historical moment or event. That's a tons and tons of separate specific event. So do your best to find a specific moment. And like I said, for the first prompt, avoid something that many other people are going to choose, you know. So a popular one for this one is like the Big Bang, you know, the start of the universe is like a moment. So if there's something that you think someone else might pick again, that's going to maybe put you in the category of like common topics. So see if you can find something that doesn't have to be, again, the most important historical moment or the only the one that you wish you could have witnessed the most. But again, treat this like an advent calendar. You're trying to show some other side of yourself, and if maybe you know so, show some value or thing that you're interested in or curious about. The next one, there are five of these. Is the fourth one briefly elaborate on one of your extracurricular activities, a job you hold, or responsibilities you have for your family. This is one that Stanford has changed the word limit on over the years, and now they're down to 50 at least at the time of this recording. So I would just say Cassidy, pick the thing, and maybe you can brainstorm here a second. Pick one of the things that you feel like won't have been emphasized elsewhere in your application, but you want to make sure that you give a little air time to so let's just riff for a second. What are two or three things that you're like, Oh, these are activities that are important to me, but I don't know that they're really showing up in as full a way as they could. What ideas come to mind for that?


Cassidy  48:55  
The first thing I think of is ballet. I spend like so much time at the studio, but I haven't really talked about it that much. Great. What else


Ethan Sawyer  49:03  
comes to mind? Just so we have a couple examples here. Because something that I'll do, too is I'll invite students to, like, write three different versions of this, because only 50 words, and then just keep them on the dock, and then you can kind of see those there. And as the application is taking shape, you can ultimately decide, oh, you know, this ended up making it in somewhere else the application that can help you decide, because they're pretty short. So we got ballet. What else also,


Cassidy  49:24  
I'm a college and career center ambassador at my school, but I haven't really talked about that anywhere, great, but that's pretty important to me. Also, I talked about House of grace a little bit in my my personal statement, but that's also really significant extracurricular for me. Beautiful,


Ethan Sawyer  49:42  
great. Now I want you to, just because, again, it's 50 words, write one for each of these, and then you don't have to decide until, literally the week before you submit to be like, which one do you want to put in? Sometimes students write these and they go ooh, that actually turned into, like, a cool essay topic, or Ooh, that actually turned into something that I really want to put in my edition. Info section. So if you feel like, once you've written these and you're like, really having trouble cutting them, it could be something that you put elsewhere in the application, or, who knows, maybe it makes it into the roommate essay. So the last Stanford short answer is list five things that are important to you. Now this can sometimes be really overwhelming for students, because they're like, Oh my gosh. What do I choose? Again, take the pressure off for that being like the things that are most important to you, and treat this as like just more little advent calendar windows that we're opening up. And I want to encourage you to get really specific with these. So for these, they could point to values, but they don't all have to, so we'll kind of soften that pressure. But let me give you an example from a past student. So this is a student who was answering a different prompt, what inspires you, and she only had, you know, 35 words to do it, but here were her answers, and this is just giving an example of how specific I think you can be with this. So here's how she answered, what inspires you. She says, My abuelo naturalization documents, the smell of Petrichor, the feeling of placidity after meditating, seeing a sparkle in someone's eyes when they speak about something they genuinely love. So let's just go through those for a second. My abuelo naturalization documents. Now this is a student who was a first gen student, strong connection to family and culture, and who was interested in immigration, immigrant rights. And so this really points back to that. And it gives like more evidence that these are things that are really important to the student. So I can kind of really see the values in that. One, the smell of Petrichor, so that, I believe, is the smell of like after, you know, after it rains. And so there's no like value that I would necessarily ascribe to that I don't know mindfulness or nature or something like that. The next one is the feeling of placidity after meditating. What's the value there? I don't know something like calm or self care, maybe something like that, seeing a sparkle in someone's eyes when they speak about something they genuinely love, I don't know, help me with that one. What's the value there that you can see? If, if you know, what do you notice there?


