118: Who is the College Essay Guy?

Ethan Sawyer  0:00  
Music.


Hello, friends. Ethan, saw your College Essay. Guy here, my goal is to bring more ease, joy and purpose into the college application process. Welcome to the College sa guy podcast where that's what I do. How well I interview amazing people with amazing minds and amazing people who have turned their attention to helping students get into college, and then I break down their genius, or, you know, their skills, into a series of practical, actionable steps you can take, whether you're applying to college yourself or helping someone else apply. So this is part three of my four part series with Ted Dorsey, aka tutor Ted. And on the last two episodes, I interviewed Ted once, just getting to know him, and then getting some awesome practical tips from him. On this episode, Ted turns the tables and he interviews me. So this will be a different episode than you're used to if you've listened before. And on this first one, you'll just hear him basically allowing folks to get a chance to get to know me better. So we talk about things like how I ended up becoming the College Essay Guy, and there's a little spoiler that that wasn't actually my plan ever since birth, what applying to college was like for me going through that process, how I learned the importance of asking good questions based on the way I was raised. Why I never, ever tell students to quote, unquote, write in their voice, how I think the writing essay can actually change your image and your like, your self image, the way you see yourself and indeed, your life, and I share a little bit about what it's like working with me one on one, because Ted was curious. So all this and more you'll find on this episode, help you enjoy. So let's see the short the really short version is that's just what I've always wanted to be ever since I was born. You know, I really just came under the womb. It's


Amie Dorsey  1:54  
changed. Wait a second, no,


Ethan Sawyer  1:55  
you know, basically, you know, I studied, I mean, so to go way back for a second. So I'll give like, the minute long version, but the but I'd say that one of my core values, and I'm big on core values, as you know, is is connection. And as a missionary kid, growing up and moving around a lot, I really valued getting to know people fast. And I think that's something that I had to learn how to do, because I went to like, 13 schools and so that serves me. Now, I wouldn't have thought at the time, therefore I want to be a College Essay Guy, but that was like an early piece is like getting to know people fast and having deep conversations, just something that I've always loved. And I got into writing, you know, in high school, and studied English in college, and then studied screenwriting in college, and really thought that that's what I wanted to do. And then I got a job helping students with their essays. Out of college. I went to Northwestern and when I graduated, I was like, looking for a job. Got this job helping students with essays, but I was meanwhile helping my best friend with his, you know, like, where he were working on screenplays, because he was enrolled at USC for for screenwriting, and I just started to find that a lot of the structural stuff that I was learning about storytelling applied in the realm of college essays. And students were writing better stories, more interesting stories. And then over the next few years, I started to get more into counseling and being like, wow, this is really, really cool stuff. And I got a certificate in college counseling, and just found so much more fulfillment. And I guess at a core level, like I feel like this meets my deeper needs for community. I think this builds community with, you know, when it's two people together, or in the workshop setting, when I'm guiding students through essay workshops, there's a great, powerful thing that happens when students tell their stories. And you know, it's an opportunity to just ask folks big questions and then encourage them to go deep. So I just find that it's, it's really aligned with what I want to do in this world. Part of my Myers bricks, is an intuitive feeler, helping people realize their potential. So there's an alignment there as well. It's,


Amie Dorsey  3:58  
I think it's really eerie how our backgrounds, you know, overlap without us ever having met, you know, to plan that just because I wanted to be a writer, too, and moved out to LA to be a screenwriter. And I think that I also was doing that to seek connection, you know, I think I was trying to seek connection with millions of people. And then when I started tutoring, which is basically my sideline. And by the way, this is not an episode about me? But I just can't help but throw this in. I, I found the direct connection really appealing, you know. And I shouldn't say direct immediate connection, you know, just being in the room with somebody and having an impact right away. So, yeah, I think connections are really great, great word and a great term. And anyway, that's, let's go back to talking, about


Ethan Sawyer  4:40  
you. It's okay. You're interesting. I like you, and I'm


Amie Dorsey  4:44  
just getting out of order here. You know what? I mean, it's a disorganized podcast. So what was your experience doing the work that you do now with high school students back in the day? I mean, did you get the support that you could have used? Was someone with someone connecting with you? Back in the day.


