Show Notes
On this week’s episode, Tom Campbell (CEG’s Community Manager) sits down with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy) for Part 5 in our What Colleges Want series to talk about some of the other written parts of the application—the activities list, additional information section, and supplemental essays. Tom and Ethan get into:
How can students write a great Activities List?
How can you find out what colleges are looking for in the supplemental essays?
And what even is the additional information section?
What is a ‘Super Essay’ and how might it be useful?
How does a student know when their application is complete?
Fun fact: You’ll find the YouTube video version of this podcast on the College Essay Guy YouTube channel.
Play-by-Play
1:09 – What are the other writing components of a college application?
5:26 – How can students write a great Activities List?
9:33 – Does the order of the activities matter?
11:41 – Are activities from 9th and 10th grade worth putting in the Activities List?
13:37 – When should students elaborate on Activities in their Additional Info section?
17:05 – What else can go into the Additional Info section?
23:14 – What are some things to avoid putting in the Additional Info section?
24:41 – How should students format the Additional Info section?
26:19 – Why do some colleges have supplemental essays?
27:31 – What are some of the most common supplemental essays prompts?
34:11 – How might institutional priorities impact an individual applicant?
44:14 – What is a ‘Super Essay’ and how is it used?
49:12 – How does a student know when their application is complete?
ResourceS
How to Use the Common App Additional Information Section: Guide + Examples
How to Combine Your College Essay Prompts (To Save 20+ Writing Hours)
CEG Podcast Episode 101: Life As an Undocumented Student at Harvard
CEG Podcast Episode 504: What Colleges Want (Part 4): A Crash Course in the Personal Statement with Ethan Sawyer (College Essay Guy)
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:00
But ultimately, I think the most empowering place to come from is once you get to know what a school is about, where do you vibe with that, so start from you, that's just a much more powerful place to come from than trying to guess, and have the perfect application that's going to present the ideal way. It should really be rooted from your interest and your experience.
Hey, friends, welcome back to this whole podcast. This is Part Five In our what colleges want series. And last week, we talked about the personal statement. This week, we're talking about all the other written parts of the application, the activities list, the Additional Information section, and supplemental essays. But you might be wondering, does the order of my activities in my activities list matter? How do you find out what colleges are looking for in their supplemental essays? And what even is the Additional Information section and what goes there? Tom is the host for this one, but I kick it to him a few times, because he's got tons of experience from his time reading applications at Pomona. And a fun fact, you can find a YouTube video version of this podcast on the college as a YouTube channel. Just search for college essay guy, Crash Course supplemental essays on YouTube. I know that's a lot to type in. Well, let's go.
Tom Campbell 1:25
So Ethan, welcome back. Thanks, essays, part two. Here we go. Here we go. Alright, so we're here to talk about we talked a lot about the personal statement on the previous episode in this series. But we're going to talk a little bit about the other writing components that are often asked for students as part of the college application process, namely the activities lists, the Additional Information section, or however it's termed, and supplemental essays, which are asked for by a lot of particularly more selective schools on an individual basis that students may have to complete. So in the state of college admissions report, the NACA report that this whole podcast series is designed around, there aren't really actually lines on the report for those things that I just mentioned. So where would you say in terms of that report, in terms of the things that colleges are looking for in students? Where do the additional info section the activities list? And those supplemental essays fall? Or kind of? What's their role there? Yeah.
Ethan Sawyer 2:17
So a big one is what we talked about in the second episode of this series of lectures, the third episode, positive character attributes. So one of the things that Tom and Bob and Tricia talked about is, essentially when it comes to showing these positive character attributes, which is a vague term. And it's different for you know, for each school is like, how do you show that you are committed to social justice, if that is something that you feel like will potentially resonate with the school and it's through the essays it's through? In some cases, the activities list like showing what are the different things that you've done to take whatever this quality is to the next level, it ends with the activities list. And in some cases, as we'll talk about, I'm sure in that additional information section where you can give that a little bit of extra context. And it shows those positive character attributes. So that's where it's showing up in one sense. But I have a sense, and I haven't confirmed this with too many college site folks, a few, but I haven't like surveyed. But I have a sense that when we were talking about the college essay, they were just talking about the one personal statement, like they are talking about the college essays more broadly, they're talking about those supplemental essays. So that's my sense that they aren't only talking about just the personal statement, it's like, personal statement, but also the supplemental essays that give us a sense of the student's voice, who they are their writing.
Tom Campbell 3:32
Yeah. And even like essays, like no, we're gonna get into this in a second. But essays like the why us essay, which is like why do you want to go to Duke? Right? Yeah, that's shows a level of an applicant's interest, which I'm not saying that that's something that Duke necessarily values. It's just, you know, a hypothetical example. But as this report is shown, many colleges do look at how interested a student is in attending as part of their decision process. So supplemental essays and the OH can definitely a place for that to really same thing with the grades and strength of curriculum. Right, the Additional Information section which again, we're we're gonna get into this in a little bit, is really a place where students can describe the strength of their curriculum and any trends or you know, important Asterix is Asterix this is these Asterix these Asterix C's around grades and courses and the things that were available to them and the things that they were able to take advantage of. Especially when maybe you went you came from a school where maybe there wasn't this plethora, talk about a talk about a college essay word right? When I've seen many, in myria route a myriad Yep. That's definitely a place where you can kind of really contextualize that curriculum and those grades, which are the top top most important things that colleges care about, rightly so. Yeah, a lot of value in these three different spaces that were mentioned.
Ethan Sawyer 4:43
Yeah. And I think sometimes students think, well, my grades will speak for themselves. And it's like, well, maybe, and maybe your counselor school report will help contextualize it. But yeah, there's practical stuff that students can do. And there's power and
Tom Campbell 4:55
putting it in your own words as well. Totally. Yeah. So I think there's a there's a huge Here's a piece for that. Alright, so now we kind of know where these components fall within the report. But let's talk let's talk a little more in depth about two areas that I recommend students usually really locked down before kind of touching and getting too into the weeds with supplemental essays, which are that Activities List in that additional information section? Well, you may ask, I'll tell you why. Those are things that you're going to be sending to pretty much every college you apply to right are applying on the Common Application, or quest bridge application or coalition application to score shout out to score, we love Colette, we love a collabo moment with score. Those are things you kind of need to do before he can touch those individual school specific writing samples that you may or may not be asked to complete, depending on your college list. So let's start with the activities list. What would you say is kind of like the main job of the activities list the items of the college process,
Ethan Sawyer 5:51
if the personal statements about who you are, broadly speaking, the activities list is what you've done. Yep. So this is your brag sheet, this is your chance to be like, I did this to this and this. And here are my particular responsibilities. And here's the impact it had. Here's some specific numbers. And the reason I think students should do all that bragging isn't where students worry about the attention, brag my application, go and brag, brag in your activities list, that is the spot for it. Go nuts, so that you can then show up in jeans and a T shirt as it were in your personal statement and be a little more casual, a little more informal, a little more sassy, not to say you can bring a little sass to your activities list. But for the most part, this is gonna be your resume, it's going to be in some cases, something that, you know, colleges are really looking at in terms of engagement, particularly during summers. But I tell students like you just go for it and your activities list in terms of just saying it's it should be the the most, you know, I don't know, students should definitely this, maybe we'll get into this definitely shouldn't make stuff up. But this should be like the shiniest example of your involvement in named the activity. Yeah, yeah. And
Tom Campbell 6:54
I think I think an a way to kind of describe in terms of bragging is that it's contained bragging. Yeah, you know, totally, you know, from a philosophical standpoint, right. You know, it's not just like, I am the Supreme debater, and everyone else is crap. You know, like, you don't want to maybe go to that extreme, but it's also contained, because you don't have a lot of space. Yeah. So that's another thing that I think is just important to touch on is just the format of it. Right? So yeah, you know, how many activities can people put down? How many characters? Yeah, what does that often mean for students? When it comes to like, we'll actually building it out? Yeah.
Ethan Sawyer 7:26
What I'll say is like, you have a limited number of activities. And you do not have to fill your entire activities list. So if the UCS asked you for 20 activities, you do not have to list 20 activities. You could listener, as many as are meaningful to you sure, students will sometimes ask, is it more quantity? Is it more quality? Are you more of a student who's a maximalist, who's like, I gotta put all the things, then put all the things? Are you student, he's like, No, I'm a minimalist. I only want to list my three most important ones, or my four most important ones great to do that. There's not like a hard and fast rule for this. But I want to make sure I say this. So I don't forget. Don't make stuff up. Quick story. 15. Second story, I had a student who I worked with awesome. He's telling me all this awesome stuff that he's had great, great, great, great. Turns out he didn't do the stuff that he said he did. He got into some schools, and those schools were like, wait a minute, this doesn't match with this talk to his counselor found out? Oh, wait, the student is actually not being totally truthful. Ended up getting those applications rescinded. So quick note, don't make stuff up in your activities list.
Tom Campbell 8:28
Absolutely true. Yes. Don't lie in your activities list. Not a great idea. And in terms of quality and quantity right there. Even schools like MIT, which, you know, at the time of recording this, like, they are only asking for, like five activities, right? And I think it's because they've said very publicly, we've tended to find that, like, you know, students are involved in one off things here and there, or they did a summer program, or they started an activity early on, but we're really most interested in the main ways that they spend their time outside of the classroom. And it tends to be five or less areas. Yeah,
Ethan Sawyer 8:57
for most people, this is an important equity thing too, because not every student has the opportunity to go do x, y, z and Q things. And so I'm really a fan shout out to colleges who were doing this, of limiting the number of activities so that students so that it doesn't appear like well, this student had 20 activities and the student had three Well, clearly the student but in some cases, it just in colleges, you know, readers know this admission. Officers are smart, they know that, you know, some students are going to be offered more opportunities than others. But anyway, I would never say like for your activities, less practical advice for students do the best for the opportunities that were given to you. And if you're listening to this in the ninth and 10th grade, check out the resource on our site because you've got lots of different resources about how to find awesome things that you not only will quote unquote look good on a college application, but that'll help you express your core values learn what you care about all these things. So Willington
Tom Campbell 9:49
so let's dive into some like frequently asked questions around activities list. So one is about the order. Right? Does it really matter how much if you know I'm involved in debate and athletics like is it going to changed my application in any way if one is listed over the other in terms of the numbering, yeah,
Ethan Sawyer 10:05
yes and no. So it does matter in the sense of like, if your readers reading, like, the chances are the things at the top are going to be the things that they assume are gonna be the most important. So I would say, broadly speaking, don't bury at the very bottom, your particular activity that's really important to you. Because if they're reading it, and it's at the bottom, they might wonder like, Well, why did they list this last? If you found it this particular thing? So broadly speaking, put your most important ones at the top, but the ones that are like medium level important in the middle, and then the ones that are less important at the bottom, but don't stress this is you talk about sweat it and forget it. Yeah, don't stress about should I put this five or six and spend like a week thinking about it? Because this is going to be something that the reader is going to read pretty quickly, right? Yeah,
Tom Campbell 10:44
I'd say like, think about the theme that someone reading it quickly is going to be taken away from you. And I think order has a has a role there. Like, say, for example, you're really into coding and stem and whatnot, right? If someone's going through the activities list, and it's like, the first eight activities are all about that. And then there's like two at the end that's like, I'm also in drama club, and it's like 40 hours a week, and you're like, dang, like, do you really care about all that? Mostly, it kind of sends a message that it's like a throwaway, right? When you have all these other things that are front loaded at the beginning. And totally, you know, you kind of just save some things at the end of it kind of just felt like you could tack them on. Yeah. And they're not really as like meaningful things to you. Yeah, I
Ethan Sawyer 11:24
kind of think this is this was like a mixtape, when this is going to totally get students to overthink this, but a mixtape, by the way is a CD. Yeah, what is it compact this, but like you're making a Spotify playlist? And it's sort of like, alright, well, if all the tracks kind of have the same theme, cool, okay. But do you want to maybe put in in the third one to break up all of the stuff that you've got related to engineering or whatever it is, with another activity, or something I've seen some students do this where their application is heavily computer science skewed. And they go with another activity related to service as their number one thing or their activities list. So think about this a little bit, don't obsess?