Cassidy  52:07  
Like, cheerleading, maybe, honestly, like, yeah, yeah,


Ethan Sawyer  52:10  
yeah. There's something about, like, connection. There's something about witnessing others, helping others feel seen. Yeah, and it's, and it's, it's subtle, like, we kind of have to, have to look. Now we're doing kind of an intense analysis of this. But the reason I'm doing the intense analysis is that I want to just offer folks who are listening this, sort of like, A or B, of, can I spot a value or not? And if you can spot a value, or you think you can, it's probably a good one. And if you can't, then maybe keep digging. And you know, different people are going to ascribe different values to these. Okay, so zoom back, where have we been on this Stanford journey so far? And by the way, this sort of applies to other schools that you know students are applying to. You're not going to have as many essay opportunities. But I wanted to start, I wanted to do a big one, so that people could kind of see how this applies. So for Stanford, just to recap, you're going to talk about these three different, or maybe I don't know five different roles or identities, how they manifested in your life, and how they're gonna manifest on campus. And it's kind of like a why us essay. Then you're gonna talk about why biology. You've got this essentially. It's not like a y major essay, but it's like, here's this concept that I'm really interested in. Here's how it manifested in this cool experience I had when I was working in this, you know, clinical oncologist office. And then here's what I learned from that experience. You're gonna make a little more room for that. And then you got the roommate essay, where you're gonna kind of dig into the pieces and go, Okay, what are the, what are the different values that I could show? Are the identities? And then again, for these, for these short answers, it's just give us different sides of you so that we can kind of see the range of who you are. All right? That was a lot how you feeling?


Cassidy  53:47  
Feeling good? Yeah, that was awesome. Thank you so much. Cool.


Ethan Sawyer  53:50  
Okay, before we let people go, I want to just bring in Renee Ferriero, who is a counselor that I've worked with for a few years now, and she's awesome. She works at college as a guy, as a college counselor, and I want to just have her just kind of, I don't know, make a little cameo here and share you basically have shared some pre work, essentially some like, like an intake questionnaire of things that you're looking for in a college and I'd love to just bring in Renee to just share with you some ideas and some thoughts and some things for research. How does that sound Yeah,


Cassidy  54:21  
that sounds awesome. Okay, great.


Ethan Sawyer  54:23  
Renee, hi Ethan, thanks for having me. Well, I should say Welcome back, because you've been here a few times. Thank


Unknown Speaker  54:30  
you so much.


Ethan Sawyer  54:32  
So I'd love to just have you really just take over here for a few minutes and share a little bit about, you know, some of the pre work or sort of intake stuff that Cassidy has filled out and give us a sense of what's happening inside your brain and ideas that you might have for Cassidy in terms of potential schools and programs that she might be into. Okay,


Speaker 1  54:52  
well, hi, Cassidy. It's nice to meet you today, and I enjoyed reading through you filled out. Cassidy filled. About a college list questionnaire, which gives me a lot of information about the things that she's looking for in a college and what she's been thinking over the past several months. I also was able to look at her transcript, which she's a straight A student, which, I'm not surprised, great student. And she already is coming with a list of schools that she's kind of settled on to apply, and has them categorized based on like reach schools, which we would classify as somewhere lower than 30% admit rate. We have some super selective or reach schools which might be like single digit admit rate schools. And then we have our match schools, our target schools which are going to be, you know, 3540 50% admit, rate, something like that. And all of this is taken within the context of the students profile as well. And then you have likely schools on your list, which are schools that you feel pretty confident, and I would also feel pretty confident of your ability to get in. So when I review everything, I'm kind of looking for what the parameters are that you give as far as what you're looking for in a school, not every school is going to have every single thing, so even some of the schools on your own list don't fit your exact parameters, right? Because you want to be I think I heard you say that you wanted to be in Southern California, but yet you do have Stanford on your list, and you have Berkeley on your list. So sometimes we make exceptions, right for schools that we really, really want to go to, but you're mostly looking for Southern California. Is that correct?