Ethan Sawyer  5:00  
I mean, the first thing was kind of a cynical thing that popped in my head, which is, like, who did? And what I mean by that is, like, I don't think that, you know even what, when this is 1998 that I was applying to college. So, you know, 20 years ago, there weren't as many resources out there, and the Internet was had just come into being. So it was harder, I think, to find, you know, resources like the ones that you know, these podcasts. So no in the short answer. And also, I went to a public school, whereas one counselor for, you know, 2300 kids or whatever, and so, you know, but she did casually say, oh, you should think about Northwestern so sometimes it's those high level


Amie Dorsey  5:38  
things you could really gotta be paying attention, you know, yeah.


Ethan Sawyer  5:42  
But if there's only, like, two interactions or three interactions, and it was a really, you know, she's a really sweet woman, but I, you know, did the application process on my own totally waited to the last minute. I remember being on a chat room, because these chat rooms had just come into being a girl who I'm still in touch with these today, but like going back and forth between chatting with this new, interesting girl who lived in on the on the West Coast. I was in Miami at the time and and doing my applications, and I finally got it done. But you know it No, I would have loved to have spent a lot more time, because I see there's so much potential for growth. And I didn't do any growth in high school. Now I just, you know what, for me, what growth looked like in high school. Was doing theater, spending time with that community, and, you know, having lots of long phone conversations. So


Amie Dorsey  6:29  
it's like organic growth. You were growing your organic arts, right? Like no one was really tending it,


Ethan Sawyer  6:34  
growing wild and free. That's a nice way of putting it. Oh, thanks.


Amie Dorsey  6:38  
That's, you know. Do you feel like you missed out on something? Do you wish that you'd had you back in the day? I mean,


Ethan Sawyer  6:44  
that's a really trippy thought. You've blown my mind. What would that be like to work with me? I think I would be two. We would butt heads. Yeah, that's hilarious. Two control freaks just going at it. No, I think that people don't actually know that I'm a control freak until they start to, like, try to co present with me at a conference. Ethan wants to, like, you know, write all the emails, and he wants to put together the Prezi, and it's great, but, like, anyway, but yeah,


Amie Dorsey  7:11  
man, by the way, group projects like, that's pretty much the bane of everybody's existence. Who loves group projects,


Ethan Sawyer  7:17  
right? Exactly. I think that I would have liked to have been asked some of the questions that I asked students. I think that those would have been useful and productive. And I think that there a couple exercises that I think would have been really that I would have really dug it's so funny to think about this, right, like, which exercise would I've been into at 17? I think that some of the exercises that I'm doing today are exercises that that I would have really liked and, and so, yeah, I just think that there are these interactions that we have with folks, and these can happen in 10 minutes. Or, you know, I'll give you an example, like when I was in college, I was at a cafe one night, and I was reading the brothers karamaz Off and on the other hand, like, literally in my other hand, I had Rumi. And so I was the poet, the 12th century mystic, and I was kind of taking breaks from my heavy Russian lit to, like, read some poetry. And there was this guy who just kind of was noticing me, and I was noticing him. And this my friend of mine came and sat down, and she smiled, and she had some reading too. So she just sat. And as I was walking to get my tea, I stepped over the man, and he just stopped me, and he goes, You love her, don't you? I said, Whoa. I mean, I do, but you know why? And he just says, come here. And he just, like, kind of like, had me, like, sit down in front of him, and over the next, I don't know, 15 minutes, he taught me to meditate, and it changed my life. And he just led me through basic visualization of breathing in through my, you know, head, breathing out through my heart, and really simple stuff. And he told me some stuff that I have never forgotten to this day. He, like, gave me the definition of suffering this. So I think that there are these moments in our lives where, when we're open enough, and I was definitely open enough at that time in my life to receive and I think there are certain things that we can do to put ourselves in a receptive state that the right question or the right provocation can be life changing. And I would say that in the college essay experience and process, I think part of the work that I try and do is to put students in a situation where they feel safe, yeah, willing to open up, and then the way that, in a way that hypnosis works. So I'm certified in hypnotherapy, guys, wow, wow. Okay, I did not know that. Yeah. Well, hypnotherapy is about getting into a relaxed state so that we become more suggestive. And there are sometimes in movies like nefarious ends that that leads towards people squawking like chickens. But