Tom Campbell 11:57
Exactly. One question we get a lot is like, does it matter? If I haven't been involved in all my activities? Like all four years? Like, should I still be putting the things that I did in ninth and 10th grade, even if I've kind of like, hung up my cape? So
Ethan Sawyer 12:11
again, I kind of go back to minimalist, maximalist, like, if you're somebody who, let's say, well, actually, let me give a specific example. There was a student years ago that I, you know, met new worked with, and the student didn't have a ton of things, and was like, had two or three things and was like, I feel like this one off thing, this one week experience doesn't really show a lot. But I'm like, you know, there isn't a lot on your application. So I could see actually including that in that situation. Whereas some students will have a bunch of activities, and it's already loaded full. They're like, do I really need to include this thing that they did for one week? And it's not necessarily but I come back to that, like, if you feel like you're gonna feel sad, if you didn't include all the things, then you know, include it. If you feel like you're the student who's like, No, I only want to speak because it's important to me to just focus on the specific ones, the very squeaky mean sweet ones, then great do that. Yeah.
Tom Campbell 13:01
Sounds like a plan. So another big thing that we get questions a lot about, and a lot of overthinking, I would say about is like, should it go in the activities list or the honors, slash awards section? A reason why
Ethan Sawyer 13:13
I think people get tripped up about those students is that it says academic honors? My so different counselors are different strokes for different counselor, folks. But I feel like it's okay. It doesn't matter too much is my answer is like when someone's reading it, they're not going to be like, wait, I mean, did you ever have a moment at Pomona where you like that one? In the words it should have been? No. So it's sort of like, it doesn't really matter, as long as the what I like to say general rule as long as it makes sense. And as long as somebody a sensitive, caring, intelligent human can read it be like, Yeah, that makes sense. And you can justify why goes in that section. Great. But one of the biggest questions I get is, should I go in the activities are additional info or rewards? Yeah, make it make sense.
Tom Campbell 13:53
Alright, last frequently asked question before turning on to the next section we're going to do additional info is how much did I describe an activity versus show like what I've learned or how I've grown from it? Right? So that's something that I think can be hard and a delicate balance of like, do I need to actually explain what this is like basketball, shoot a ball out of move? Like versus, you know, maybe other things you did? Yeah, as part of the team.
Ethan Sawyer 14:20
This is where I'll go back to what I was talking about in the first episode, where it was like, there's the common and then the uncommon thing. So if you're, it's pretty obvious that you showed up to practices like attended regular practices, you can probably delete that. Yeah, look at that values list and go, What are some other values that you gained while you were in that activity? Now, I'm a huge fan of like, strong verbs to show the different the range of things you've done, but at the service of showing different values. So show that you are responsible for taking minutes. Okay, cool, that shows that you are organized, you know, served as liaison for this thing. Okay, cool. That shows another side of you. But essentially, and we'll link to this in the show notes. You can write these activities list descriptions in a short way that's going to show have different values and stuff beyond the obvious stuff. Sidenote, if there is something, and we'll talk about this in a second, in the activities where you're just like, I can't describe all of the amazingness of my involvement in, you know, whatever it was, then you can put that in additional info. So don't feel like you have to put everything in the activities list, for
Tom Campbell 15:18
sure. That kind of like decision may shape decision making matrix, the muffle that I like to give students and equip them to think about okay, is, is this an activity where I need to, like, describe what it is? Or what how what I do is explain or expound, like, so do i do like explaining activities? Say it's like a new initiative that you brought to your school and like the title of the club is like, happy wood club? What does that mean? I'm curious, right? That might be wanting you to explain us, the 150 explained and probably explain that why, you know, like, is it Woodworking is it? Who knows, right? Like, what's the happy part of it? That's an explaining example, right? Where it's like the name of it alone is not it's not a typical activity that's in every other high school. And it's like your baby, like Sorry, that you maybe started that might be or just club organization you do outside that, like the name doesn't really translate this solely to what you do or isn't readily obvious. And then expound, right, like, so those are the activities like the basketball like theater, like mock trial like newspaper, where it's like, yeah, the person reading that knows if you're a newspaper, you probably contribute to articles in some way, right? Like, right writing articles for a newspaper that is read by students, right? What's your particular role expand and kind of like elaborate on how you spent your time in that particular activity? With athletics, right? Like, are you the mom friend who carries the band aids to practices for the people whose kid their knee? Do you create the pump up playlist before every game and people listened to it on the bus, again, you have 150 characters. And you know, this might change depending on the evolution of the different application types that are out there. But in general, you don't have a ton of space to kind of write every single bullet of how you spend your time. But when you look over the activities list as a theme you're like, is this showing multiple sides of who I am and how I contribute to different teams and clubs and communities total and kind of just thinking about the collective body of work of your activities list in terms of was communicating about you and how you spend your time and your unique role and contribution to something totally. Alright, so. So now let's talk about the Additional Information section. So this is often I'd say, like, both an underutilized and misunderstood section in the in the college application process? Because essentially, what it is, is it's a play space in your application to kind of really elaborate or expand on whatever you see fit, I would argue, and I would think you would as well, Ethan, that there are certain experiences elaborations context details that are oftentimes more helpful to people in admissions than others. So in that vein, what would you say is kind of like the best way that a student can approach a whether or not it makes sense to even fill in anything in the Additional Info section at all? And be what are kind of some of the big buckets that oftentimes are good things to potentially include in your additional info section, if it's relevant to your experience. Yeah,
Ethan Sawyer 18:09
first of all, I want to, we have to start with the qualifier that like, you do not have to put anything in this section, you can get into a great college students get into great colleges every year, putting nothing in this section. In fact, some schools, some high schools have a policy of like, we don't use that section, you're fine. No one's gonna like you're gonna gonna get docked points, because you didn't put anything in there. Having said that, there's some cool opportunities here. So number one, the one thing that I mentioned earlier, if you want to expand on something that you've talked about in your activities list, because you're just like, gosh, there's so much more than I did here. You want to use straightforward bullet points. That's a great use. You mentioned the explained their explanations for things you got involved with that you feel like, just really didn't get their airtime. Or maybe there are particular acronyms that you want to explain. There's also extenuating circumstances that could relate to so many different things, whether it's complications at work, and you know, my dad lost his job. And that had, you know, certain impacts on your family or family member hospitalized, you are hospitalized and you have these sort of like extra challenges, things that you're like is that my personal statement, we talked about this in the other episode, you can put this in your in your Additional Information section, including, and we'll do a whole mini series on this, including describing mental health challenges. Sometimes students feel like I have to put that in my personal statement, not necessarily you can do a more straightforward explanation of mental health challenges, dealing with depression, anxiety, these kinds of things. Here's the challenge that I experienced, here's the effect. Here's what I did about it. Here's what I learned. Again, we'll link in the show notes to guides on this because we'll be creating these in the coming weeks and months. But essentially, these are the this is the place where once they've read your application, read your personal statement, read your activities list, probably have read your supplemental essays, which we'll talk about in a second. And they're like, Alright, you're kind of on borrowed time as it were, or it's sort of like Hector, what else? What else you got? What am I missing? What am I what else you got? What am I forgetting?
Tom Campbell 20:04
I usually read the additional info section before supplemental essays. But did you? Yeah, just because it's part of the Common Application. Right? So Oh, that makes sense. Do you just kind of work chronology strokes
Ethan Sawyer 20:14
for different college admission, folks. So you read the additional info? First,
Tom Campbell 20:18
right after that, we'll be right after the personal statement as a basically, after everything else that's included in the Common Application. That's the next that makes us step after bavetta supplemental school specific things,
Ethan Sawyer 20:29
and then we're missing anything, what am I missing from that for the additional? So
Tom Campbell 20:31
I think that I think is generally I would say the, the additional info section kind of covers four buckets, I think you've got three of them. So one is like additional expanded activities. The second would be extenuating circumstances, health challenges, family challenges, you know, etc. Third, would be things around like lived experience and identity. And the fourth one, I'd say is kind of academic context. So maybe, could you talk a little bit more about Yes, I can, too. So maybe, yeah, for people who, you know, say you're coming from an environment where it's not, there's not a really high college going culture and go and talk about it only. Okay, go. So say you're coming from an environment where most of the people who graduated from your high school end up going to community college, or they go to trade school, and your goals are different than that, you know, you're looking to go on to four year colleges, maybe there isn't as much of a infrastructure in your school, you know, there's a counselor that really can't be with people or, you know, the students that the counselor is meeting with our students who are doing, you know, with a teenage pregnancy, or who are chronically absent or things like that, that's really helpful. Context is the word that oftentimes people who work in admissions use for someone who's reading your application to know about the environment that you're coming from your awareness of, you know, kind of different elements of the college process, how formative that's been for you, how much maybe initiatives you've had to take to kind of self learn self Teach Yourself, utilize resources? I
Ethan Sawyer 21:53
want to give kind of examples of those. Yeah, absolutely. So some specific examples. And we'll link to this in the show notes. But there was a student who I worked with a few years ago, who was the he got X score on the on standardized tests on the SATs, and it was the highest score. Like if I just looked at that score, I would have been like, okay, you know, it's pretty good score. But he's like, that's the highest score in my class, that wouldn't have been anywhere else in his application. So that was important context. Another piece of context. He scored a three on his AP physics, which is passing but barely has done a force, not a five. It's a three, but he's like, I'm the first student in my school to pass AP physics. And like, Yo, I want to know about that. And I want that additional context. Another student year before that, it was coincidently friends with a student, his college counselor left or I don't know, was fired or something. And there was no college counselor. So he went, and I don't know if that actually he was first episode of the podcast. He went and created his like, basically became the college counselor, right and resources, started sharing, here's what goes in your activities list. Here's what goes on your additional info became the temporary college counselor until they found a new one. I wouldn't have known that kind of stuff. And it certainly would have been the counselor that because he didn't have a college counselor. So these kinds of things go in there. The other thing you mentioned grades, you know, this is a student who the first student that I mentioned, had some not awesome grades, part of the challenges that he'd experienced, that had led him to getting and I'm not talking about like C's and DS, but he had grades that he was like, because he was applying to highly selective schools that he wasn't like, he's like these, this isn't my best work. Part of that he's like, was a result of some of these challenges that I was facing?