Cassidy  56:29  
Yes, yeah,


Speaker 1  56:32  
okay, okay, that's what I thought. So I think you said medium to large size school would be preferred urban to suburban area in the setting. And definitely want to stay in California. Now, if we were going to expand outside of California, this could be a much longer conversation, but I stayed within your parameters of wanting to stay closer or within the state that you were looking for schools that might give merit aid and possibly some need based aid. So I kept that in mind while while looking at that that you were looking for school where you could get involved in Christian Fellowship, whether that would be a school that was religiously affiliated or not, either way that you're looking for that and that you're looking to possibly major in biology, biochem or biopsychology. And so with all of that in mind, I did when I looked at your list, and I think you guys already talked about the list on the last episode. Is that correct?


Ethan Sawyer  57:24  
Just briefly? Yeah, we went over it just briefly, and sort of read through some of the schools, but it was only, you know, couple minutes.


Speaker 1  57:29  
Okay, so what I noticed with the with the list, and I think you have pretty much every you see on your list, which is a great strategy, because other than having to pay the fee, you don't have to do too much more on the application itself. But with those schools, you have, you know, you have your automatic reach schools, because you have UCLA and UC Berkeley, those are harder to get in. And then you go to down the list, and you get to Santa Cruz and Riverside, which have pretty decent admit rates. So those are in your likely column, and you've all you also have Stanford and USC, which those are going to be reach schools, and you had Chapman, pepper, dine and Biola as likely schools. And I agree with all of that. Where I'm a little bit on the fence is the target list, because you have UC Davis, UC Santa, Barbara. And those could be they could be a target, they could be a match type school, but they also might fall more in the selective category. Now I actually, today got brand new statistics for in state admit rates for this past year. So UC Davis in state was 37% so that's that actually is probably a target. And then Santa Barbara is like, right on the cusp. It's 32% I mean, you're a good student, so that could make it more of a target, right? It depends on the student there, but they're little iffy sometimes when they're right on the cusp. And then you had Cal State Long Beach, which technically has a 47% Emmy rate. But the Cal State schools are usually, if you apply in your local area, you have a much better chance of getting in because they try to serve the surrounding area. So Long Beach is one of the schools, one of the Cal State schools that has all majors impacted. In fact, pretty much the list of schools that has all majors impacted are. Have them written down here, Cal, poly, slo, which you have on your list, Long Beach and San Diego, state those, those three are on your list, and they're all impacted. Me, all majors are impacted, so you have to keep that into consideration. And then. And


Ethan Sawyer  59:34  
will you, Renee, will you tell folks who are listening who don't know what impacted majors means? Will you just give a little quick definition of what that means?