Amie Dorsey  9:42  
by the way, sorry, quick sidebar, hypnosis not used as a plot device nearly as much as it was in like, the 80s. In the 80s, it was like every other episode, you know, not really that present anymore.


Ethan Sawyer  9:53  
Anyway, yeah, no, that's fine, but that movie Get Out, did you see that? Oh, oh


Amie Dorsey  9:57  
yeah, yeah, totally yeah. Oh yeah. That's right, and that's


Ethan Sawyer  9:59  
kind. The example of, like, the bad use of hypnosis, not what I'm trained to do, or the imagery, or in the hypnosis scene was pretty intense. Yeah, great in the sunken place, yeah, check out. Get out. If you guys have, oh, it's so good. It's such a good movie anyway. But in terms of the way that it relates to my work, you know, teach, leading a student into a guided meditation where they can begin to creatively think about, you know, the details of their life and experiences they may not have thought about, and to get them to start to think about them potentially in different ways, and to like the way I describe it as like, to objectify their experiences, and I can explain more what I mean by that, but to think of their stories and their experiences as separate from them, so that we can start to make different meanings out of them and to see that we can like I like I like to say, like, do stuff with them. So, you know, one of the exercises I do is I have students go through this essence objects exercise, where they basically think about concrete objects that represent deeper parts of who they are. It's a way of, one, getting us to starting practice thinking visually. But but two, it's like I said, thinking about our stories as separate from us, not as who we are, because we are so identified. I'm so identified with my story. I think it's me and


Amie Dorsey  11:06  
we're protective of ourselves. You know what I mean when you're telling a story about something that's not inherently like connected to you, you may be a little bit more forthcoming, a little more honest, potentially, potentially


Ethan Sawyer  11:16  
more honest and more willing to to flex it. What I mean by that is like we have this groove, like I am this story. Let's say, for example, that the dominant narrative, this is some narrative therapy talk, but like the dominant narrative, or is I am, I can't do it right, or I am not worthy. And that's a groove that gets well worn. You know, for some folks, over time, what narrative therapy does, and what I think the college essay process, it starts to question that. It's like, oh, well, are there, are there places in your life where you have been able to be successful? Let's talk about those. And in talking about those, and in the process of the college essay, doing 10 drafts, writing about those situations where you really did achieve something, starts to what's called thickening the marginalized story. So for folks who like that, sounds like, what does that mean? So marginalized meaning the story that we don't tell as often, the story that I can do it, and we start to thicken it by just repeating the story, giving it details, giving it life, giving it images. Then we start to create a narrative that can be in some cases, more useful, not only for the college essay process, but just for our walking, waking life well.


Amie Dorsey  12:21  
And there's even, like a neurological phenomenon associated with that, that the more, the more you think it, the more that those pathways are worn, you know. So that's, that's kind of the therapeutic element of it. Absolutely,


Ethan Sawyer  12:30  
we're rewiring our brains. And I call it soul architecture, because we get to basically go, Well, how is this thing constructed? And ask, Do I want it to be constructed that way. Now, with every student, we don't always go that deep. You know, it takes a bunch of one on one sessions to really do a ton of that, but in a workshop setting, I think it's possible to sort of look at the architecture of things and then to begin to structure things in a slightly different way. And that can happen in like, 15 minutes.