Tom Campbell 23:30
Yeah. Other things to avoid? I mean, I would say, I mean, really asking yourself, like, is this an important detail for someone else to know? Yeah, like, a lot of times, I'd say, the most unnecessary use of this section is that easy, oh, we kind of put those categories of what's helpful, but like, the expanded resume is not quite that helpful, unless you're like, unless it's a club or organization that again, like evolved over time, and like, hey, when I started, it was really different. And then I ended up getting 5000 people across the state to really, you know, implement this in their schools. Like, that's kind of like a story and like a growth arc and a real area of initiative that's really helpful for someone on the other end to know about how you saw that through but, you know, you don't need five bullet points about working, you know, on the school newspaper, it's, it's pretty self explanatory, for the most part. So don't feel pressured to elaborate on every single activity that you've done. Because, in fact, a lot of times unless you're adding like new information or unexpected details, it just is not needed.
Ethan Sawyer 24:36
Yeah, I'll sometimes advocate for the clone test where you like, imagine cloning yourself version A of you submits this application version B of you submits this other one that you're considering, including, does that make a big difference? Like do you accept Student B, you know, a version B with this inclusion in it because a lot of times students will do that and be like, Oh, it kind of doesn't matter. Yeah. And don't come to that conclusion themselves.
Tom Campbell 24:57
The last question, I'll ask about it. ditional Information section is. So unlike the activities list where there's kind of like a format that's built into the forum, right, like, here's the position, here's the organization, here's the description. The additional info section is completely blank. So there's no kind of really default formatting things that sudesh should do. So should there be headings? Should there be bullets? How should students break up the kind of different things that they may want to expand on? Should they include things like links to a portfolio or article in the newspaper or a video, you know, if your local TV station about this great Autism Awareness rally that you put on or whatnot write great about things like that?
Ethan Sawyer 25:36
So yeah, we'll we'll put a link in the show notes. So you can actually see the format. But essentially, headers are awesome. If you're gonna give me a big giant paragraph, give me the gist of it at the top. So like, explanation for math grade, you know, like, put that at the top so that I kind of know what's in that paragraph, make it readable, make it skimmable essentially, like label what I call like a labeling your boxes, like label each of these things. And then you know it depending on on formatting, sometimes students really fuss about this, you can export the Additional Information section, so you can look at it later to make sure it's readable, but essentially just make this as readable as possible. Yeah. And yeah, we'll link in the show notes. Yeah, and see what that looks. You know,
Tom Campbell 26:15
I think things like, for example, like leadership highlights could be a big header that you have there, or like academic contexts, you know, kind of like even the buckets that we mentioned here, you could theoretically have those be the headers for your Additional Info section just to help the person moving through it in that time crunch that they have really get a sense for kind of what those buckets are that you felt compelled to expand on totally. So let's switch gears now to the supplemental essays, which, you know, are not required by all colleges, right, I'd say actually, the vast majority of us colleges and universities don't really have any requirements, like if you finish your activities list, your personal statement, and maybe you're just if you want, you're good you're buying or selling. But many more students, I would say who come to us for help, are particularly interested in schools that are more selective. And those are the ones that often have additional essay requirements, which are called supplemental essays, they typically tend to be shorter, right? So I'd say anywhere between, you know, 100, to maybe 500 words, unless it's like your Cornell and Cornell 650 word why US business as of this recording. So the big distinction that I like to tell students with supplemental essays, is that these are essays that were designed by the colleges themselves, which is a big distinction from the personal statement, which are, there's a default list of questions included in the Common Application, or quest bridge or coalition. And pretty much anything you write about that has to do with yourself and shows skills, qualities, values and interests. It's green checkmark, like it fits the prompt, right? Because there's even a prompt that's topic of your choice. So with the school specific supplemental essays, can you walk us through or our dear listeners through some of the big buckets or categories that most of these essays tend to fall into thematically?
Ethan Sawyer 27:56
Sure, yeah. So some of the biggest ones that you'll tend to find is, you know, you mentioned the why us essay. And this is essentially, the essay where you're saying, here are the reasons whether you've got 100 words, or whether you've got 650 words, that I believe you and I will be a great fit. And we'll link to a whole guide of this in the show notes. But essentially, what you're trying to do is to say, Hey, I've done my research, and I really feel like, you know, not just I feel like, but I know that you would be a good fit because of these particular reasons. And so you almost can't get too specific in a wias essay. So talking about the particular club, the particular professor, all of this stuff is not only okay, it's encouraged. So I think the biggest thing that students when they start thinking about why us essays are like, Can I mention those things? And it's like, yes, absolutely. And I think this is a good thing to think about is this is actually a research essay, like you probably don't know, you probably can't name eight reasons off the top of your head that you want to go to Michigan, you're probably like, Well, my grandfather went there, I'm pretty sure. And I look good and blue, and I go, Go Cats, no, don't say Go Cats. That's Northwestern, Go Blue. But quick, sidenote, make sure you do research some of those things, and you don't end up messing up the mascot. There's a whole, you know, guide, I've got a whole separate YouTube video on this. But that's one of the biggest ones. And again, it can be as short as 100 words, maybe now, arguably, there's a 50 word one out there, that could change. But you know, essentially, if you got 100 words, it's okay to be straightforward. You can be factual to the point. If you got 300 words, you can be a little bit of creative, but really, if you want to get the information in there, if you're getting into the more of the 450 500 600 word range. Yeah, you should probably include stuff around your major. I mean, you should probably do that in your BIOS anyway. But you can be a little bit more creative, but that's one of the big ones. Another big one that I think colleges often look at is the y major essay. And the y major essay is essentially why do you want to study what you want to study and the again will link to a guide below, but the short version of this one is What are the moments experiences that you've had? Ideally within the last, I would say, three to five years, because I think sometimes students start with like, the very first time I picked up a Lego. And it's like, Well, okay, you could mention that. But probably you want to focus on the most recent stuff. But what are those experiences that have helped you develop skills and qualities that will eventually serve you in that future career to the web, there's the Y major one, and then the one of the ones that's become the most popular, and we'll talk about some other minor ones, maybe. But the one of the ones which are most popular is, broadly speaking, what we'll call the identities or diversity essay, and part of why we are talking about this is that when the Supreme Court decision to ban race, conscious admission came out, colleges aren't allowed to ask specifically about students race, and they're really wanting to enroll a diverse class, and diverse in many senses of the word, but they want to know about your identities. So what we saw is like a lot of colleges added essays that asked about, specifically in different folks freeze in different ways. Specifically, what are different identities that you possess, you know, experiences, cultural traditions that are important to you? And how will this contribute to a college campus? Because remember, that these readers are looking at specifically, like, they're trying to build a class, and they're trying to see, okay, who are we bringing in? And how is it gonna vibe with, you know, our campus vibe. And in those situations, keep in mind that it's, it's you're kind of doing a weaving back and forth, you're going back and forth between here's something about me, and here's a specific way that it's going to connect with you. So even in these essays that aren't specifically why us like, why do you want to attend a particular school? If the college is asking, and something about your identities? And that you would bring to the our community? Get specific with how on that campus community, you would bring that in? I would say do that, even if, in some cases, even if they're not asking for it? Like, because college is gonna be able to make those connections between yo, who is the student? And who are they going to be on our campus, you want them to be able to visualize you walking around on campus? The last one, I would say is extracurricular activities. Because I think some schools want to know, okay, beyond all the stuff, you listen to activities list, is there something else that you spend a lot of time doing, or they'll say, pick one of the things you spend a lot of time doing and expand on that. So that's the extracurricular activity essay. And it might be 300 words, it might be longer, but it's your opportunity to say something that isn't already in your activities list and isn't already in your personal statement. It's another reason like that the existence of that essay is another reason why I'll often tell students don't pick a mean extracurricular activities or personal statement topic, because you might have an opportunity in another essay to write about that extracurricular activity. So that's, those are some of the main ones, for sure.
Tom Campbell 32:39
Definitely. And there's like ad hoc ones here. And there. You know, it makes it a little challenging for students, because we have a streamlining strategy I call the Super essay strategy that we'll get into into a bit. But those are the buckets I'd say are the most common was a student see, but every now and then there's like, really unique, interesting, original questions based on a college's mission statement, or based on, you know, an alum who went there, you know, had a certain quote
Ethan Sawyer 33:03
or whatnot, when you say a little bit that because you you had some experience, yeah, helping to write these supplemental essays? And what did you learn in that process that
Tom Campbell 33:11
might be useful for Yeah, so I think in terms of understanding the why behind why College has even asked this is really understanding that just because college asked a certain question, it doesn't. Correlation is not always causation, I guess, is what I would say. So one is, say, for example, like a college asks, like, why are you interested in attending here? That doesn't mean that they necessarily care all that much about demonstrated interest in the traditional sense, right. So there are selective colleges that actually don't really care if you visited campus. They don't talk about that. That's not something that that's discussed. In your candidacy. You don't quote unquote, get points for that. Yeah. But they want to understand because they have such a high volume of applicants. Why you want to go there? And why is that, like you said, the research behind your rationale of why this college is on a place Yeah, in the case can't just be you're ranked highly for computer science, which is what I want to do, and it's in a sunny location, and I'm sick of the snow right there. That's not going to really like oh, we gotta take this kid. They are. They really are gonna just knock the department off the socks. Right. So that is something that I think is one thing I'll mention is that the questions can be telling about what a school values, but also can just be a way to help distinguish applicants in a pool where many students are going to look very similar.
Ethan Sawyer 34:27
Could you say a little about institutional priorities as Yes.