Speaker 1  59:41  
Yeah, so an impacted major means that there's really just not enough room for the demand. So they may have, you know, every school is going to have a different target number for the, you know, entering class, for biology majors, or for, you know, civil engineering majors or what have you. But at certain schools in the Cal system, they'll have. Majors that are impacted, meaning there's not enough room, so they're going to it's going to be a more selective major. But at Cal Poly, slo Fullerton, Long Beach, San Diego State and San Jose State, all majors are impacted. So on the website, on the Cal State website, you can actually look up by school which majors are impacted. And for most schools, it's just like maybe three or four different majors, but those five are very popular, so they tend to have all majors impacted. So what they say specifically on their website is applying to your local Cal State location is always a good idea, since students who apply from areas nearest a university are given priority admission, and that is especially true for the most sought after universities or those that are designated as impacted. So when you're applying to a Cal State Long Beach, even though it has a 47% admit rate, it's a little bit deceiving, because you're coming from the Northern California area. And the other thing about the Cal State schools is many of them, the majority of them, are not really considered residential campuses as much. There are more or less commuter campuses, so they have less housing. So that also is a factor when you're coming from far away, right? Because you don't get to go live at home and commute if you're going to be, you know, coming from Northern California down to Long Beach. So those are just a couple things I noticed. And so when I'm looking at the list, I you know, and I think that you probably have talked about this, and I know we've, you've probably heard this before, casting about having a balance list, which is why you probably selected schools in different categories like that. But I'm a little worried that you might have a lot of super selectives or selective schools, and then you have a good number of likelies, but you don't have as many, what I would consider like good target schools for you. So when that happens, you could be really lucky and get into several selective schools. I've seen that happen. But if, for some reason, you don't, then you're going to be left with the likelies, which may not be a bad thing for you, because I think you've chosen some really good schools there. And I think you, you know, it sounds like from I listened to both of the episodes that were recorded earlier, and it sounds like you've done your research. And I think you would be happy at Chapman or Pepperdine or any of those schools. But what I tried to do is I made, I'm going to make, like, four solid recommendations that I feel kind of match what you're looking for, and would give you an either another likely or a match. And then I have a couple, what I would call wild cards, because you don't really need more selective schools. But there's a couple out there that I just want to mention. You probably have already thought of these. So the first one I want to mention, which you probably, well, I wouldn't say, probably, we'll see if you've heard of St Mary's College. Have you heard of it? Yeah, I've heard of


Cassidy  1:02:41  
it, but I actually haven't really looked into it.


Speaker 1  1:02:45  
Okay, so the reason I'm mentioning this school, it's it's up your area in the in the northern part in San Francisco, it is a colleges that change live school, which counselors tend to love, people tend to love. And it is kind of what it sounds like there are schools that have been rated this. Now, it was a book that was written, I'm not sure now how many years, but a good number of decades, I think ago, this man wrote the book, and he had, I think 40 schools in there. They had just recently added two new members to the list. But there's about 44 schools across the country that are categorized as colleges, that change live schools, and they are, they tend to be a bit smaller. This school has 4000 undergrad so I think that would be okay for your medium sized school, but they you would get so much individual attention, and they just have a lot of really great attributes. So for those who haven't heard of this, I would definitely you could go to the website or pick up the book and and read about colleges that change live schools, but it's a Catholic affiliated school. It has a very high admit rate. 88% is what I could find, and they meet about 75% of demonstrated need, but about over 90% of the students receive a pretty decent merit aid package as well. 24,000 is about the average. So that's it's not bad. And a lot of the ctcl schools are pretty good with merit eight. So it might be one to check out as another backup. It's closer to where you are, not necessarily in Southern California. But I thought I'd throw that one out. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah,


Cassidy  1:04:18  
that sounds awesome. I actually, I I haven't really heard about it. I've maybe heard the name in like passing, but, yeah, that's really good to be exposed to that. Thank you. I'll look into it more. Thank you.


Speaker 1  1:04:29  
You're welcome. And the other thing about that school that I didn't mention is they actually have a biopsychology program, an actually dedicated biopsychology program. So you might that might intrigue you a bit. The second school that I thought I would mention is LMU, or loyal Mary mount University, which is in LA. Have you heard of that school?


Cassidy  1:04:49  
Yes, I have looked into that one a little bit, actually.


Speaker 1  1:04:54  
Okay, the reason I've selected it, it's, you know, it's medium sized, like 7300 under. Grads located in LA, it's actually categorized as a good return on investment. They have a pretty decent admit rate for early action, which, you know, not a big turnaround time based on the fact that we're in almost mid September, but I think you could get it done, and that's about a 52% admit rate, and they meet about 70% of need based aid or demonstrated need, and they give about 80% of students get some merit aid as well. They have they're known for really great pre med advising. They have good undergraduate research. And with the students who graduate and go to med school, they're the school that they tend to feed to a bit is UC Davis med school. So I tried to look up some of that as well for for the schools that had some med school numbers. So that might be one. It's really in your area, medium size, has the, maybe the Christian fellowship that you're looking for, and so forth.