Amie Dorsey  12:56  
Yeah, yeah. It's miraculous when, when those you have that, that moment of revelation, because that's what you're kind of building towards, right? It's like, towards, right? It's like you set the stage, you make the you know, you help the student feel safe, and sort of, I guess, safe is the word for it. And then you're waiting for that moment of realization. And that can happen instantaneously. And like you said, it can happen in 15 minutes, if, if everything goes kind of perfectly according to plan. And then it can also happen over the course of several months, right? You know, or not happen at all in some cases, you know, yeah. And


Ethan Sawyer  13:30  
then it's like, what are we, you know? And sometimes when I'm working with a student, it's like, we're, we're working on a particular story or a particular narrative, yeah, and we just go, we get a few sessions, and it's like, this is not it? Like, what else we got? And then we try, you know, we just switch, switch tracks, as it were, and write about something else. Because I don't think that we all have just one story, you know, that's really pushed a lot in the college essay world, like, what is your story? And I'm guilty of that too, even asking, what is your deepest story? But there are so many stories that each of us could tell. And the question is, what's a really good story that's going to tell me some different things about you?


Amie Dorsey  14:03  
Yeah, that's really interesting. What is your story? I almost find that question offensive. Why? Well, it's so reductive, you know, it's that basically like that there is, there is one thing, and you need to find it, and it just, it just diminishes the richness. And, you know, complexity, complexity, yeah, you know, that's, that's, yeah, what is your deepest story implies that there are multiple stories. So I'm not, I'm not offended by that. Okay, good. There's


Ethan Sawyer  14:25  
another one that triggers me is that, what is, you know, writing in your voice, okay, as though we have a single voice that we, you know, write in. And I think that's what, that's what that implies. I don't think it's true. I think that, you know, like TS Eliot said that, you know, he do the police in different voices? You know, we have all these different voices and ways that we can communicate. And as an actor, I know that that's true like you know that. I know that there are many different parts of me that I can access, and so I never say to a student, it needs to be in your authentic voice, in part, because I just remember hearing that as a kid and being like, what does that even mean?


Amie Dorsey  14:57  
Now it's hard to know what your authentic voice. Says when you're a kid to


Ethan Sawyer  15:01  
like, be like, you know, I don't know to say when I heard when I would hear that as a kid, I'd be like, what does that even mean? Or like, write what you know is other bad writing advice, because I'm like, What do I know? Like, what do I actually know? Like, it just sends me into this like, existential tailspin of, like, what does it mean to know something? So those are some other things that I don't say to students, because I think it kind of it gets them way up in their heads. Yeah? And I don't know that that's the most productive place to write from. I think that there's another place that we can write from, and of course, or not, of course, but it's a different part of the brain. But I think I'm trying to get students into their heart, into their


Amie Dorsey  15:38  
gut, yeah? Well, let me ask you a question, because I think my podcasts tend to be, I tend to be guilty of going to the abstract, and because it's really fun to live in the abstract, I love the abstract, and I would love to take this conversation to the concrete. So, do you have, you have a story you could tell about a kid and, you know, a particular sort of like journey. I mean, I obviously these students are writing personal essays. So you don't you may or may not want to share anything. No, it's just revealing. But, yeah, I'd love to just put some details to