Tom Campbell 34:30
So I would say find that for folks who don't know what that were. Yeah. So institutional priorities are it's interesting because they're actually not a category on the state of college admissions report, which I thought was very interesting. And I was like, if that was added in, I wonder where that would rake in the in the lineup. I wonder if it'd be positive character attribute level or TOEFL? This is because so Oh, yeah. So these are particularly I'd say, really impactful at these more selective colleges. So typically, the more selective school is, the more their admission process is dictated beyond the typical components that are included in your app. So the grades, potentially scores your activities. The more selective school is, the more powers that be, essentially, the Board of Trustees, or college president are trickling down and informing an admissions office. This is the vision that we have for our school going forward. We are blessed with a very deep application pool with very talented students. So we can be more choosy and try to bolster areas of our campus that we want to allocate more attention to, we can increase students from a particular region in the United States that we want more alumni representation in, you know, going forward in the future. So these priorities are really fluid. Some different categories include athletes, musicians, dancers, students who are coming from underrepresented backgrounds, students who are first generation to college colleges that are trying to be more equitable and turn back time from being more exclusionary to particular student demographics, right. A lot of times, these are rooted in the strategic growth and the strategic mission for a college that is set by people beyond the admissions office, those that college leadership. So I would say supplemental essays are often heavily influenced by those priorities, which are fluid and changing and the admissions team has kind of given an update each year about okay, we're doing well with students in the humanities, you know, in the past couple of years, like that's not going to be maybe as high of a priority one year, these are all just hypothetical examples, right. But those play a really huge role in college admission processes more broadly. And men in particular, I'd say supplemental essays are a place where colleges often write questions to source material for priorities that are important to them, right? So if a college asks why major questions, oftentimes, maybe it's because they have certain majors that are what sometimes people refer to as impacted, or really high demand, and they have to be more choosy. And students have to have a really compelling rationale as to why their approach to computer science is more or maybe unconventional, or they want to solve particular causes, or they have this interdisciplinary angle to it. And maybe that's going to help students at a school where there's just a ton of students who are applying to particular high demand programs. And
Ethan Sawyer 37:13
for those students who are this thing about institutional priorities? No, there is no such resource, there's no way of really flat out year to year because they're always changing. Yeah, sorry. It's just one of those black boxes of the gas admission. And
Tom Campbell 37:25
the reason why is because people in admissions are concerned of people crafting applications that are meant to meet those priorities. And if you're a high school student in ninth grade, you're not going to know if you know, say a college does value your major selection a lot, you're not going to know which ones are the most in demand. By the time you're applying as a senior like our society changes very rapidly, right? My experience at Pomona early on when I first started, there wasn't a huge swell of students who are interested in applying to politics. So it was actually an area early on that like students applying to that major, right kind of like a decent bump later in our process. Just coincidentally, Yale, there are other schools where political majors are a big part of like the school's branding and identity and this and that, and they're very popular, so a lot of kids would just flood their applications towards it. But after the 2016 election, more and more students started to get more politically engaged. Gen Z is a more political, politically motivated generation, especially when it comes to equity and justice causes. So we started to see more and more students like that in our pool, and it just became less. It was supply and demand we just had, it became less of a tipping point, we had less of an edge than it was early on. So you can't craft your high school experience with the sense that certain priorities will be fixed from year to year. But anyway, another example of this is like, even among you know, I worked at Pomona, right? It's one of five undergraduate Claremont Colleges, all of the Claremont Colleges had their own supplemental essays that were asked individually and were distinctive from each one. But on paper, right, we're all one square mile, we're all right next to each other students can take classes, all the different schools, they're all small liberal arts, colleges, they all have study abroad and like a range of majors. But each of us had our own different missions and identity that influenced why certain questions were asked when it comes to supplemental essays. So Claremont McKenna, for example. I know from talking with the admissions officers, there's their questions are very influenced by the board and the board's concerns about the school. So they have questions kind of that has to do with essentially topics around talking over differences. Or, you know, that's that's actually an essay that many colleges asked, you know, talk about a time where you had a disagreement with someone and what was that like and how did you did you stand your ground and defend yourself or where was your perspective changed? That was something that the board was concerned that more and more students were coming in with laser focused ideas and, and not being willing to hear another side, and they didn't want a campus full of students that were like that right. Pitzer College is really rooted in core values when it comes to environmental sustainability goals. more engagement. And they have a supplemental essay specifically related to how students live out their core values. And it's really big, like if students don't have a compelling rationale. There was an example that was shared with me about a student talking about intercultural understanding. And they wrote about soccer and how they have like, I have teammates on my team who are Mexican, then we burritos and that's how I am, you know, culturally responsive, right? That's not going to be you know, as in line with schools values as maybe other students who are applying. And then we had places like Pomona right, you know, where for us academic interest is and still continues to be from my understanding a big area that the school is hoping to keep a sense of balance. And because there's this range of it was the, it was the Claremont college with the widest range of majors. But there are certain departments that would get more interest than others. And but you know, have enough butts and seats and to have enough departments happy with students coming in with all these different interests. There were some areas where we needed to be a little more choosy. So we had an academic interest statement. Well, what are you interested in studying here? Not all the other colleges had something like that they didn't care as much. Yeah. So it really speaks to the difference from school to school to school, even ones that have a lot of commonalities, because there's different pressure points or pain points related to their application pool, their history, their mission statement, and lots of different factors.
Ethan Sawyer 41:19
Yeah, and I love that. And practically speaking, like, students who are listening to this wondering, well, what do I What can I do? How do I know it's not, it's a total black box that you can actually go to the school's website, you don't find their mission statement, you can find their values, you can often find some kind of strategic report that the school is putting together, so you get a sense of what these are. But part of why they don't reveal these, to your point is they want to be fair, you know, they want to be equitable. They want to give everybody a shot at answering these questions. So give it your best shot, if you wanted a little bit of research great, but don't obsess over figuring out precisely what the institutional priorities are. Because ultimately, what's I think the most empowering place to come from is once you get to know what a school is about, where do you vibe with that? So start from you, that's just a much more powerful place to come from than trying to guess, and have the perfect application that's going to present in the in the in the ideal way, it should really come be rooted from your interests
Tom Campbell 42:12
and your experience. Yeah, yeah. And hey, we have shout out to our team who put together 80 Plus supplemental essay guides each year that aren't audiology specific, it's an incredible resource that we offer to students who are applying. And at the top of every single article is usually a link to the school's mission statement, their strategic plan, if it's available. And so it's great just for the schools that are on your list, you know, before you sit down and actually draft out those essays. And you know, we're going to get to reusing essays in a second, which is a very important time Efficiency Act that we want to put out there. That's very much greenlit by us. But it's still, I think, impactful to have a sense of an individual College's mission and growth and where they're, where they're headed, and where their minds are at in terms of their leadership. Because if you can make your case, a case for yourself that hey, hey, me over here, like I'm that type of kid that you are really looking for more of on your campus, and in this new era for you. Like that's a great place to be in an application pool, if you can, if you can make that case. Yeah. One example. I'll give you that real quick is Harvey Mudd. So I talked about Pitzer talked about Claremont McKenna, we talked about Pomona shout out to Scripps. I don't have an example for them right now, but are another Claremont College. Harvey Mudd questions are particularly around kind of like how your identity and where you come from, let's influence the achievements that you want to make in STEM, because Harvey Mudd is a school with eight measures, all in STEM fields. And Harvey must mission statement is rooted in, you know, scientists, who have a broad range of a sense of areas outside of that discipline who have a sense of the broad, you know, impact of their achievements and initiatives on society. So you can't just be going in saying, like, Oh, I like coding and initiatives, because it's creative and problem solving is fun. Like, they are specifically saying to students with the way the question was written, like, we want to know, like, what populations you want to help, right, you know, with achievements and stem, how has your background influence the things you want to spend your time doing or the, you know, legacy you want to have in this area? Right. I'm really, really mood rooted in that colleges mission. I'm the vein though of you know, it is very, especially a very long college list, right? It's, it's difficult to have every single essay write and be 100%. Unique, right. And I also would argue that it's not necessary. There are a lot of similar phrasings of questions that students will start to notice where it's totally okay to artfully recycle some beautifully wordsmith work that you have totally So Ethan, can you walk us through a little bit of what's called the Super essay? Because Reggie. So
Ethan Sawyer 44:45
the idea here is that once you create your essay tracker, and your essay tracker, we'll link in the show notes is basically just a spreadsheet with all the essays you need to write. If you're applying to, let's say, 10 schools, and it's, let's say, two or three essays per school, sometimes it's more sometimes less, that's you're looking at a list of like 20 to 30 schools. So how do you save 2040 hours in this process, you write what we call super essays. So the way this works is, if you've got a school that's asking you about what's an identity that's important to you. And then another one asking you about an activity that's important to you. And another one that's just broadly saying, Is there anything else that you feel like would be important for us to know about your application? Yeah, you don't have to write three separate essays and find out what is that super topic that's going to work for each of those. So let's say you're into improv comedy in high school, well, that's connected to an identity that you have maybe an activity that's important to you, and something else that's not revealed elsewhere in your application. So you're basically looking for what is that topic and then the way that practically speaking, you write it is put it on the top of a Google Doc, all the prompts that you could potentially write this for? And don't necessarily write the essay yet. But do the brainstorm for content that's going to work for each of those? Because my argument is that not that's not only going to make it may save you time, it's going to make for a better essay. Yeah. Because then when that school that's asking you about what's an activity that's important to you not only hears about an activity that's important to you, but this identity, the era, you're just adding so much more, that's going to enrich that essay. So rather than spend 10 hours on one essay, 10 hours, 555, spend 20 hours on a really good super essay, and reuse it, reuse it, reuse it. Yeah,
Tom Campbell 46:21
that's why I'd say before diving in, like going school to school one by one, having all those prompts on a list guy. And and what and seeing what's being asked is really, really, I'd say a step that you want to you want to take beforehand, because it's going to end up saving you a lot of time and angst to alarm, especially if you have a long college list, which we don't necessarily endorse. But we know from experience, that's not always as happens. One caveat, I would say about Super essays that I want to put out there is just that, unlike the personal statement, where you can pretty much write about anything related to yourself. And it's fair game. Remember that colleges are very intentional about the way that these questions were written and what they're asking. Yeah. So if you see a question, you're like, this is kind of like an extracurricular and it's like, not really, and you're just like, let's just flop this in and hope it works. It's quote unquote, good enough. You really want to make sure you're answering the question that's written? Totally,
Ethan Sawyer 47:14
that's something that is confusing about the process. But students are often like, the prompt seems important, is it? And for the personal statement, I argue that it's less important because you've got topic of your choice. And Rarely will a reader be like or be forever. Wait, they wrote for three, I think two is a better prompts. No. Now, granted, if you pick prompts three, for the personal statement, separate from supplemental essays, like yeah, definitely answer that. But for supplemental essays, the prompt really matters. And, to your point, like make sure you're answering it and don't just throw in a white major essay, if it's a why, as I say, because you just happen to have a white major essay. Yeah,
Tom Campbell 47:51