Cassidy  1:05:55  
Okay, yeah, that sounds good. I didn't know that actually, that they had a good pre med advising. So maybe I'll look into it more.


Speaker 1  1:06:03  
Okay, all right, and another one, but this is more up your way. Is Santa Clara, which I'm sure you've, you've seen or heard about, right? Yeah, I


Cassidy  1:06:11  
do. I am. I actually live really close to Santa Clara, so I've been on campus a few times.


Speaker 1  1:06:16  
Well, now you did mark that you wanted to be close to home. So this is as close as you can get, I think. But it does have, you know, it's a good it's a really good school. Over the past several years I've had it's very popular, and it's me a mid size, 6000 students, also Catholic. Jesuit admit. Rate is about 47% really depends on the major there as well. They have rigorous science programs, great psychology programs, and they send a lot of students. A lot of their med school students are going to the University of Washington, is what I found. The one thing about Santa Clara, though, is that they do consider demonstrated interest. So if that's a school that you think, well, maybe I should put it back on my radar, you need to be engaging with them kind of quickly to make sure that they know that you are interested. Because sometimes, if you don't do any engagement, you've heard of the term demonstrated interest before, I'm sure, right? Yeah, yes. Okay. So a lot of these schools, they just want to make sure that you've done your research and that you know that this is a good fit before applying. Because sometimes students will just go into the common app, create an account, and they're like, Oh, I heard of my friend so and so is applying to Santa Clara. I'll just add it on. But when colleges are looking to admit students, they want to admit students that they think are actually going to come. So demonstrated interest can be part of the process for some schools. Santa Clara happens to be one of them. And then another school that this is the fourth school that I think would be good to add is University of San Diego, also in Southern California, obviously, mid size, 5700 students admit, rate 53% so also, that would be a really good, good one for you. They meet, you know, about 80% of need, and they give about half of the students some merit aid. So I'm not sure exactly about the total cost of attendance that it would end up with for that, but it's worth checking into. And they have excellent biology and pre med advising there. They send, they tend to send some of their or the largest number of students for med school go to the Mayo Clinic, which is kind of interesting if you're interested in that. And they're another school that does consider demonstrated interest. So you'd have to keep that in mind as far before I go to my two wild cards. Have you been keeping in mind demonstrated interest for some of your other schools on your list? Yeah,


Cassidy  1:08:30  
the common data set. I looked at them for all the schools, and I think I saw for Chapman and Biola. Yeah, those two. Those


Speaker 1  1:08:37  
are the two. Yep, she is good. Did your homework. Okay, so I have two more here, and I'm going to call these wild cards for a couple of reasons. The first one is Occidental, and the reason I'm calling it a wild card is because it may be too small, because it's about 2000 and you said you really didn't want small, but it is in LA they have great pre med advising, and the one thing about them that might make you reconsider the small is that they meet 100% of demonstrated need, so and they also give merit. So that might be a good like cost effective strategy. They do consider demonstrated interest as, like a very important factor there. So that would be another one that if you decided to add it you need to, you know, quickly start engaging with them. What are your thoughts on occidental I'm sure you, you've probably looked at them. I


Cassidy  1:09:25  
totally have. That was actually one I was really like, back and forth on, because I really did like the school, but I wasn't sure about its size. But it's good to hear that they have good pre med advising and stuff. Do the students like filter into certain med schools like the other ones you've talked about,


Speaker 1  1:09:42  
yeah, this one, it tends to be UCLA, okay, so, and then the thing is, you know, it's a smaller school, but you're in Las Vegas, not like you're out in the middle of, you know, the desert. There's a lot of people in LA so I don't think you would feel like, wow, there's no one around, you know, and there's a lot of colleges. In the LA area. So I think it would be a good one to consider, though the admit rate is about 39% for regular decision, so it would be more of a target, not a likely but still worth thinking about. And then the last wild card. And that reason I'm calling this one a wild card is because it's not necessarily, I think you mentioned somewhere that you wanted to be kind of near the coast, but Scripps, which is part of the Claremont schools, and I believe, did somebody in your family go to one of the claremonts?