Ethan Sawyer  16:07  
this. Yeah, so one thing that's cool about this work is that I never know what the homework is going to look like. And what I mean by that is I think students often expect that they're going to get writing homework, and that's often true, and we do action items and deadlines, et cetera. But the other, you know, sometimes the conversation will go in a particular way where I'll give you an example. So I was working with a student who was kind of blocked in her essay and not sure what she wanted to write about, and in one of our early sessions, I said, what's going on? And she's like, nothing. It's just personal stuff. And I was like, Well, can we talk about it? Because, you know, this is a personal statement, and she's like, well, it's just a thing with my sister. And she opened up about this relationship with her sister that was really troubling her, and how she'd felt really judgmental of her sister. Her sister had special needs, and she didn't feel like she could, she didn't she felt angry at her, and didn't feel like she could be angry with her. And I said to her, after we talked about this for a while, I said, Here's your homework. I want you to apologize to your sister. And she said, powerful what I said, I want you to ask yourself, What could I apologize to her for? And start there and see where that goes. And she was taken aback initially, but then kind of warmed up to the idea. And I said, Are you down for that? And she's like, okay. And I think she was kind of wondering, well, what does that do with my essay? And I just said, I just have a feeling that there might be something there, because it seems like this relationship with her has is connected to a lot of things within you. So so she did, so this, this is a situation where, so she came back, like, two weeks later, and she's like, I did it. I said, Okay. She's like. I was like, How'd it go? She's like, it was like, Wow. You know, she started to talk about how her relationship in the last couple weeks with her sister had kind of shifted. Something had happened. And then she went on and on to talk about it. I sensed, okay, there's something here. And I said, I think this might be an interesting topic to write about, because she was willing to do the work. Willing to do the work. She was willing to essentially, kind of create a turning point in her story, because this thing was blocking her, and that's the first half, or the first third of the story. But I was curious to see, would she be willing to process this in an active way? And so she did, and she ended up writing a great story about this relationship with her sister, like I said, that revealed core values and qualities and positive qualities, like the ability, ability to humble yourself and to be vulnerable with somebody that you feel really close to. And it was beautiful, beautiful story. So that's, that's a kind of an example of, you know, weird homework. That's


Amie Dorsey  18:36  
amazing, that that's a really remarkable story. I love that I love that the work itself ended up becoming part of the essay. You know, that's That's fascinating. And I think it takes a real open mind to make that happen, and


Ethan Sawyer  18:47  
it doesn't always like another example last year, a student came in and I said, How are you doing? And she's like, I'm just really stressed. And I could see that she was full, like, on the verge of tears. And I said, well, let's just, can we just sit together for a few minutes and just maybe we'll just, like, breathe. I'll just breathe. I'll just put on a little little music, and we'll just like, just breathe for a few minutes. And she's like, Okay, I said, and I have this song that's called the most relaxing song ever, and I want that you just Google it. It's Marconi union. It's amazing. So we put on this song, and I led her to this little meditation, and I just said, I just want you to relax and just breathe, and I might close my eyes too, I told her, and I closed my eyes. And, you know, my work is their work, right? Their work is my work. So I'm, you know, relaxing as well. And I said to her, I just want you to notice that there's nowhere else that you have to be right now, and there's nothing else that you have to do. And it was just like, Boom, just like water works. And that was just a thing that she needed to hear. I'm making up. And it's a thing that somebody said to me once as an achiever, somebody was like, oh. And she said to have you say that to later after the meditation, she's like to have you, and it only lasted eight minutes, but she's like to have you say to me, like, there's nowhere else that I have to be right now, nothing else I have to do. She's like, that's never true for me. Yeah, so we went worked on her essays. She had this cool story about this one thing, and then we switched over and ended up being more about family. Ended up going to she's at UCLA now, and wrote me an email recently, and she said that some of those conversations that we had really stuck with her, that she felt like she was able to get some tools and resources that allowed her to just process life better. And when I hear that, I'm just like, oh my gosh, like, this is the best stuff. You know? I feel really lucky to be doing what I'm doing


Amie Dorsey  20:26  
to process life better. I mean, what better gift can you give


Ethan Sawyer  20:29  
somebody? And this, even though it says, You know what, I what's presented is, we're doing a college essay, we're doing so much more. And that's why I feel really lucky, and not just that. Like, I think I've even though I thought that I was doing this one thing, I found that this work is so elastic, and it's so flexible and connects to so many different parts of who we are, and it helps us discover ourselves. So I think there's that potential in the college essay process, and I think it's one that if students are really willing to take the time to just take time to do several drafts and to really process with some deep questions that I think that there's a whole lot more. There are other gifts to be found. You know,


Amie Dorsey  21:10  
yeah, that's amazing. Let's get really concrete for a second. I want to hear what your how you work with students, basically, because I think everyone's probably listening to this and thinking, you know how everything you're saying is so on the button. But then I'm sure people are wondering, well, what would I do with Ethan?