I guess what would you say are any common mistakes that you think students should avoid, and the some of the things that we mentioned, when it comes to supplemental essays may be going astray or not being as impactful as they can be? I'd say that's the latter of probably where I see more, more mistakes. It's also the supplemental essays, especially like, it pains me sometimes when students spend a lot of time on them early on in their process, because it's like, you need to take care of the things that are sent to all of your schools, personal statement, additional info section activities, list, A and P, most of these essays are actually not available or updated until after August 1, which is when the Common Application goes live for that particular application cycle. So big, kind of like fifth disclaimer to those of you who are listening is to, it can be tempting to want to like, get a head start and like really kind of start to iron out some of that content. But I tell students take care of the low hanging fruit first as well. So in your common application, putting in all the schools that you're interested in applying to, and your list can evolve and change. And that's all well and good. But ask, you know, filling out all the questions they ask ahead of time, like Have you visited campus or this or that like so because also sometimes you have additional supplemental essays that come up, if you choose the engineering program, you have to write an extra essay compared to the kids in the arts and sciences one. So I'd say fill out the common app as completely and comprehensively as possible, before really investing that time on those supplemental essays when the timeline you gave I think makes a lot lot more sense. Any final closing words in when it comes to the writing section of a college application? Oftentimes,
Ethan Sawyer 49:28
students are wondering, how do I know when the whole application is done? How do I know that it's time to let go? And the simple exercise that I'll give to students we call the values exercise will link to in the show notes is look your application, put everything your personal statement, activities, list, additional info, supplemental essays, put it on one doc, and then in the comments just named the values that are coming through because it's a great way to see Wow, there is if you've done it, you know, put some energy into it. There is a lot of meat that's coming through and then share it with somebody that you trust. A counselor, someone who knows you really well and go, are there any opportunities here that I may be missing? Are there any values that could be coming through more clearly? Are there any values things that you know about me that aren't coming through in the application yet? Because it could just be one person that you show up to the your best friend is like, you know, what your sense of humor isn't coming through? Yeah. And or had you're so creative. And I kind of it seems like it's not really coming through in the best way. So having someone that you trust, look over it, and again, speaking to the values, that's the sort of those are the nutrients that admission officers are looking for, they can really speak to that and give you that outside perspective. Thanks for listening. We've got a bunch of resources on the show notes page at college essay guy.com/podcast. And hey, if you're looking for pretty much anything related to the stuff we discussed, from my guide to the why us essay to the activities list, chances are you'll find something on our YouTube channel. And don't forget to smash that subscribe button so you can get updates when new videos come out. Bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Show transcript
Ethan Sawyer 0:00 But ultimately, I think the most empowering place to come from is once you get to know what a school is about, where do you vibe with that, so start from you, that's just a much more powerful place to come from than trying to guess, and have the perfect application that's going to present the ideal way. It should really be rooted from your interest and your experience. Hey, friends, welcome back to this whole podcast. This is Part Five In our what colleges want series. And last week, we talked about the personal statement. This week, we're talking about all the other written parts of the application, the activities list, the Additional Information section, and supplemental essays. But you might be wondering, does the order of my activities in my activities list matter? How do you find out what colleges are looking for in their supplemental essays? And what even is the Additional Information section and what goes there? Tom is the host for this one, but I kick it to him a few times, because he's got tons of experience from his time reading applications at Pomona. And a fun fact, you can find a YouTube video version of this podcast on the college as a YouTube channel. Just search for college essay guy, Crash Course supplemental essays on YouTube. I know that's a lot to type in. Well, let's go. Tom Campbell 1:25 So Ethan, welcome back. Thanks, essays, part two. Here we go. Here we go. Alright, so we're here to talk about we talked a lot about the personal statement on the previous episode in this series. But we're going to talk a little bit about the other writing components that are often asked for students as part of the college application process, namely the activities lists, the Additional Information section, or however it's termed, and supplemental essays, which are asked for by a lot of particularly more selective schools on an individual basis that students may have to complete. So in the state of college admissions report, the NACA report that this whole podcast series is designed around, there aren't really actually lines on the report for those things that I just mentioned. So where would you say in terms of that report, in terms of the things that colleges are looking for in students? Where do the additional info section the activities list? And those supplemental essays fall? Or kind of? What's their role there? Yeah. Ethan Sawyer 2:17 So a big one is what we talked about in the second episode of this series of lectures, the third episode, positive character attributes. So one of the things that Tom and Bob and Tricia talked about is, essentially when it comes to showing these positive character attributes, which is a vague term. And it's different for you know, for each school is like, how do you show that you are committed to social justice, if that is something that you feel like will potentially resonate with the school and it's through the essays it's through? In some cases, the activities list like showing what are the different things that you've done to take whatever this quality is to the next level, it ends with the activities list. And in some cases, as we'll talk about, I'm sure in that additional information section where you can give that a little bit of extra context. And it shows those positive character attributes. So that's where it's showing up in one sense. But I have a sense, and I haven't confirmed this with too many college site folks, a few, but I haven't like surveyed. But I have a sense that when we were talking about the college essay, they were just talking about the one personal statement, like they are talking about the college essays more broadly, they're talking about those supplemental essays. So that's my sense that they aren't only talking about just the personal statement, it's like, personal statement, but also the supplemental essays that give us a sense of the student's voice, who they are their writing. Tom Campbell 3:32 Yeah. And even like essays, like no, we're gonna get into this in a second. But essays like the why us essay, which is like why do you want to go to Duke? Right? Yeah, that's shows a level of an applicant's interest, which I'm not saying that that's something that Duke necessarily values. It's just, you know, a hypothetical example. But as this report is shown, many colleges do look at how interested a student is in attending as part of their decision process. So supplemental essays and the OH can definitely a place for that to really same thing with the grades and strength of curriculum. Right, the Additional Information section which again, we're we're gonna get into this in a little bit, is really a place where students can describe the strength of their curriculum and any trends or you know, important Asterix is Asterix this is these Asterix these Asterix C's around grades and courses and the things that were available to them and the things that they were able to take advantage of. Especially when maybe you went you came from a school where maybe there wasn't this plethora, talk about a talk about a college essay word right? When I've seen many, in myria route a myriad Yep. That's definitely a place where you can kind of really contextualize that curriculum and those grades, which are the top top most important things that colleges care about, rightly so. Yeah, a lot of value in these three different spaces that were mentioned. Ethan Sawyer 4:43 Yeah. And I think sometimes students think, well, my grades will speak for themselves. And it's like, well, maybe, and maybe your counselor school report will help contextualize it. But yeah, there's practical stuff that students can do. And there's power and Tom Campbell 4:55 putting it in your own words as well. Totally. Yeah. So I think there's a there's a huge Here's a piece for that. Alright, so now we kind of know where these components fall within the report. But let's talk let's talk a little more in depth about two areas that I recommend students usually really locked down before kind of touching and getting too into the weeds with supplemental essays, which are that Activities List in that additional information section? Well, you may ask, I'll tell you why. Those are things that you're going to be sending to pretty much every college you apply to right are applying on the Common Application, or quest bridge application or coalition application to score shout out to score, we love Colette, we love a collabo moment with score. Those are things you kind of need to do before he can touch those individual school specific writing samples that you may or may not be asked to complete, depending on your college list. So let's start with the activities list. What would you say is kind of like the main job of the activities list the items of the college process, Ethan Sawyer 5:51 if the personal statements about who you are, broadly speaking, the activities list is what you've done. Yep. So this is your brag sheet, this is your chance to be like, I did this to this and this. And here are my particular responsibilities. And here's the impact it had. Here's some specific numbers. And the reason I think students should do all that bragging isn't where students worry about the attention, brag my application, go and brag, brag in your activities list, that is the spot for it. Go nuts, so that you can then show up in jeans and a T shirt as it were in your personal statement and be a little more casual, a little more informal, a little more sassy, not to say you can bring a little sass to your activities list. But for the most part, this is gonna be your resume, it's going to be in some cases, something that, you know, colleges are really looking at in terms of engagement, particularly during summers. But I tell students like you just go for it and your activities list in terms of just saying it's it should be the the most, you know, I don't know, students should definitely this, maybe we'll get into this definitely shouldn't make stuff up. But this should be like the shiniest example of your involvement in named the activity. Yeah, yeah. And Tom Campbell 6:54 I think I think an a way to kind of describe in terms of bragging is that it's contained bragging. Yeah, you know, totally, you know, from a philosophical standpoint, right. You know, it's not just like, I am the Supreme debater, and everyone else is crap. You know, like, you don't want to maybe go to that extreme, but it's also contained, because you don't have a lot of space. Yeah. So that's another thing that I think is just important to touch on is just the format of it. Right? So yeah, you know, how many activities can people put down? How many characters? Yeah, what does that often mean for students? When it comes to like, we'll actually building it out? Yeah. Ethan Sawyer 7:26 What I'll say is like, you have a limited number of activities. And you do not have to fill your entire activities list. So if the UCS asked you for 20 activities, you do not have to list 20 activities. You could listener, as many as are meaningful to you sure, students will sometimes ask, is it more quantity? Is it more quality? Are you more of a student who's a maximalist, who's like, I gotta put all the things, then put all the things? Are you student, he's like, No, I'm a minimalist. I only want to list my three most important ones, or my four most important ones great to do that. There's not like a hard and fast rule for this. But I want to make sure I say this. So I don't forget. Don't make stuff up. Quick story. 15. Second story, I had a student who I worked with awesome. He's telling me all this awesome stuff that he's had great, great, great, great. Turns out he didn't do the stuff that he said he did. He got into some schools, and those schools were like, wait a minute, this doesn't match with this talk to his counselor found out? Oh, wait, the student is actually not being totally truthful. Ended up getting those applications rescinded. So quick note, don't make stuff up in your activities list. Tom Campbell 8:28 Absolutely true. Yes. Don't lie in your activities list. Not a great idea. And in terms of quality and quantity right there. Even schools like MIT, which, you know, at the time of recording this, like, they are only asking for, like five activities, right? And I think it's because they've said very publicly, we've tended to find that, like, you know, students are involved in one off things here and there, or they did a summer program, or they started an activity early on, but we're really most interested in the main ways that they spend their time outside of the classroom. And it tends to be five or less areas. Yeah, Ethan Sawyer 8:57 for most people, this is an important equity thing too, because not every student has the opportunity to go do x, y, z and Q things. And so I'm really a fan shout out to colleges who were doing this, of limiting the number of activities so that students so that it doesn't appear like well, this student had 20 activities and the student had three Well, clearly the student but in some cases, it just in colleges, you know, readers know this admission. Officers are smart, they know that, you know, some students are going to be offered more opportunities than others. But anyway, I would never say like for your activities, less practical advice for students do the best for the opportunities that were given to you. And if you're listening to this in the ninth and 10th grade, check out the resource on our site because you've got lots of different resources about how to find awesome things that you not only will quote unquote look good on a college application, but that'll help you express your core values learn what you care about all these things. So Willington Tom Campbell 9:49 so let's dive into some like frequently asked questions around activities list. So one is about the order. Right? Does it really matter how much if you know I'm involved in debate and athletics like is it going to changed my application in any way if one is listed over the other in terms of the numbering, yeah, Ethan Sawyer 10:05 yes and no. So it does matter in the sense of like, if your readers reading, like, the chances are the things at the top are going to be the things that they assume are gonna be the most important. So I would say, broadly speaking, don't bury at the very bottom, your particular activity that's really important to you. Because if they're reading it, and it's at the bottom, they might wonder like, Well, why did they list this last? If you found it this particular thing? So broadly speaking, put your most important ones at the top, but the ones that are like medium level important in the middle, and then the ones that are less important at the bottom, but don't stress this is you talk about sweat it and forget