Cassidy  1:10:29  
My dad went to one for graduate school.


Speaker 1  1:10:33  
Okay, all right, I did see that. So all the claremonts are excellent for pre med advising, that that's one thing, but Scripps happens to be one of the best for pre med advising, and they actually have a really decent admit rate for a regular decision. The others are pretty difficult to get in unless you you're gonna apply ed, and they meet 100% of demonstrated need as well, and they give merit. And so even though it's a small school, it's part of the five school Consortium, or the Claremont Consortium, and there's five schools in that consortium, so there's a total of about 8000 students. But I said it's a wild card, because it's an all women's Women's College, which I wasn't sure how you felt about, and it's not necessarily on the coast. It's about an hour, I believe, outside of LA. So that might not be a good you know location fit for you, but I think it's one to consider, you know, based on some of the other factors. So that's my input for you. Yeah,


Cassidy  1:11:29  
what are your thoughts? That all sounds awesome. Yeah, thank you so much. Just to get, like, the insight on the stuff, like the pre med advising, especially that I didn't really know, and, like, didn't really know where to find that's awesome. Thank you.


Ethan Sawyer  1:11:43  
Yeah, thanks, Renee. It's an interesting situation because, you know, it's sort of rare that we have a student who's, like, done so much as much prep as you've done, Cassidy with your, I think, with your mom, you know, you've done so much research that when you came in, I was sort of like, Oh, are we gonna be able to help? And, you know, of course, Renee has got encyclopedic knowledge, so I was able to help. So Thanks, Renee. Thanks so much for your for your work and for your for your welcome.


Speaker 1  1:12:06  
And you know, I'm gonna be following you now on the podcast to find out what happened. So you know I'll be on standby if you need me.


Cassidy  1:12:16  
Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.


Ethan Sawyer  1:12:18  
Renee will also follow up with, you know, some notes and things for you to check out, like a little definitely paid report for you so you have that.


Speaker 1  1:12:26  
Yes, I definitely will. Thanks for having me on. I


Ethan Sawyer  1:12:29  
appreciate you. It's so cool to see your brain work work through this. Renee, so thanks.


Speaker 1  1:12:34  
Well, it's fun for me. So I'm, I'm a little crazy. Cassidy, you're probably like, I've done this once, and I never want to do it again. But calcity, it was great to meet you. I'm going to actually share the document that I typed up so you have it. And then if you have questions, feel free to reach out to me, because I'm, you know, an email away. So happy to help.


Cassidy  1:12:57  
Thank you so so much. I really appreciate it.


Ethan Sawyer  1:13:00  
Thank you. Bye. Renee, all right. So Cassie, how how was that?


Cassidy  1:13:05  
It was awesome. I really enjoyed meeting with her. She's so sweet, and I really appreciate that she's able to give me these insights into colleges that I I wouldn't have thought to, like, look for on my own, like that whole certain schools feeding into different med schools, like that. Was really cool to hear about


Ethan Sawyer  1:13:23  
Cool. Well, I know you're a researcher, so I will balls in your court now with the stuff that Renee sends you to do research, I'll be curious to see if in a month, you have different schools on your list or not. And Yeah, happy writing, and I'll see you in a few weeks. Okay,


Cassidy  1:13:36  
thank you. Bye. You Thank you.


Ethan Sawyer  1:13:43  
Thanks again, friends for listening. The next time we talk to Cassidy, we'll be reviewing her almost done document, and I'll be walking you through how do you actually know if your application is ready to submit? If you want more college admission tips, subscribe to our YouTube channel, where we release content regularly and don't forget to turn on notifications, because that's how you'll know when the new content comes out. Or you can follow us on Instagram, where we release content even more regularly. The best way, though, is to get on our email list by opting into pretty much anything on our website at college sa guy.com See you soon and stay curious you


Transcribed by https://otter.ai