Ethan Sawyer  21:27  
Yeah, well, while we were just talking in the last 1510, minutes, whatever it's been, I had this idea that on our podcast, when I record you, that I would actually just take you through the process, and it would take us about 2025, minutes. But there are three exercises that I'll just bullet point right now, and I let me tell you what they are, and then I'd love to see if you'd be willing to go through it with me. Okay, does that sound interesting? Sure, sure. Yeah, great. Okay, so what it would be is, but, yeah, good. That's, that's good. That tells me that you're that there's something cooking, maybe. So there's this first exercise that I mentioned, called the essence objects exercise, which I'll explain to you, and it involves just picking essence objects and that represent deeper parts of who you are. And then there's this values exercise, which involves taking choosing some of your top values. And then there's a simple exercise that involves processing one challenge from your life. And so I ask you six questions about the challenge. In fact, the first question is, what is the challenge? And then we walk through that process. And like I said, it takes about 20 minutes, but on the other side of it, you know, I've learned something about you, and I think your listeners will have learned something about you. So they will, I mean, that's, yeah,


Amie Dorsey  22:36  
I'm glad we got some time to prepare for this here and now, this is good. This is good, okay? And I don't


Ethan Sawyer  22:39  
want you to prepare for it too much, because I want people to see that it's want people to see that it's like, it's something that, and you're somebody who really is great at processing and thinking on the fly and these things. So whatever you do is great, and whatever you do is fine. So just to sort of set you at ease a little bit, okay, good, that's good. So y'all can look forward to that. But there are these three simple exercises, and as I'm leading Ted through them. You know, you could, you know, do these as well. So I won't flip the script on you just yet. I'll let you keep the spotlight on me, but when it's your turn, if you're down for it, I'd love to do that. Yeah, that'll be fun. That's cool. Not what you expected me to


Amie Dorsey  23:15  
say. I did not, no, no, we did not plan for this. No, I'm, I'm up for it. That'd be fun. So


you do workshops with groups. Do you work individually with kids? What's the, you know, what's the suite of services?


Ethan Sawyer  23:28  
So basically, you know, I'd say the most number, like, most students see me through the website. So there's kind of, like, a lot of students come onto the website. I've got a ton of free resources for counselors, even for parents who are, in some cases, ushering students to the process or trying to get their students to engage more deeply. There's a bunch of Parent Resources. So that's how I'd say most people know me, closer than that. You know people sometimes take my courses, which are, pay what you can, Pay What You Can is really important to me, because access. I really want anybody to be able to access these resources. You can access them through the website or through the book, but I find it's good to do it in like, a week setting where you're committed to, like, Okay, here's this one week that I'm gonna do these particular exercises. I'm gonna get a solid draft, and so I've got a summer course that I teach that people can find out about on the website, and it's pay what you can, because, like I said, I really want it to be accessible. Then I also work with a small number of students, one on one, and that's when students work for it's, it's unlimited sessions. I don't like to limit it, because I feel like we never know how long a story is going to take. So, you know, last year I worked with, probably, I usually work with somewhere between, you know, 10 and 30 students, depending on the year, and over the course of a whole year, it might be, end up being like 40, you know. But the high season is sort of like, you know, June, July, August. Because I think it's really important for students to to try and get as much done as they can in the summer, because fall just is so bonkers. And they know what


Amie Dorsey  24:55  
the questions are going to be, essentially. I mean, sometimes the questions, you know, some, some universities. Ask specific questions, but a lot of times it's just let it rip and keep it under 750 words. You know,