it. Yeah, don't stress about should I put this five or six and spend like a week thinking about it? Because this is going to be something that the reader is going to read pretty quickly, right? Yeah, Tom Campbell 10:44 I'd say like, think about the theme that someone reading it quickly is going to be taken away from you. And I think order has a has a role there. Like, say, for example, you're really into coding and stem and whatnot, right? If someone's going through the activities list, and it's like, the first eight activities are all about that. And then there's like two at the end that's like, I'm also in drama club, and it's like 40 hours a week, and you're like, dang, like, do you really care about all that? Mostly, it kind of sends a message that it's like a throwaway, right? When you have all these other things that are front loaded at the beginning. And totally, you know, you kind of just save some things at the end of it kind of just felt like you could tack them on. Yeah. And they're not really as like meaningful things to you. Yeah, I Ethan Sawyer 11:24 kind of think this is this was like a mixtape, when this is going to totally get students to overthink this, but a mixtape, by the way is a CD. Yeah, what is it compact this, but like you're making a Spotify playlist? And it's sort of like, alright, well, if all the tracks kind of have the same theme, cool, okay. But do you want to maybe put in in the third one to break up all of the stuff that you've got related to engineering or whatever it is, with another activity, or something I've seen some students do this where their application is heavily computer science skewed. And they go with another activity related to service as their number one thing or their activities list. So think about this a little bit, don't obsess? Tom Campbell 11:57 Exactly. One question we get a lot is like, does it matter? If I haven't been involved in all my activities? Like all four years? Like, should I still be putting the things that I did in ninth and 10th grade, even if I've kind of like, hung up my cape? So Ethan Sawyer 12:11 again, I kind of go back to minimalist, maximalist, like, if you're somebody who, let's say, well, actually, let me give a specific example. There was a student years ago that I, you know, met new worked with, and the student didn't have a ton of things, and was like, had two or three things and was like, I feel like this one off thing, this one week experience doesn't really show a lot. But I'm like, you know, there isn't a lot on your application. So I could see actually including that in that situation. Whereas some students will have a bunch of activities, and it's already loaded full. They're like, do I really need to include this thing that they did for one week? And it's not necessarily but I come back to that, like, if you feel like you're gonna feel sad, if you didn't include all the things, then you know, include it. If you feel like you're the student who's like, No, I only want to speak because it's important to me to just focus on the specific ones, the very squeaky mean sweet ones, then great do that. Yeah. Tom Campbell 13:01 Sounds like a plan. So another big thing that we get questions a lot about, and a lot of overthinking, I would say about is like, should it go in the activities list or the honors, slash awards section? A reason why Ethan Sawyer 13:13 I think people get tripped up about those students is that it says academic honors? My so different counselors are different strokes for different counselor, folks. But I feel like it's okay. It doesn't matter too much is my answer is like when someone's reading it, they're not going to be like, wait, I mean, did you ever have a moment at Pomona where you like that one? In the words it should have been? No. So it's sort of like, it doesn't really matter, as long as the what I like to say general rule as long as it makes sense. And as long as somebody a sensitive, caring, intelligent human can read it be like, Yeah, that makes sense. And you can justify why goes in that section. Great. But one of the biggest questions I get is, should I go in the activities are additional info or rewards? Yeah, make it make sense. Tom Campbell 13:53 Alright, last frequently asked question before turning on to the next section we're going to do additional info is how much did I describe an activity versus show like what I've learned or how I've grown from it? Right? So that's something that I think can be hard and a delicate balance of like, do I need to actually explain what this is like basketball, shoot a ball out of move? Like versus, you know, maybe other things you did? Yeah, as part of the team. Ethan Sawyer 14:20 This is where I'll go back to what I was talking about in the first episode, where it was like, there's the common and then the uncommon thing. So if you're, it's pretty obvious that you showed up to practices like attended regular practices, you can probably delete that. Yeah, look at that values list and go, What are some other values that you gained while you were in that activity? Now, I'm a huge fan of like, strong verbs to show the different the range of things you've done, but at the service of showing different values. So show that you are responsible for taking minutes. Okay, cool, that shows that you are organized, you know, served as liaison for this thing. Okay, cool. That shows another side of you. But essentially, and we'll link to this in the show notes. You can write these activities list descriptions in a short way that's going to show have different values and stuff beyond the obvious stuff. Sidenote, if there is something, and we'll talk about this in a second, in the activities where you're just like, I can't describe all of the amazingness of my involvement in, you know, whatever it was, then you can put that in additional info. So don't feel like you have to put everything in the activities list, for Tom Campbell 15:18 sure. That kind of like decision may shape decision making matrix, the muffle that I like to give students and equip them to think about okay, is, is this an activity where I need to, like, describe what it is? Or what how what I do is explain or expound, like, so do i do like explaining activities? Say it's like a new initiative that you brought to your school and like the title of the club is like, happy wood club? What does that mean? I'm curious, right? That might be wanting you to explain us, the 150 explained and probably explain that why, you know, like, is it Woodworking is it? Who knows, right? Like, what's the happy part of it? That's an explaining example, right? Where it's like the name of it alone is not it's not a typical activity that's in every other high school. And it's like your baby, like Sorry, that you maybe started that might be or just club organization you do outside that, like the name doesn't really translate this solely to what you do or isn't readily obvious. And then expound, right, like, so those are the activities like the basketball like theater, like mock trial like newspaper, where it's like, yeah, the person reading that knows if you're a newspaper, you probably contribute to articles in some way, right? Like, right writing articles for a newspaper that is read by students, right? What's your particular role expand and kind of like elaborate on how you spent your time in that particular activity? With athletics, right? Like, are you the mom friend who carries the band aids to practices for the people whose kid their knee? Do you create the pump up playlist before every game and people listened to it on the bus, again, you have 150 characters. And you know, this might change depending on the evolution of the different application types that are out there. But in general, you don't have a ton of space to kind of write every single bullet of how you spend your time. But when you look over the activities list as a theme you're like, is this showing multiple sides of who I am and how I contribute to different teams and clubs and communities total and kind of just thinking about the collective body of work of your activities list in terms of was communicating about you and how you spend your time and your unique role and contribution to something totally. Alright, so. So now let's talk about the Additional Information section. So this is often I'd say, like, both an underutilized and misunderstood section in the in the college application process? Because essentially, what it is, is it's a play space in your application to kind of really elaborate or expand on whatever you see fit, I would argue, and I would think you would as well, Ethan, that there are certain experiences elaborations context details that are oftentimes more helpful to people in admissions than others. So in that vein, what would you say is kind of like the best way that a student can approach a whether or not it makes sense to even fill in anything in the Additional Info section at all? And be what are kind of some of the big buckets that oftentimes are good things to potentially include in your additional info section, if it's relevant to your experience. Yeah, Ethan Sawyer 18:09 first of all, I want to, we have to start with the qualifier that like, you do not have to put anything in this section, you can get into a great college students get into great colleges every year, putting nothing in this section. In fact, some schools, some high schools have a policy of like, we don't use that section, you're fine. No one's gonna like you're gonna gonna get docked points, because you didn't put anything in there. Having said that, there's some cool opportunities here. So number one, the one thing that I mentioned earlier, if you want to expand on something that you've talked about in your activities list, because you're just like, gosh, there's so much more than I did here. You want to use straightforward bullet points. That's a great use. You mentioned the explained their explanations for things you got involved with that you feel like, just really didn't get their airtime. Or maybe there are particular acronyms that you want to explain. There's also extenuating circumstances that could relate to so many different things, whether it's complications at work, and you know, my dad lost his job. And that had, you know, certain impacts on your family or family member hospitalized, you are hospitalized and you have these sort of like extra challenges, things that you're like is that my personal statement, we talked about this in the other episode, you can put this in your in your Additional Information section, including, and we'll do a whole mini series on this, including describing mental health challenges. Sometimes students feel like I have to put that in my personal statement, not necessarily you can do a more straightforward explanation of mental health challenges, dealing with depression, anxiety, these kinds of things. Here's the challenge that I experienced, here's the effect. Here's what I did about it. Here's what I learned. Again, we'll link in the show notes to guides on this because we'll be creating these in the coming weeks and months. But essentially, these are the this is the place where once they've read your application, read your personal statement, read your activities list, probably have read your supplemental essays, which we'll talk about in a second. And they're like, Alright, you're kind of on borrowed time as it were, or it's sort of like Hector, what else? What else you got? What am I missing? What am I what else you got? What am I forgetting? Tom Campbell 20:04 I usually read the additional info section before supplemental essays. But did you? Yeah, just because it's part of the Common Application. Right? So Oh, that makes sense. Do you just kind of work chronology strokes Ethan Sawyer 20:14 for different college admission, folks. So you read the additional info? First, Tom Campbell 20:18 right after that, we'll be right after the personal statement as a basically, after everything else that's included in the Common Application. That's the next that makes us step after bavetta supplemental school specific things, Ethan Sawyer 20:29 and then we're missing anything, what am I missing from that for the additional? So Tom Campbell 20:31 I think that I think is generally I would say the, the additional info section kind of covers four buckets, I think you've got three of them. So one is like additional expanded activities. The second would be extenuating circumstances, health challenges, family challenges, you know, etc. Third, would be things around like lived experience and identity. And the fourth one, I'd say is kind of academic context. So maybe, could you talk a little bit more about Yes, I can, too. So maybe, yeah, for people who, you know, say you're coming from an environment where it's not, there's not a really high college going culture and go and talk about it only. Okay, go. So say you're coming from an environment where most of the people who graduated from your high school end up going to community college, or they go to trade school, and your goals are different than that, you know, you're looking to go on to four year colleges, maybe there isn't as much of a infrastructure in your school, you know, there's a counselor that really can't be with people or, you know, the students that the counselor is meeting with our students who are doing, you know, with a teenage pregnancy, or who are chronically absent or things like that, that's really helpful. Context is the word that oftentimes people who work in admissions use for someone who's reading your application to know about the environment that you're coming from your awareness of, you know, kind of different elements of the college process, how formative that's been for you, how much maybe initiatives you've had to take to kind of self learn self Teach Yourself, utilize resources? I Ethan Sawyer 21:53 want to give kind of examples of those. Yeah, absolutely. So some specific examples. And we'll link to this in the show notes. But there was a student who I worked with a few years ago, who was the he got X score on the on standardized tests on the SATs, and it was the highest score. Like if I just looked at that score, I would have been like, okay, you know, it's pretty good score. But he's like, that's the highest score in my class, that wouldn't have been anywhere else in his application. So that was important context. Another piece of context. He scored a three on his AP physics, which is passing but barely has done a force, not a five. It's a three, but he's like, I'm the first student in my school to pass AP physics. And like, Yo, I want to know about that. And I want that additional context. Another student year before that, it was coincidently friends with a student, his college counselor left or I don't know, was fired or something. And there was no college counselor. So he went, and I don't know if that actually he was first episode of the podcast. He went and created his like, basically became the college counselor, right and resources, started sharing, here's what goes in your activities list. Here's what goes on your additional info became the temporary college counselor until they found a new one. I wouldn't have known that kind of stuff. And it certainly would have been the counselor that because he didn't have a college counselor. So these kinds of things go in there. The other thing you mentioned grades, you know, this is a student who the first student that I mentioned, had some not awesome grades, part of the challenges that he'd experienced, that had led him to getting and I'm not talking about like C's and DS, but he had grades that he was like, because he was applying to highly selective schools that he wasn't like, he's like these, this isn't my best work. Part of that he's like, was a result of some of these challenges that I was facing? Tom Campbell 23:30 Yeah. Other things to avoid? I mean, I would say, I mean, really asking yourself, like, is this an important detail for someone else to know? Yeah, like, a lot of times, I'd say, the most unnecessary use of this section is that easy, oh, we kind of put those categories of what's helpful, but like, the expanded resume is not quite that helpful, unless you're like, unless it's a club or organization that again, like evolved over time, and like, hey, when I started, it was really different. And then I ended up getting 5000 people across the state to really, you know, implement this in their schools. Like, that's kind of like a story and like a growth arc and a real area of initiative that's really helpful for someone on the other end to know about how you saw that through but, you know, you don't need five bullet points about working, you know, on the school newspaper, it's, it's pretty self explanatory, for the most part. So don't feel pressured to elaborate on every single activity that you've done. Because, in fact, a lot of times unless you're adding like new information or unexpected details, it just is not needed. Ethan Sawyer 24:36 Yeah, I'll sometimes advocate for the clone test where you like, imagine cloning yourself version A of you submits this application version B of you submits this other one that you're considering, including, does that make a big difference? Like do you accept Student B, you know, a version B with this inclusion in it because a lot of times students will do that and be like, Oh, it kind of doesn't matter. Yeah. And don't come to that conclusion themselves. Tom Campbell 24:57 The last question, I'll ask about it. ditional Information section is. So unlike the activities list where there's kind of like a format that's built into the forum, right, like, here's the position, here's the organization, here's the description. The additional info section is completely blank. So there's no kind of really default formatting things that sudesh should do. So should there be headings? Should there be bullets? How should students break up the kind of different things that they may want to expand on? Should they include things like links to a portfolio or article in the newspaper or a video, you know, if your local TV station about this great Autism Awareness rally that you put on or whatnot write great about things like that? Ethan Sawyer 25:36 So yeah, we'll we'll put a link in the show notes. So you can actually see the format. But essentially, headers are awesome. If you're gonna give me a big giant paragraph, give me the gist of it at the top. So like, explanation for math grade, you know, like, put that at the top so that I kind of know what's in that paragraph, make it readable, make it skimmable essentially, like label what I call like a labeling your boxes, like label each of these things. And then you know it depending on on formatting, sometimes students really fuss about this, you can export the Additional Information section, so you can look at it later to make sure it's readable, but essentially just make this as readable as possible. Yeah. And yeah, we'll link in the show notes. Yeah, and see what that looks. You know, Tom Campbell 26:15 I think things like, for example, like leadership highlights could be a big header that you have there, or like academic contexts, you know, kind of like even the buckets that we mentioned here, you could theoretically have those be the headers for your Additional Info section just to help the person moving through it in that time crunch that they have really get a sense for kind of what those buckets are that you felt compelled to expand on totally. So let's switch gears now to the supplemental essays, which, you know, are not required by all colleges, right, I'd say actually, the vast majority of us colleges and universities don't really have any requirements, like if you finish your activities list, your personal statement, and maybe you're just if you want, you're good you're buying or selling. But many more students, I would say who come to us for help, are particularly interested in schools that are more selective. And those are the ones that often have additional essay requirements, which are called supplemental essays, they typically tend to be shorter, right? So I'd say anywhere between, you know, 100, to maybe 500 words, unless it's like your Cornell and Cornell 650 word why US business as of this recording. So the big distinction that I like to tell students with supplemental essays, is that these are essays that were designed by the colleges themselves, which is a big distinction from the personal statement, which are, there's a default list of questions included in the Common Application, or quest bridge or coalition. And pretty much anything you write about that has to do with yourself and shows skills, qualities, values and interests. It's green checkmark, like it fits the prompt, right? Because there's even a prompt that's topic of your choice. So with the school specific supplemental essays, can you walk us through or our dear listeners through some of the big buckets or categories that most of these essays tend to fall into thematically? Ethan Sawyer 27:56 Sure, yeah. So some of the biggest ones that you'll tend to find is, you know, you mentioned the why us essay. And this is essentially, the essay where you're saying, here are the reasons whether you've got 100 words, or whether you've got 650 words, that I believe you and I will be a great fit. And we'll link to a whole guide of this in the show notes. But essentially, what you're trying to do is to say, Hey, I've done my research, and I really feel like, you know, not just I feel like, but I know that you would be a good fit because of these particular reasons. And so you almost can't get too specific in a wias essay. So talking about the particular club, the particular professor, all of this stuff is not only okay, it's encouraged. So I think the biggest thing that students when they start thinking about why us essays are like, Can I mention those things? And it's like, yes, absolutely. And I think this is a good thing to think about is this is actually a research essay, like you probably don't know, you probably can't name eight reasons off the top of your head that you want to go to Michigan, you're probably like, Well, my grandfather went there, I'm pretty sure. And I look good and blue, and I go, Go Cats, no, don't say Go Cats. That's Northwestern, Go Blue. But quick, sidenote, make sure you do research some of those things, and you don't end up messing up the mascot. There's a whole, you know, guide, I've got a whole separate YouTube video on this. But that's one of the biggest ones. And again, it can be as short as 100 words, maybe now, arguably, there's a 50 word one out there, that could change. But you know, essentially, if you got 100 words, it's okay to be straightforward. You can be factual to the point. If you got 300 words, you can be a little bit of creative, but really, if you want to get the information in there, if you're getting into the more of the 450 500 600 word range. Yeah, you should probably include stuff around your major. I mean, you should probably do that in your BIOS anyway. But you can be a little bit more creative, but that's one of the big ones. Another big one that I think colleges often look at is the y major essay. And the y major essay is essentially why do you want to study what you want to study and the again will link to a guide below, but the short version of this one is What are the moments experiences that you've had? Ideally within the last, I would say, three to five years, because I think sometimes students start with like, the very first time I picked up a Lego. And it's like, Well, okay, you could mention that. But probably you want to focus on the most recent stuff. But what are those experiences that have helped you develop skills and qualities that will eventually serve you in that future career to the web, there's the Y major one, and then the one of the ones that's become the most popular, and we'll talk about some other minor ones, maybe. But the one of the ones which are most popular is, broadly speaking, what we'll call the identities or diversity essay, and part of why we are talking about this is that when the Supreme Court decision to ban race, conscious admission came out, colleges aren't allowed to ask specifically about students race, and they're really wanting to enroll a diverse class, and diverse in many senses of the word, but they want to know about your identities. So what we saw is like a lot of colleges added essays that asked about, specifically in different folks freeze in different ways. Specifically, what are different identities that you possess, you know, experiences, cultural traditions that are important to you? And how will this contribute to a college campus? Because remember, that these readers are looking at specifically, like, they're trying to build a class, and they're trying to see, okay, who are we bringing in? And how is it gonna vibe with, you know, our campus vibe. And in those situations, keep in mind that it's, it's you're kind of doing a weaving back and forth, you're going back and forth between here's something about me, and here's a specific way that it's going to connect with you. So even in these essays that aren't specifically why us like, why do you want to attend a particular school? If the college is asking, and something about your identities? And that you would bring to the our community? Get specific with how on that campus community, you would bring that in? I would say do that, even if, in some cases, even if they're not asking for it? Like, because college is gonna be able to make those connections between yo, who is the student? And who are they going to be on our campus, you want them to be able to visualize you walking around on campus? The last one, I would say is extracurricular activities. Because I think some schools want to know, okay, beyond all the stuff, you listen to activities list, is there something else that you spend a lot of time doing, or they'll say, pick one of the things you spend a lot of time doing and expand on that. So that's the extracurricular activity essay. And it might be 300 words, it might be longer, but it's your opportunity to say something that isn't already in your activities list and isn't already in your personal statement. It's another reason like that the existence of that essay is another reason why I'll often tell students don't pick a mean extracurricular activities or personal statement topic, because you might have an opportunity in another essay to write about that extracurricular activity. So that's, those are some of the main ones, for sure. Tom Campbell 32:39 Definitely. And there's like ad hoc ones here. And there. You know, it makes it a little challenging for students, because we have a streamlining strategy I call the Super essay strategy that we'll get into into a bit. But those are the buckets I'd say are the most common was a student see, but every now and then there's like, really unique, interesting, original questions based on a college's mission statement, or based on, you know, an alum who went there, you know, had a certain quote Ethan Sawyer 33:03 or whatnot, when you say a little bit that because you you had some experience, yeah, helping to write these supplemental essays? And what did you learn in that process that Tom Campbell 33:11 might be useful for Yeah, so I think in terms of understanding the why behind why College has even asked this is really understanding that just because college asked a certain question, it doesn't. Correlation is not always causation, I guess, is what I would say. So one is, say, for example, like a college asks, like, why are you interested in attending here? That doesn't mean that they necessarily care all that much about demonstrated interest in the traditional sense, right. So there are selective colleges that actually don't really care if you visited campus. They don't talk about that. That's not something that that's discussed. In your candidacy. You don't quote unquote, get points for that. Yeah. But they want to understand because they have such a high volume of applicants. Why you want to go there? And why is that, like you said, the research behind your rationale of why this college is on a place Yeah, in the case can't just be you're ranked highly for computer science, which is what I want to do, and it's in a sunny location, and I'm sick of the snow right there. That's not going to really like oh, we gotta take this kid. They are. They really are gonna just knock the department off the socks. Right. So that is something that I think is one thing I'll mention is that the questions can be telling about what a school values, but also can just be a way to help distinguish applicants in a pool where many students are going to look very similar. Ethan Sawyer 34:27 Could you say a little about institutional priorities as Yes. Tom Campbell 34:30 So I would say find that for folks who don't know what that were. Yeah. So institutional priorities are it's interesting because they're actually not a category on the state of college admissions report, which I thought was very interesting. And I was like, if that was added in, I wonder where that would rake in the in the lineup. I wonder if it'd be positive character attribute level or TOEFL? This is because so Oh, yeah. So these are particularly I'd say, really impactful at these more selective colleges. So typically, the more selective school is, the more their admission process is dictated beyond the typical components that are included in your app. So the grades, potentially scores your activities. The more selective school is, the more powers that be, essentially, the Board of Trustees, or college president are trickling down and informing an admissions office. This is the vision that we have for our school going forward. We are blessed with a very deep application pool with very talented students. So we can be more choosy and try to bolster areas of our campus that we want to allocate more attention to, we can increase students from a particular region in the United States that we want more alumni representation in, you know, going forward in the future. So these priorities are really fluid. Some different categories include athletes, musicians, dancers, students who are coming from underrepresented backgrounds, students who are first generation to college colleges that are trying to be more equitable and turn back time from being more exclusionary to particular student demographics, right. A lot of times, these are rooted in the strategic growth and the strategic mission for a college that is set by people beyond the admissions office, those that college leadership. So I would say supplemental essays are often heavily influenced by those priorities, which are fluid and changing and the admissions team has kind of given an update each year about okay, we're doing well with students in the humanities, you know, in the past couple of years, like that's not going to be maybe as high of a priority one year, these are all just hypothetical examples, right. But those play a really huge role in college admission processes more broadly. And men in particular, I'd say supplemental essays are a place where colleges often write questions to source material for priorities that are important to them, right? So if a college asks why major questions, oftentimes, maybe it's because they have certain majors that are what sometimes people refer to as impacted, or really high demand, and they have to be more choosy. And students have to have a really compelling rationale as to why their approach to computer science is more or maybe unconventional, or they want to solve particular causes, or they have this interdisciplinary angle to it. And maybe that's going to help students at a school where there's just a ton of students who are applying to particular high demand programs. And Ethan Sawyer 37:13 for those students who are this thing about institutional priorities? No, there is no such resource, there's no way of really flat out year to year because they're always changing. Yeah, sorry. It's just one of those black boxes of the gas admission. And Tom Campbell 37:25 the reason why is because people