Ethan Sawyer  25:05  
right? Yeah. So to get even more specific with that, if folks are interested, the main statement, which you'll use for either the common app or now the coalition app, which is for most private schools, is 650 words and it goes out that main big statement is the one that you'll probably spend most of your time on, the one I've been talking the one I've been talking about, and that, you know, I think takes 810, drafts, you know, to really get it solid. And then the supplemental essays that Ted's referring to are the essays that are particular to each school. Like, why do you want to go to Northwestern or, you know, what's an extracurricular activity that in 150 words you could tell us a little more about. And those are officially released, usually in about August, August, 1 to 15th. But those don't tend to change too often. So I encourage students to get a start on that. You know, we know that UPenn is probably going to have a 650 why us statement? Because they've had that for a few years. But those essays do change. So I just let students, you know, say, hey, check back in to make sure if students are applying to public schools, those are sometimes different essays. So if you're applying to the University of California schools, those have four separate essays that are 350 words each. In fact, I'm not supposed to call them essays, excuse me. They're called personal insight questions because they the UCS feel like the word essay is oftentimes pings for student, like an academic piece of writing. Yeah, certainly not what this is. This is just tell us more about about who you are. And that's, that's, that's, broadly speaking, that's not the actual prompt. There are eight different prompts that you can choose from, and you can just Google those. How to write the UC, personal insight questions. If you're interested, because I'm, because we're talking about resources, I have a little one hour guide to writing the UC personal insight questions that's on my site.


Amie Dorsey  26:41  
So is that, does that pay what you can as well? That's free. Oh,


Ethan Sawyer  26:45  
great, a free guide. And then I've got a Pay What You Can course, that's a week long course that I'm teaching in September, but is also on demand. That's pay what you


Amie Dorsey  26:53  
can, nice, that's awesome. Yeah? I mean, I love the I love the accessibility, you know, I think that's, I think that's so important. And just as a personal I'm sure it's a personal value of yours, right? Yeah, I'm guessing hugely,


Ethan Sawyer  27:03  
yeah, it's um, yeah, because so, you know, having I didn't grow up with a ton of money, I wasn't, I wouldn't say we were poor, but, you know, I would have liked to have had more resources, and, you know, to if I'd found something like this, I think. And so what I would say to students is, if, you're on a tight budget, there are resources that are out there, and there are podcasts like ours that can get you most of what you need. What I think can be useful is having somebody to give you a little input on your topic. So students sometimes are like, what should I write about? And, you know, like on a course, for example, like the course that I lead, you know, I have students work with a writing partner, and the writing partner could be someone that you know, or it can be someone that you know, that that you trust, but somebody who's had some experience with the college essay process or college application process can be really super important. So I'd highly, highly recommend that


Amie Dorsey  27:55  
so a student wouldn't necessarily need to work with you in order to have that access, that level of access? No.


Ethan Sawyer  28:01  
Well, I mean, I think that it's good to know. So the short answer is no, like you can get great college admissions advice from, you know, lots of different people out there, your counselor, if your counselor is not available, there are many times that an English teacher has, has lots of, you know, experience doing this. Some English teachers have more experience than others. You know, some English teachers are mostly, you know, focused on the analytical writing and and that's sort of the essay that they know how to write. But I'd say just making sure, when you're trying to pick your topic, that you've got you've gotten some guidance on what makes a great topic, and that's something that we that I cover in the course. But when it comes to, like, revising drafts and, you know, just figuring out, like, what makes an interesting story. And, you know, that's something that I think any human can, can give you some feedback on any sensitive human, yeah, you know. And I think that one of the things that I also on the course, sorry, I'm not trying to, like, continuously pitch the course, but one of the things that I think is important, that students should be aware of, is what goes into a great personal statement. And I think there are four qualities that go into a great personal statement that I can explain in, you know, five minutes. And I think that it's possible to to basically go into each of these qualities, and so to bring more of them into your essay in about, you know, 20 or 30 minutes, and have a path for that. And once you have that path, once you know what those four qualities are, I think it's possible to get feedback from somebody, even if they don't have expertise in the college essay. Hey, and thanks for listening. You'll find all the show notes, which is to say any links that I discuss, like the essence objects exercise and the free guide to the UC personal insight questions on college essay guide.com/podcast just scroll down to the bottom of the page, and you'll see that right next to the link for this episode. What else? Oh, subscribe. If you haven't subscribed, you'll get access to these episodes as soon as they come out fresh off the digital presses. Thanks so much. And stay curious. You.


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