in admissions are concerned of people crafting applications that are meant to meet those priorities. And if you're a high school student in ninth grade, you're not going to know if you know, say a college does value your major selection a lot, you're not going to know which ones are the most in demand. By the time you're applying as a senior like our society changes very rapidly, right? My experience at Pomona early on when I first started, there wasn't a huge swell of students who are interested in applying to politics. So it was actually an area early on that like students applying to that major, right kind of like a decent bump later in our process. Just coincidentally, Yale, there are other schools where political majors are a big part of like the school's branding and identity and this and that, and they're very popular, so a lot of kids would just flood their applications towards it. But after the 2016 election, more and more students started to get more politically engaged. Gen Z is a more political, politically motivated generation, especially when it comes to equity and justice causes. So we started to see more and more students like that in our pool, and it just became less. It was supply and demand we just had, it became less of a tipping point, we had less of an edge than it was early on. So you can't craft your high school experience with the sense that certain priorities will be fixed from year to year. But anyway, another example of this is like, even among you know, I worked at Pomona, right? It's one of five undergraduate Claremont Colleges, all of the Claremont Colleges had their own supplemental essays that were asked individually and were distinctive from each one. But on paper, right, we're all one square mile, we're all right next to each other students can take classes, all the different schools, they're all small liberal arts, colleges, they all have study abroad and like a range of majors. But each of us had our own different missions and identity that influenced why certain questions were asked when it comes to supplemental essays. So Claremont McKenna, for example. I know from talking with the admissions officers, there's their questions are very influenced by the board and the board's concerns about the school. So they have questions kind of that has to do with essentially topics around talking over differences. Or, you know, that's that's actually an essay that many colleges asked, you know, talk about a time where you had a disagreement with someone and what was that like and how did you did you stand your ground and defend yourself or where was your perspective changed? That was something that the board was concerned that more and more students were coming in with laser focused ideas and, and not being willing to hear another side, and they didn't want a campus full of students that were like that right. Pitzer College is really rooted in core values when it comes to environmental sustainability goals. more engagement. And they have a supplemental essay specifically related to how students live out their core values. And it's really big, like if students don't have a compelling rationale. There was an example that was shared with me about a student talking about intercultural understanding. And they wrote about soccer and how they have like, I have teammates on my team who are Mexican, then we burritos and that's how I am, you know, culturally responsive, right? That's not going to be you know, as in line with schools values as maybe other students who are applying. And then we had places like Pomona right, you know, where for us academic interest is and still continues to be from my understanding a big area that the school is hoping to keep a sense of balance. And because there's this range of it was the, it was the Claremont college with the widest range of majors. But there are certain departments that would get more interest than others. And but you know, have enough butts and seats and to have enough departments happy with students coming in with all these different interests. There were some areas where we needed to be a little more choosy. So we had an academic interest statement. Well, what are you interested in studying here? Not all the other colleges had something like that they didn't care as much. Yeah. So it really speaks to the difference from school to school to school, even ones that have a lot of commonalities, because there's different pressure points or pain points related to their application pool, their history, their mission statement, and lots of different factors. Ethan Sawyer 41:19 Yeah, and I love that. And practically speaking, like, students who are listening to this wondering, well, what do I What can I do? How do I know it's not, it's a total black box that you can actually go to the school's website, you don't find their mission statement, you can find their values, you can often find some kind of strategic report that the school is putting together, so you get a sense of what these are. But part of why they don't reveal these, to your point is they want to be fair, you know, they want to be equitable. They want to give everybody a shot at answering these questions. So give it your best shot, if you wanted a little bit of research great, but don't obsess over figuring out precisely what the institutional priorities are. Because ultimately, what's I think the most empowering place to come from is once you get to know what a school is about, where do you vibe with that? So start from you, that's just a much more powerful place to come from than trying to guess, and have the perfect application that's going to present in the in the in the ideal way, it should really come be rooted from your interests Tom Campbell 42:12 and your experience. Yeah, yeah. And hey, we have shout out to our team who put together 80 Plus supplemental essay guides each year that aren't audiology specific, it's an incredible resource that we offer to students who are applying. And at the top of every single article is usually a link to the school's mission statement, their strategic plan, if it's available. And so it's great just for the schools that are on your list, you know, before you sit down and actually draft out those essays. And you know, we're going to get to reusing essays in a second, which is a very important time Efficiency Act that we want to put out there. That's very much greenlit by us. But it's still, I think, impactful to have a sense of an individual College's mission and growth and where they're, where they're headed, and where their minds are at in terms of their leadership. Because if you can make your case, a case for yourself that hey, hey, me over here, like I'm that type of kid that you are really looking for more of on your campus, and in this new era for you. Like that's a great place to be in an application pool, if you can, if you can make that case. Yeah. One example. I'll give you that real quick is Harvey Mudd. So I talked about Pitzer talked about Claremont McKenna, we talked about Pomona shout out to Scripps. I don't have an example for them right now, but are another Claremont College. Harvey Mudd questions are particularly around kind of like how your identity and where you come from, let's influence the achievements that you want to make in STEM, because Harvey Mudd is a school with eight measures, all in STEM fields. And Harvey must mission statement is rooted in, you know, scientists, who have a broad range of a sense of areas outside of that discipline who have a sense of the broad, you know, impact of their achievements and initiatives on society. So you can't just be going in saying, like, Oh, I like coding and initiatives, because it's creative and problem solving is fun. Like, they are specifically saying to students with the way the question was written, like, we want to know, like, what populations you want to help, right, you know, with achievements and stem, how has your background influence the things you want to spend your time doing or the, you know, legacy you want to have in this area? Right. I'm really, really mood rooted in that colleges mission. I'm the vein though of you know, it is very, especially a very long college list, right? It's, it's difficult to have every single essay write and be 100%. Unique, right. And I also would argue that it's not necessary. There are a lot of similar phrasings of questions that students will start to notice where it's totally okay to artfully recycle some beautifully wordsmith work that you have totally So Ethan, can you walk us through a little bit of what's called the Super essay? Because Reggie. So Ethan Sawyer 44:45 the idea here is that once you create your essay tracker, and your essay tracker, we'll link in the show notes is basically just a spreadsheet with all the essays you need to write. If you're applying to, let's say, 10 schools, and it's, let's say, two or three essays per school, sometimes it's more sometimes less, that's you're looking at a list of like 20 to 30 schools. So how do you save 2040 hours in this process, you write what we call super essays. So the way this works is, if you've got a school that's asking you about what's an identity that's important to you. And then another one asking you about an activity that's important to you. And another one that's just broadly saying, Is there anything else that you feel like would be important for us to know about your application? Yeah, you don't have to write three separate essays and find out what is that super topic that's going to work for each of those. So let's say you're into improv comedy in high school, well, that's connected to an identity that you have maybe an activity that's important to you, and something else that's not revealed elsewhere in your application. So you're basically looking for what is that topic and then the way that practically speaking, you write it is put it on the top of a Google Doc, all the prompts that you could potentially write this for? And don't necessarily write the essay yet. But do the brainstorm for content that's going to work for each of those? Because my argument is that not that's not only going to make it may save you time, it's going to make for a better essay. Yeah. Because then when that school that's asking you about what's an activity that's important to you not only hears about an activity that's important to you, but this identity, the era, you're just adding so much more, that's going to enrich that essay. So rather than spend 10 hours on one essay, 10 hours, 555, spend 20 hours on a really good super essay, and reuse it, reuse it, reuse it. Yeah, Tom Campbell 46:21 that's why I'd say before diving in, like going school to school one by one, having all those prompts on a list guy. And and what and seeing what's being asked is really, really, I'd say a step that you want to you want to take beforehand, because it's going to end up saving you a lot of time and angst to alarm, especially if you have a long college list, which we don't necessarily endorse. But we know from experience, that's not always as happens. One caveat, I would say about Super essays that I want to put out there is just that, unlike the personal statement, where you can pretty much write about anything related to yourself. And it's fair game. Remember that colleges are very intentional about the way that these questions were written and what they're asking. Yeah. So if you see a question, you're like, this is kind of like an extracurricular and it's like, not really, and you're just like, let's just flop this in and hope it works. It's quote unquote, good enough. You really want to make sure you're answering the question that's written? Totally, Ethan Sawyer 47:14 that's something that is confusing about the process. But students are often like, the prompt seems important, is it? And for the personal statement, I argue that it's less important because you've got topic of your choice. And Rarely will a reader be like or be forever. Wait, they wrote for three, I think two is a better prompts. No. Now, granted, if you pick prompts three, for the personal statement, separate from supplemental essays, like yeah, definitely answer that. But for supplemental essays, the prompt really matters. And, to your point, like make sure you're answering it and don't just throw in a white major essay, if it's a why, as I say, because you just happen to have a white major essay. Yeah, Tom Campbell 47:51 I guess what would you say are any common mistakes that you think students should avoid, and the some of the things that we mentioned, when it comes to supplemental essays may be going astray or not being as impactful as they can be? I'd say that's the latter of probably where I see more, more mistakes. It's also the supplemental essays, especially like, it pains me sometimes when students spend a lot of time on them early on in their process, because it's like, you need to take care of the things that are sent to all of your schools, personal statement, additional info section activities, list, A and P, most of these essays are actually not available or updated until after August 1, which is when the Common Application goes live for that particular application cycle. So big, kind of like fifth disclaimer to those of you who are listening is to, it can be tempting to want to like, get a head start and like really kind of start to iron out some of that content. But I tell students take care of the low hanging fruit first as well. So in your common application, putting in all the schools that you're interested in applying to, and your list can evolve and change. And that's all well and good. But ask, you know, filling out all the questions they ask ahead of time, like Have you visited campus or this or that like so because also sometimes you have additional supplemental essays that come up, if you choose the engineering program, you have to write an extra essay compared to the kids in the arts and sciences one. So I'd say fill out the common app as completely and comprehensively as possible, before really investing that time on those supplemental essays when the timeline you gave I think makes a lot lot more sense. Any final closing words in when it comes to the writing section of a college application? Oftentimes, Ethan Sawyer 49:28 students are wondering, how do I know when the whole application is done? How do I know that it's time to let go? And the simple exercise that I'll give to students we call the values exercise will link to in the show notes is look your application, put everything your personal statement, activities, list, additional info, supplemental essays, put it on one doc, and then in the comments just named the values that are coming through because it's a great way to see Wow, there is if you've done it, you know, put some energy into it. There is a lot of meat that's coming through and then share it with somebody that you trust. A counselor, someone who knows you really well and go, are there any opportunities here that I may be missing? Are there any values that could be coming through more clearly? Are there any values things that you know about me that aren't coming through in the application yet? Because it could just be one person that you show up to the your best friend is like, you know, what your sense of humor isn't coming through? Yeah. And or had you're so creative. And I kind of it seems like it's not really coming through in the best way. So having someone that you trust, look over it, and again, speaking to the values, that's the sort of those are the nutrients that admission officers are looking for, they can really speak to that and give you that outside perspective. Thanks for listening. We've got a bunch of resources on the show notes page at college essay guy.com/podcast. And hey, if you're looking for pretty much anything related to the stuff we discussed, from my guide to the why us essay to the activities list, chances are you'll find something on our YouTube channel. And don't forget to smash that subscribe button so you can get updates when new videos come out. Bye Transcribed by https://otter.ai
